My Tiny4 case

[queeg]

I couldn't pass this up.  It's a really small mini-itx case that can be modded for an Icy Dock 3-in-2 and it has space inside for a 4th hard drive.

 

All I need is a really low riding mini-ITX mobo.  I need some help with that because it's hard to tell how low riding they are from the pictures.

The lower the better.  An inch tall would be great.  Any taller and I will have to mod the mobo plate to sit lower.  I can get probably an extra 1/2 inch that way.

The front is really attractive screen which isn't represented very well in digital picture.  The plastic front is real nice.  It looks trashy in the photo because the flash bounced back.  

There are some 80Plus certified microATX power supplies.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104075  

The psu vents straight out the back and it would pull air though the case over the motheroard.  The 4th hdd is in it's own compartment so it won't dump heat on the mobo either.

 

So the case is 286mm x 245mm x 130mm (11.25" x 9.65" x 5.1")  The 3-in-2 drive bay would stick 1/4 inch out the back would be 1/4 inch inside the rear exhaust fan!  It's a mini tower and it can also lay on it's side.  How's that for an potential 6TB (9TB by end of this year) unRaid appliance?

 

Edit:  The motherboard in the case picture is actually a miniDTX board I was seeing if it fits and doesn't really fit.  A mini-ITX has only one expansion slot.

 

Edit:

Here are some low profile mobo's

 

Jetway NF95A-270 Mini-ITX Mainboard $134

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/nf95a_270_lf

 

Intel D945GSEJT Johnstown Mini-ITX Mainboard $99  *This is the one I'm interested in.

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/d945gsejt

http://www.silentpcreview.com/Intel_D945GSEJT_with_Morex_T1610

 

Jetway JNC92 Atom Expandable Mini-ITX Board (Low Profile Heatsink)

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=47#jnc92

 

Intel D945GCLF2 Dual Core Atom Mini-ITX Board  not sure if low profile

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=47#d945gclf2

[Rajahal]

Do you have a link to the case?  Also, how much do you expect this to cost (I know the cost will vary depending on the mobo and drives you choose).

[queeg]

It's a Raidmax case.  I was in Fry's over the weekend checking for SFF cases.  They had two of these cases, one was sitting out as a display.  In the picture there are two rear fans but mine doesn't have the fans.  It's built like a tank.  I will be putting in a 60mm or 80mm fan that will blow sideways either from left to right or right to left depending on which seems best.  I'll probably end up with 3 to 4 fans really low-speed silent.  The PSU has one, the Icy Dock has one, the sideways one I'll install and maybe one in the rear next to the Icy Dock just to help move exhaust out.  

 

I'm estimating in the neighborhood of $375 + hard drives.  Then either use just a 3-drive unRAID license or buy a Plus license to use all 4 drives.

 

http://www.frys.com/product/6145869

 

Mobo:

Intel D945GSEJT Johnstown Mini-ITX Mainboard $99  

This mobo says it supports S3.  

 

RAM:  2GB  $50

 

PSU

http://www.xpcgear.com/lionep350fx.html   $60

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104075&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Power+Supplies-_-FSP+Group+(Fortron+Source)-_-17104075   $44

 

2 port PCI Sata controller:  $20

 

IcyDock 3-in-2: $90

 

Some day this mini PCIe Sata controller (SiL3132) may be available.

http://www.globalamericaninc.com/p1507890/1507890_-_PCI-Express_Mini-Card_Serial_ATA_RAID_Controller/product_info.html

 

This 4 port PCI Sata II card might just fit - not sure if the chipset is compatible however.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124033&cm_re=sata_controller-_-16-124-033-_-Product

 

4-port PCI Sata II (SiL3124) should fit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124034&cm_re=sata_controller-_-16-124-034-_-Product

[Rajahal]

Ah, nice.  The case does look a lot better in Fry's pictures 

[WeeboTech]

Hmm... I dunno...

Not to rain on your parade, but this seems more like UCD (unRAID Compulsive Design) rather then a maintainable model.

 

Rob_Esc's Mini unRAID Rig and xamindar mini systems seem to be more attractive and maintainable.

 

Just because you can, should you? LOL! Just kidding here but there seems to be a point of diminishing returns or savings.

 

The Mini 10 server was a work of art. I think you might be exhibiting UCD with this one. LOL.

 

What you might save in once place, you spend in another.

 

Take a peek at these cases before

http://www.e-itx.com/cfi-a7879.html

http://www.e-itx.com/gfi-g45.html

 

Actually building a really nice HTPC looking unRAID server would be cool.

I'm trying to consider something like that along with XBMC to have an integrated solution.

 

Possibly port the md driver and management code to an XBMC installation.

[queeg]

 

Take a peek at these cases before

http://www.e-itx.com/cfi-a7879.html

http://www.e-itx.com/gfi-g45.html

 

 

One has only 2 hard drive slots.  I don't see any use in that unless it could be modded for a 5-in-3.  The other matches the 4 drives and is very nice looking but at $60 more expensive and considerably larger.   Maybe it could be modded to add 1 more hot swap bay vertically next to the other four.  

 

It could be UCD.    I bought the case to experiment replacing a microATX box that just runs some virtual machines.  That machine uses 1 hard drive but more ram and cpu than an unRAID box needs and I think I can make the cheap $35 Foxconn miniDTX mobo fit.  Once I took it apart I realized that it was pretty versatile and that I could add a 3-in-2 with some reasonable modding.  By reasonable I mean cutting but not really having to fabricate  any brackets or move buttons like on the TinyTen.

 

So the raidmax case fulfills a couple of different niche uses plus it's really small.  

 

It's possible to make a fairly cheap htpc out of it with a different unRAID server storing content.  Or it could be made into a small but decent unRAID server.  I see this case as being more versatile than a specific purposed case like you linked to.  I'ave used SFF's for years and I've gotten used to having small computers.  

I have a quad phenom machine for family use and I always have a spare machine just sitting there next to it in case the main computer craps out so my wife and daughter can switch over to it if needed.  Since it's just sitting there I let it be the printer server as well.  To be a decent spare machine it doesn't need much storage (1 drive is enough) but it needs to be a dual proc 2.7ghz or better.  I have an older Shuttle and I'll be migrating it to this raidmax.  

The raidmax fits so many situations and it's cheap enough I can build several.  So cost and size is really a bigger consideration for a general design than if you only look at it as if it's a one-off.  

 

This is Rob_Esc's you referred to.  

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6101.0;topicseen  

That case + motherboard alone total $325.  Add $100 for powersupply and 2GB ram.  It's handles 6 drives instead of 4 for $50 more.  It's bigger.  

Lian Li PC-Q08 case:  13.6" x 8.9" x 10.7"  = 1295 cubic inches (5.6 US Gallons).      

Raidmax case: 24 cm x 28.9cm x 13.5cm   = 571 cubic inches (2.47 US Gallons).

I showed the gallons to help give a visual of the size.  If your trying to cram stuff into a shelf it can matter.  If it's sitting on a desk it will be noticable how much smaller the raidmax case's footprint really is.  

[WeeboTech]

There's more to Rob_Esc's design. The IPMI KVM over IP is really nice.

After seeing it in action for my X7SBE, I can see the use. I no longer need to dedicate a port on my KVM.

Total remote management, power up, down, reset, console. etc. etc.

 

What I like about the Lian Li is elegance. 6 drives for $50 more + IPMI KVM over IP, and a slot for a DVD drive.

Albeit unraid does not use one now, but it can be a removable drive or an offsite media backup drive.

One of these days I'll get around to getting LCDproc working with unRAID. After that a Crystal Fontz 5.25 LCD with front panel control of unRAID would be sweet with the Lian Li design.

 

As for the G45 case, http://www.e-itx.com/gfi-g45.html  it holds 2 removable drives and 1 internal 3.5" drive.

Just barely enough for unraid basic.

I'm considering this as a build with a DVD drive and merging XBMC and unRAID. Would be a sweet all in one NAS & Media player or ripper, although not my favorite setup with the internal drive.

 

I do like the 4 drive model.

 

By the time you add in cost of the raidmax case, PSU & ICY Dock, the costs are not that far apart.

 

7.88" x 9.85" x 11.82"  vs 11.25" x 9.65 X" x 5.1"  Sizes are not that far apart either.

 

I also find the CHENBRO ES34069 a really nice candidate.

In fact I built two.

I punched some holes in the case for eSATA jacks and it worked out perfect. (Slim DVD Burner & 2.5" flash drive too!)

 

I did not find the tiny4 in the raidmax case worth it unless you had all the parts just sitting around.

It's just my opinion, no offense meant.

 

It looks nice with the ICY Dock, I could not see myself building it if I had do invest the time into cutting, etc, etc.

If I have to remove the cover to replace the internal drive, then is it even worth it to have removable drives.

I do have a 3in2 front fan bracket, (not removable). I think it was around $40, so if that was used it might make a cost effective machine.  I could just see myself cursing it if a drive went and I had to open the machine.

 

I'm so lazy and tired of opening machines to change a drive. hahahahaha!!

 

I had one machine where the internal drive died. Instead of changing it I bought a brand new machine (it was time. <grin>)

 

Just some thoughts.

 

EDIT:

Also, let me add, My comments are just an opinion and it's just a debate. Don't let anything I say stop you from building.

It's more a debate on, Is it worth it?

[queeg]

There's more to Rob_Esc's design. The IPMI KVM over IP is really nice.

A feature IF it's needed.  For me it's not one I'm likely to use.  I use the web page.

 

What I like about the Lian Li is elegance. 6 drives for $50 more + IPMI KVM over IP, and a slot for a DVD drive.

Like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder.  It's whatever you personally like.  Elegance is whatever works for your personal situation.  The more it's fits your personal needs the more elegant it will seem to you.

 

I do like the 4 drive model.

 

Yep, it's a nice size for an assortment of uses.

 

 

By the time you add in cost of the raidmax case, PSU & ICY Dock, the costs are not that far apart.

 

True.  Are you saying you won't have to buy a psu for either of the two cases your looking at?

What parts will you salvage when you decide to upgrade or change cases in 2-3 years.  I'll be able to reuse or sell the 3-in-2 and the motherboard.  I'll be able to repurpose the small case maybe.  You can sell or reuse the motherboard but will have an expensive specific use case that won't be sellable because styles change quickly and if you buy the case with the built in hot swap drive bays they may break making the case sort of unusable. All maybe, maybe nots.  Who knows for now.

 

7.88" x 9.85" x 11.82"  vs 11.25" x 9.65 X" x 5.1"  Sizes are not that far apart either.

Ohh, yeah they are.  Your case could hold 2 raidmax cases.

 

 

If I have to remove the cover to replace the internal drive, then is it even worth it to have removable drives.

You have to crack the Lian Li to change any of the drives.

 

It looks nice with the ICY Dock, I could not see myself building it if I had do invest the time into cutting, etc, etc.

Money versus time.

 

I do have a 3in2 front fan bracket, (not removable). I think it was around $40, so if that was used it might make a cost effective machine.  I could just see myself cursing it if a drive went and I had to open the machine.

I'm intersted in seeing the non-swap 3-in-2, please post a link.  Don't buy the Lian Li, you will have to open the case.

 

 

I'm so lazy and tired of opening machines to change a drive. hahahahaha!!

Everyone has pet peeves.  I can't stand over-paying too much for fashionable hardware.  I really hate big ugly intrusive noisy computers.  

 

I had one machine where the internal drive died. Instead of changing it I bought a brand new machine (it was time. <grin>)

My first unRAID machine was a Shuttle with 3 hard drives in it (it had excellent airflow).  The powersupply was too underpowered.  I learned my mistake.  I still build small computers.  I've been building silent machines since way before it was a common thing to do.  I would open power supply's and replace fans with quiet models as well as cases and cpu's.   I guess I'm just used to the fact nobody makes cases the way I like them and that I'm always going to make some kind of change.  I look at cases with an eye towards "can I make it like I want?"

 

 

This is all just discussion.  Not even debate.  Don't worry, it's not taken too seriously.  I always learn from this forum.

 

 

[WeeboTech]

I'm intersted in seeing the non-swap 3-in-2, please post a link.  Don't buy the Lian Li, you will have to open the case.

 

ha! Yeah, I thought about that, But I have a few customers who want something elegant like that.

I'm sure if I could package unraid and XBMC in one machine I would have even more sales.

 

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16856999209

I've used the iStorm7 for years to cool a pair of SCSI 10,000 RPM drives. Works very well.

 

 

 

[queeg]

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16856999209

I've used the iStorm7 for years to cool a pair of SCSI 10,000 RPM drives. Works very well.

 

It looks like I could move the drive rails over to one side and cut out the bottom on the other side.  That would probably allow some other non-super-low profile motherboards because the heatsinks on some are just on one side.  This opens up the possibility of using a motherboard with 4 sata ports.  

Then if I took the fan out from the front and boxed in the drives with lightweight material then the fan could be at the rear of the case.  That would vent hard drive heat directly outside the case.  

 

Might not even need to mod the cover.  Hmm, maybe all I really need is drive rails and I can make them from scratch.  Hmm.

 

Wait, how about a 3 hard drive system + low profile DVD player.  Now that is starting to seem like a small htpc machine.

 

Edit:  It looks like 4 hdds + low profile DVD player OR 6 hard drives will fit.   No cutting on the front but brackets must be made to mount the drives.  Everything gets real cozy but no worse than any of the Shuttles I've had.

 

Edit 6/4/10:  Having given it some analysis it is possible to make a 5 drive machine but it would require mounting the power supply above the motherboard and putting 2 drives where the psu normally is which seems too much work to me.  

However, making a 4 drive system is much simpler with a couple of internal brackets and would allow the use of the cheap Foxconn G41S-K motherboard which would allow two low-profile addon cards.  80% PSU: FSP270-60LE,  2-port Sata adapter,  Celeron E3300.

The other way would be to use a low profile Atom miniITX board with a 2 port sata PCI adapter and the Icy Dock 3-in-2.  

On one hand the Icy Dock is nice.  But being able to add an HDMI video card and up to a quad processor to the Foxconn design is interesting as well.