JimPhreak Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 Thanks for the recommendations and for the info regarding the cache drive. I may put a cache drive in it for a week when I actually bring the backup server to the same location as my main server so that I can do a quicker initial backup since I have about 10TB to backup. Then once it's initially synced, I will remove the cache since the incremental backups after that won't be that big to require one. I get what you are going for here, but in your case I think a cache might slow down your transfer process. The issue is that no cache drive you can buy will be able to hold the full 10 TB you plan to transfer (and likely your cache will be much smaller than 10 TB). The way the cache drive works is that all data is first written to that cache (unless you have the share set to not use the cache) and then at a specified time once a day that data is copied to the array. It doesn’t really speed up the transfers to the array it just hides it from the user by making it a two step process, where the user only sees the first faster transfer. But this is where your problem arises, if you fill the cache you won’t be able to continue copying data to the array, this either means you have to divide your initial transfer into many smaller transfers that are less than the size of your cache and then manually invoke the mover script to free the space again (but also making you not only wait for the transfer to the cache but also wait for the data to be written to the array) or only transfer a smaller amount then your cache each day (you’ll only feel this transfer) and not feel the write to the array. If you want to speed up the initial transfer your best bet is to do it without enabling a parity disk on the backup server. Once the initial transfer is complete then enable your parity disk and calculate parity for the first time. Agree with gundamguy => adding a cache for the initial backup would almost certainly make that backup take LONGER than it would without it. You could, as he suggested, simply do the entire initial backup without a parity drive assigned (so the writes would be at "disk speed") => the only disadvantage of that is there's no fault tolerance until you get the parity drive assigned and the parity sync done. Ahh that makes complete sense. I was originally planning to manually run the mover after transferring say 2TB of data at a time but I didn't take into account like you said that it will still be slow transferring from the cache drive to the protected array. I think my best bet is to run the initial backup without a parity drive then. Will that cause any issues with me setting up rsync in the future so that the shares are identical in terms of what files are on what drives? Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 ... I think my best bet is to run the initial backup without a parity drive then. Will that cause any issues with me setting up rsync in the future so that the shares are identical in terms of what files are on what drives? No issues at all. The rsync setup (and for that matter everything you do) is completely independent of whether or not the array has a parity drive. You could, for that matter, NEVER assign a parity drive ... although I certainly don't recommend that, as your backup would then not be fault tolerant. Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 ... I think my best bet is to run the initial backup without a parity drive then. Will that cause any issues with me setting up rsync in the future so that the shares are identical in terms of what files are on what drives? No issues at all. The rsync setup (and for that matter everything you do) is completely independent of whether or not the array has a parity drive. You could, for that matter, NEVER assign a parity drive ... although I certainly don't recommend that, as your backup would then not be fault tolerant. Yea I definitely want parity on my backup. I see no reason not to once I have my first initial backup completed. Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Ok, I'm still in the market for a MoBo. The ASRock board that was proposed here is nice (I've used many ASRock boards and like them a lot) but it doesn't have enough SATA ports. Therefore I'd have to spend $100+ on a another IBM Serveraid M1015. Plus, I'd really like a board that supports IPMI because I'm so used to it I don't think I could live without. Am I relegated to another SuperMicro board? Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 It IS tough to beat the quality and features of the SuperMicro boards ... that's certainly the best way to ensure you get everything you want on the board Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 It IS tough to beat the quality and features of the SuperMicro boards ... that's certainly the best way to ensure you get everything you want on the board Man that's gonna kill my budget haha. Because then I'll need ECC RAM and an additional RAID card. If I'm going to have to spend that kind of money, what are your thoughts on this board/cpu combo? I had looked at these ASRock boards back when I was building my original server 1.5 years ago because I wanted to go SFF but they weren't out at the time and I didn't want to wait. Any reason not to use this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157419 Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I can't think of any reason not to use that board. As you probably know, I'm a big fan of mini-ITX systems ... I really like that form factor. And the Avoton's are VERY nice CPU's ... Core i3 level performance with Atom power levels. That CPU has a 14w TDP Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 I can't think of any reason not to use that board. As you probably know, I'm a big fan of mini-ITX systems ... I really like that form factor. And the Avoton's are VERY nice CPU's ... Core i3 level performance with Atom power levels. That CPU has a 14w TDP Yea I'm a huge fan of them too, only reason I didn't go Mini-ITX with my main server was that I was a little concerned about hard drive temps because it constantly has 5-6 video streams going at once. However my backup server will only be only once a week. What kind of case(s) did you use for your mini-ITX build? When I was looking at this board last year, I bought this case to put it in before I decided to go a different direction. I loved it . http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17617 Man I can already see the money disappearing from my wallet haha. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 That's a VERY nice looking case. I used a Lian-Li PC-Q25B, which is still my favorite case for a small server => 5 hot-swap bays with SUPERB cooling (a 140mm fan in front blows directly across the drives, which are side-facing. You do have to pop the side cover off to replace a drive; but that's a 2-second operation. It also holds 2 additional 3.5" drives on a bottom tray (not hot-swap) ... that's where I mounted my parity drive ... and can hold a 2.5" drive between them on that tray if you want a cache. Unfortunately, the Q25B is difficult to find these days ... I suspect Lian-Li is phasing it out; but that's a real shame, as it's an excellent case. Cooling is NOT an issue in the Q25B ... and I doubt it would be in that neat little case you bought either. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 ... Another note r.e. cooling in mini-ITX. I recently built my wife a new PC in a Lian-Li PC-Q08B, which is a nice case for a desktop unit (this wasn't an UnRAID build). I used an i7-4790, 16GB of RAM, and 2 drives (a 1TB SSD and a 3TB 2nd drive). She does a fair amount of Photoshop work that's pretty CPU intensive, and the temps are NEVER anything to worry about. The one thing I DO recommend for any mini-ITX case is that you use an SFX power supply ... even if the manufacturer claims an ATX unit will fit. Provides FAR better internal airflow. Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 That's a VERY nice looking case. I used a Lian-Li PC-Q25B, which is still my favorite case for a small server => 5 hot-swap bays with SUPERB cooling (a 140mm fan in front blows directly across the drives, which are side-facing. You do have to pop the side cover off to replace a drive; but that's a 2-second operation. It also holds 2 additional 3.5" drives on a bottom tray (not hot-swap) ... that's where I mounted my parity drive ... and can hold a 2.5" drive between them on that tray if you want a cache. Unfortunately, the Q25B is difficult to find these days ... I suspect Lian-Li is phasing it out; but that's a real shame, as it's an excellent case. Cooling is NOT an issue in the Q25B ... and I doubt it would be in that neat little case you bought either. Ah I do remember coming across that case during my last build. I like the Lian-Li cases a lot. I will definitely consider that one if I don't go with the U-NAS case. Main thing drawing me to the U-NAS is expandability. I'd have room to add 2 more drives in the future. But we'll see how much I can really afford since the Lian-Li is about $100 cheaper. In regards to the ASRock mini-ITX board, any issues with the Marvell SATA controllers? The board has 12 SATA ports but half of them are Marvell ports. Also, are there any decent 1U power supplies that you know of that will support my build? Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 I don't know about the Marvell ports. I DO recall somebody had bought one of these boards when they first came out and had some issues; but I'm fairly certain a BIOS updates resolved that and all is working well now. I'll see if I can find the thread and post a note back if I find it. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Here's the most recent status update from the thread I had remembered: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=32647.msg359913#msg359913 If you look back through that thread, you'll see there WERE some issues with the Marvell ports, but they were resolved ... at least with UnRAID v6. It seems they may not work with v5, so you would probably have to use v6 on your backup server. Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Here's the most recent status update from the thread I had remembered: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=32647.msg359913#msg359913 If you look back through that thread, you'll see there WERE some issues with the Marvell ports, but they were resolved ... at least with UnRAID v6. It seems they may not work with v5, so you would probably have to use v6 on your backup server. Isn't v6 still in beta? Would there be any issuing syncing both servers if they're running different versions of UnRAID? If I can't feel confident those extra ports will work it kind of defeats the purpose of me picking up that board unfortunately. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yes, v6 is still in Beta. It's getting CLOSE ... but the given the release history of UnRAID "close" could mean weeks or even months away. I don't think that's the case at this point ... but I don't have any insight as to just how long it might be before it's released. I agree it's be a lot safer to use a board that works with v5. I came very close last year to buying one of the 8-core Avoton boards just to "play with" a bit ... but was very glad I didn't when all the issues were outlined in that thread. Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 Yes, v6 is still in Beta. It's getting CLOSE ... but the given the release history of UnRAID "close" could mean weeks or even months away. I don't think that's the case at this point ... but I don't have any insight as to just how long it might be before it's released. I agree it's be a lot safer to use a board that works with v5. I came very close last year to buying one of the 8-core Avoton boards just to "play with" a bit ... but was very glad I didn't when all the issues were outlined in that thread. I read through that whole thread and it definitely has me debating. It's either roll the dice with the ASRock board and hope the BIOS updates fixed any issues I might have, or go with SuperMicro board (like this one http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/atom/x10/a1sai-2550f.cfm) with an IBM Serveraid M1015 like in my main server. Touch decision at this point. Gotta decide by this weekend though because I'd like to get everything ordered so I can build next weekend . BTW, do you think a 350w PSU will suffice? http://www.ebay.com/itm/READY-1U-Seasonic-SS-350M1U-350W-PFC-80PLUS-Gold-Power-Supply-W-1U-BRACKET-/251848619728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa358f6d0 Quote Link to comment
Chugiak Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 In the spirit that anything worth doing is worth overdoing, there is this board: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9060/the-asrock-x99-extreme11-review-eighteen-sata-ports-with-haswelle Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 12, 2015 Author Share Posted March 12, 2015 In the spirit that anything worth doing is worth overdoing, there is this board: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9060/the-asrock-x99-extreme11-review-eighteen-sata-ports-with-haswelle No IPMI? Unacceptable!! Haha that board is sick though for a high end custom build. Brings me back just a few years when I used to OC like crazy and do custom watercooling. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 ... It's either roll the dice with the ASRock board and hope the BIOS updates fixed any issues I might have, or go with SuperMicro board (like this one http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/atom/x10/a1sai-2550f.cfm) with an IBM Serveraid M1015 like in my main server. That Supermicro board looks superb. My backup server uses an earlier version (an Atom D525 mini-ITX Supermicro board) and I couldn't be happier with it. You wouldn't necessarily need to use an M1015 ... a 4-port card should be plenty, as that would give you 10 SATA ports. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124060 ... BTW, do you think a 350w PSU will suffice? http://www.ebay.com/itm/READY-1U-Seasonic-SS-350M1U-350W-PFC-80PLUS-Gold-Power-Supply-W-1U-BRACKET-/251848619728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa358f6d0 Yes -- but not that one, unless you're using an enclosure that supports 1U power supplies. These are the SFX units I tend to use: 450w: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256063 300w: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256097 For a system you may extend to 8-10 drives I'd go with the 450w version. Quote Link to comment
pkn Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 It IS tough to beat the quality and features of the SuperMicro boards ... that's certainly the best way to ensure you get everything you want on the board Man that's gonna kill my budget haha. Because then I'll need ECC RAM and an additional RAID card. If I'm going to have to spend that kind of money, what are your thoughts on this board/cpu combo? I had looked at these ASRock boards back when I was building my original server 1.5 years ago because I wanted to go SFF but they weren't out at the time and I didn't want to wait. Any reason not to use this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157419 Looking at the price tag May I ask why you don't even consider getting used Supermicro boards/cards as server pulls from eBay? Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 ... It's either roll the dice with the ASRock board and hope the BIOS updates fixed any issues I might have, or go with SuperMicro board (like this one http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/atom/x10/a1sai-2550f.cfm) with an IBM Serveraid M1015 like in my main server. That Supermicro board looks superb. My backup server uses an earlier version (an Atom D525 mini-ITX Supermicro board) and I couldn't be happier with it. You wouldn't necessarily need to use an M1015 ... a 4-port card should be plenty, as that would give you 10 SATA ports. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124060 ... BTW, do you think a 350w PSU will suffice? http://www.ebay.com/itm/READY-1U-Seasonic-SS-350M1U-350W-PFC-80PLUS-Gold-Power-Supply-W-1U-BRACKET-/251848619728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa358f6d0 Yes -- but not that one, unless you're using an enclosure that supports 1U power supplies. These are the SFX units I tend to use: 450w: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256063 300w: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256097 For a system you may extend to 8-10 drives I'd go with the 450w version. I am going with that U-NAS enclosure and it does take 1U PSU's. I think I'm leaning towards getting that SuperMicro board so I don't have to worry about any issues with the controller. I have no need what-so-ever for the quad NICS but unfortunately there aren't any newer SM boards with the Avaton processor that have only dual NICS plus IPMI. I coulld probably very easily go with the same board you have with the older Atom since it's just a backup server but I like the idea of being able to re-purpose this board/cpu in the future for something a little more intense. It IS tough to beat the quality and features of the SuperMicro boards ... that's certainly the best way to ensure you get everything you want on the board Man that's gonna kill my budget haha. Because then I'll need ECC RAM and an additional RAID card. If I'm going to have to spend that kind of money, what are your thoughts on this board/cpu combo? I had looked at these ASRock boards back when I was building my original server 1.5 years ago because I wanted to go SFF but they weren't out at the time and I didn't want to wait. Any reason not to use this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157419 Looking at the price tag May I ask why you don't even consider getting used Supermicro boards/cards as server pulls from eBay? I actually looked on eBay but there are very few used SM boards right now up there. Most of them are new and still around $150-$200. Quote Link to comment
pkn Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I actually looked on eBay but there are very few used SM boards right now up there. Most of them are new and still around $150-$200. What's wrong with this one? For a backup server? http://www.ebay.com/itm/X7SBE-Supermicro-Motherboard-Desktop-Server-LGA-775-DDR2-XEON-HEATSINK-IO-/191262115617 My apologies for being insistent but I'd really like to understand the logic of server building. Quote Link to comment
JimPhreak Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 I actually looked on eBay but there are very few used SM boards right now up there. Most of them are new and still around $150-$200. What's wrong with this one? For a backup server? http://www.ebay.com/itm/X7SBE-Supermicro-Motherboard-Desktop-Server-LGA-775-DDR2-XEON-HEATSINK-IO-/191262115617 My apologies for being insistent but I'd really like to understand the logic of server building. Because it needs to be mini-ITX to fit into this case. http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17617 Quote Link to comment
pkn Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I actually looked on eBay but there are very few used SM boards right now up there. Most of them are new and still around $150-$200. What's wrong with this one? For a backup server? http://www.ebay.com/itm/X7SBE-Supermicro-Motherboard-Desktop-Server-LGA-775-DDR2-XEON-HEATSINK-IO-/191262115617 My apologies for being insistent but I'd really like to understand the logic of server building. Because it needs to be mini-ITX to fit into this case. http://www.u-nas.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17617 Ah! Got it. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 In addition to the size difference, the older technology uses a lot more power than a new Haswell or Avoton board would; uses more expensive and less efficient DDR2 instead of DDR3; doesn't have a warranty; etc. ... In short, the modest cost difference has tradeoffs that come with it -- personally, I wouldn't buy that board even if it was mini-ITX Quote Link to comment
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