Is UnRaid Ready for the Enterprise?

[calvis]

I am just curious if anyone is using UnRaid in their business or enterprise?  If so, how did you sell it to upper management?  How did it compare with commercial solutions?  Are there case studies available? 

 

Thanks

 

 

[Rajahal]

I don't use unRAID in an enterprise setting (yet), but I can make some general comments.  First of all, it really depends on the enterprise situation.  If you have an environment where speed matters (such as 50 users need to be able to access the server simultaneously), then unRAID isn't for you.  Conversely, if you have a need for a simple archive solution, then unRAID will work quite nicely.

 

unRAID is a budget solution, and in most enterprise settings the budget is trumped by the need for speed and reliability.  unRAID delivers on reliability, but not speed.  For a small business that needs to backup their important documents, or have a central storage server for the office, unRAID would work quite well.  For larger businesses, it probably isn't appropriate.

[WeeboTech]

It's not mature enough. There would not be enough support. Larger enterprises will probably not accept "buy a license tied to a key."

If it dies request a new one and hope it comes in a reasonable time.

 

I know my company wouldn't use it. (at least yet).

I know a number of wall street CTO's who would not use it.

 

We spend huge amounts of money on netapp machines and other larger San storage units.

I might be able to get away with it's use as an archival backup server to our corporate FTP Servers. It would never be sanctioned as a production worthy backup.

It would only serve as a quick access near line backup.

 

For smaller more budget conscious environment with man power to tweak and care for an unRAID server, Yes, for a larger enterprise, I'm not so sure.

[ajeffco]

Larger enterprises will probably not accept "buy a license tied to a key."

 

You'd be surprised.  Our enterprise printing system is tied to usb dongles.  If they were to die (they haven't in 7 years, through two server hardware swaps) the servers would come to a screeching halt.  They are clustered, with two servers in the cluster, but still...

 

As far as unRAID being enterprise ready, I don't see why not, if there's a need that it fits.  We have a couple of NAS boxes from both IBM/Netapp and EMC that could easily be replaced by unraid.  All they are doing is hosting backups from a medical system running Linux that we can't put our backup system agent on, due to FDA certification issues.  Another server comes along later and scrapes up the files deposited onto the array.  All it would take would be the right hardware, and it would be a perfect fit .

 

And in terms of unRAID running on "commodity hardware", our enterprise SAN virtualization (IBM SVC) is running on modified IBM x3550 M2 systems.  "just another intel server" in terms of hardware. It does have an added peice of hardware, but under the covers, it's Intel.

[bcbgboy13]

Larger enterprises will probably not accept "buy a license tied to a key."

 

Our enterprise printing system is tied to usb dongles....

 

is USB dongle equal to USB flash???

 

I do not think so.

[ajeffco]

Larger enterprises will probably not accept "buy a license tied to a key."

 

Our enterprise printing system is tied to usb dongles....

 

is USB dongle equal to USB flash???

 

I do not think so.

 

Quite the useful response...

 

It's just a USB key with some license files on it, attached to some Windows servers.  Better?  Whatever you want to CALL it, if the thing dies or gets unplugged, the application running on the server ceases function.  The VENDOR of the software called it a dongle.  What the license file is, how it's made, etc, etc, I could care less.  Where I work, I'm not a Windows admin, or the printing system admin.  I'm a SAN and UNIX admin.

 

My point regardless, is that if it fits, why wouldn't it be ready regardless of the size of a company?  There's a couple of things that would make it more enterprise, but nothing that would stop it from fitting into an enterprise, as long as there was a need

[calvis]

Thanks for the good answers thus far.  If anyone else has anything to add please do so.

[kizer]

Personally I wouldn't consider it secure enough out of the box for an enterprise solution. FTP open, telnet open and various other things.

 

I'm not saying you couldn't secure it for a business, but where I work we have easily 2000 work stations and tons and tons of traffic across the network. Then again they are completely a windows based outfit, but hey they like to spend 1000's on licenses and tech support opposed to open source solutions.

 

I think it would work great if there where several database servers or several file servers, but you would have to put some effort in locking it down.

 

On a personal note I think its awesome for my personal home use and its stood up to everything I can think of throwing at it.

[pfp]

I don't use unRAID in an enterprise setting (yet), but I can make some general comments.  First of all, it really depends on the enterprise situation.  If you have an environment where speed matters (such as 50 users need to be able to access the server simultaneously), then unRAID isn't for you.  Conversely, if you have a need for a simple archive solution, then unRAID will work quite nicely.

 

unRAID is a budget solution, and in most enterprise settings the budget is trumped by the need for speed and reliability.  unRAID delivers on reliability, but not speed.  For a small business that needs to backup their important documents, or have a central storage server for the office, unRAID would work quite well.  For larger businesses, it probably isn't appropriate.

 

Agreed.

I run IT for a 50 person company and while I'm not using one there yet I'm seriously considering it for exactly the type of purpose you point out a) archiving and b) storage of backup images. There is no way at all my company would even entertain the idea of spending the money for a mainstream enterprise NAS device but under $1k for an unRAID box that could grow as necessary is definitely doable.

[bcbgboy13]

Quite the useful response...

 

It's just a USB key with some license files on it, attached to some Windows servers.  Better?  Whatever you want to CALL it, if the thing dies or gets unplugged, the application running on the server ceases function.  The VENDOR of the software called it a dongle.  What the license file is, how it's made, etc, etc, I could care less.  Where I work, I'm not a Windows admin, or the printing system admin.  I'm a SAN and UNIX admin.

 

http://news.cnet.com/Flash-drive-makers-form-booster-group/2100-1004_3-5113951.html

 

See this article to get an idea what the market for USB drives was seven years ago.

 

And I am still not sure that these dongles are/were a pure USB keys. The protection for the real expensive software used to come on parallel port dongles but with the demise on these they may have moved to the more common USB ports.

A single computer usually have only one PP - what is going to happen if you want to install two or more different programs each with own dongle.

 

And coincidently I know someone who bought last year a waterproof, shockproof, dustproof and whatnotelseproof USB with lifetime warranty. Guess what - it went haywire after not more than 10-12 insertions/removals.

[WeeboTech]

Perhaps I've been in the industry for a long time and my concept of enterprise is different.

I work for ,and with, Wall Street firms, Fortune 500 companies.

 

There are many rules governed by the SEC as far as security and data accessibility (archival storage).

The patterns seen here on the forum show that limetech would not be able to support this type of enterprise environment if a problem arose.

 

I'm referring to Data companies, banks, brokerage firms where there are special regulatory controls governing some very basic data controls.  Companies that do not blink an eye on a huge SAN environment.

 

A smaller company as an archival server with a contained budget, unRAID fits well

A departmental server or secondary backup server. unRAID fits well.

A media warehouse, unRAID fits well.

 

Ready for the enterprise out of the box. I do not feel it's ready.

(Unless you are a seasoned admin, know slackware very well and know unRAID very well).

Higher Security and management of uid/gid consistency does not exist.

Sometimes there is too much of a gap in presence to feel supported.

A larger enterprise is going to want an SLA to be sure they can have support.

 

The future can have many changes. It all depends on the needs of an organization and if it's win/win for both organizations. (enterprise organization and limetech).

 

It still depends on the Admin and if they feel confident enough to get under the hood to adjust what is needed for their environment.

[GK20]

Larger enterprises will probably not accept "buy a license tied to a key."

 

You'd be surprised.  Our enterprise printing system is tied to usb dongles.  If they were to die (they haven't in 7 years, through two server hardware swaps) the servers would come to a screeching halt.  They are clustered, with two servers in the cluster, but still...

 

As far as unRAID being enterprise ready, I don't see why not, if there's a need that it fits.  We have a couple of NAS boxes from both IBM/Netapp and EMC that could easily be replaced by unraid.  All they are doing is hosting backups from a medical system running Linux that we can't put our backup system agent on, due to FDA certification issues.  Another server comes along later and scrapes up the files deposited onto the array.  All it would take would be the right hardware, and it would be a perfect fit .

 

And in terms of unRAID running on "commodity hardware", our enterprise SAN virtualization (IBM SVC) is running on modified IBM x3550 M2 systems.  "just another intel server" in terms of hardware. It does have an added peice of hardware, but under the covers, it's Intel.

 

There is a network management system, Banyan, that as old as Novell. To boot up this server you will need to install a hardware key at RS-232 (or PIO) otherwise this server will not boot. At that time there is no USB yet. Don't know if this Banyan company/product still exist in the market or not. That is to say, using HW key as a way of license protection is a long existing concept and practice.

 

As unRAID for Enterprise, many have provided some thoughts, for me other than service/customer support, one main concern i have is "using only one parity disk to protect 10/20 data disk" that is just way too risky in enterprise environment especially if this unRAID will be extensively used.

 

[WeeboTech]

As unRAID for Enterprise, for me ... one main concern i have is "using only one parity disk to protect 10/20 data disk" that is just way too risky in enterprise environment especially if this unRAID will be extensively used.

 

Actually I'm pretty confident with this part of unRAID in Enterprise.

unRAID as an archival tool is fine with one parity disk.

If you are in an enterprise environment and do not have access to spare disks, then that's the real issue.  Part of unRAID's code has been derived from the linux md RAID5 code which has been stable for a long time.  If you are not accessing all disks at the same time and you are reading, there is not all that much at stake.

Having a warm spare idle in the machine should be enough to help alleviate apprehension.

Multiple simultaneous disk failure is rare. Yet a RAID5 array would have the same issue as well.

At least an unRAID array will let "some" of the data survive.

 

[GK20]

As unRAID for Enterprise, for me ... one main concern i have is "using only one parity disk to protect 10/20 data disk" that is just way too risky in enterprise environment especially if this unRAID will be extensively used.

 

Actually I'm pretty confident with this part of unRAID in Enterprise.

unRAID as an archival tool is fine with one parity disk.

If you are in an enterprise environment and do not have access to spare disks, then that's the real issue.  Part of unRAID's code has been derived from the linux md RAID5 code which has been stable for a long time.  If you are not accessing all disks at the same time and you are reading, there is not all that much at stake.

Having a warm spare idle in the machine should be enough to help alleviate apprehension.

Multiple simultaneous disk failure is rare. Yet a RAID5 array would have the same issue as well.

At least an unRAID array will let "some" of the data survive.

 

 

If our setting is "an archival tool", this implies unRAID is NOT in critical path in daily enterprise business routine. With this assumption, i agree unRAID can do its own work, has or has no spare disk as long as there is no double failure then it is fine. Because any non-critical works could be postponed until problems are fixed. for example, if unRAID had lost a disk and in degrade mode, then postpone archiving jobs until unRAID recovered from degrade mode, for many, this is still an acceptable solution.

 

For storage in critical path in enterprise environment, peoples want storage to be in fully functional mode for as long as possible and quickly recover from degrade mode (for example has hot-spare and automatically kick in hot-spare to rebuild data for offline disk). because at any given time a RAID is in degrade mode, this not only implies its response time will not be as good as before because of those overhead in data reconstruction on the fly but also it is one step closer to multi-failure that could bring whole RAID offline.

 

 

UnRAID still have "some" data left when in multi-failure is its advantage as well as disadvantage. it is an disadvantage because data is not striping across multiple disks to take advantage of parallel I/O  when underline hardware has this capability. This advantage, however, is one of reason i choose unRAID.

 

[WeeboTech]

Well said. "Reliable storage in the critical path is a key factor in enterprise."

if unRAID did self healing while the array was live this would go a long way towards more acceptance. I planned to bring it in house, but only as a second level near line backup.

We have this massive robotic tape backup environment. But for some of our ftp servers, restoring takes time and people.  With an unRAID server housing months of backup It could be rsynced in minutes rather then hours.  But I still could not use it to replace the tape backups.

 

There are so many other requirements in my organization to accept a machine as a production machine, unRAID would still not pass. I'll leave that out for now.

[GK20]

Well said. "Reliable storage in the critical path is a key factor in enterprise."

if unRAID did self healing while the array was live this would go a long way towards more acceptance. I planned to bring it in house, but only as a second level near line backup.

We have this massive robotic tape backup environment. But for some of our ftp servers, restoring takes time and people.  With an unRAID server housing months of backup It could be rsynced in minutes rather then hours.  But I still could not use it to replace the tape backups.

 

There are so many other requirements in my organization to accept a machine as a production machine, unRAID would still not pass. I'll leave that out for now.

 

In the end, it is all cost driven. Enterprise doesn't mind to pay premium for good solution in critical path as long as it can work and there is a quick response when issue happen. in one of my jobs before, there was even customer needed to replacing disk on the fly when RAID is still in fully functional mode (hint : temporarily make to be replaced disk and hot spare disk as mirror, once hot spare disk catchup, swap in hot-spare in critical section, dismantle mirror)

 

In the end, tape is still the most cost efficient storage solution if not counting time factor when we talk about huge data storage and organized huge data in the form of library for easy accessing and indexing, not long ago i throw away two data backup tapes i used before from Iomega because the tape machine was broken long time ago and nowadays there is almost impossible to find any tape machine for consumer with reasonable price in the market.