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SAMSUNG F4 HD204UI 2TB $94 with Free Ship Deal of the day 9/22

bluewhale51

By bluewhale51
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BRiT Mentor

BRiT

Posted
Posted

So two reports are enough to make blanket statements about an entire range hard drives? That wasn't what you were saying earlier when there were multiple reports of these hard drives reporting below ambient temps. Please, can you at lease be consistent in what you say. ???

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

So two reports are enough to make blanket statements about an entire range hard drives? That wasn't what you were saying earlier when there were multiple reports of these hard drives reporting below ambient temps. Please, can you at lease be consistent in what you say. ???

 

Lame...  There are no reports of these hard drives reporting below ambient temps. Now you are just lying.  = FAIL!

 

There are multiple reports all over the web of the Samsung drive working with Windows XP, WHS, and other linux based file servers (FreeNAS, QNAP, etc.).  Now we have two more with unRAID.  These were all the systems that were troubled by EARS drives.

 

I guess maybe you don't get around the web enough to stay informed...

BRiT Mentor

BRiT

Posted
Posted

I refer you to this thread here which was reported to be below room temps: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0

 

Unfortunately it seems ROK deleted his posts, perhaps you asked him to cover up the truth? You can continue to live in denial all you want. The rest of us are informed.

 

2)  I have one SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM drive now in my WHS.  It runs 25-30°C

 

Currently I'm reading 81 degrees Fahrenheit in my computer room.  My WHS is reporting 25 degrees Celsius for the drive in question.   WHS is reporting 48-51 degrees Celsius for the Seagate 7200.11 1.5TB drives I've been relying on.  

 

81 degrees F = 27.2 C

Samsung reports 25 C

 

25 C Samsung Temp < 27.2 C Room Temp

 

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

I refer you to this thread here which was reported to be below room temps: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7820.0

 

Unfortunately it seems ROK deleted his posts, perhaps you asked him to cover up the truth? You can continue to live in denial all you want. The rest of us are informed.

 

2)  I have one SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM drive now in my WHS.  It runs 25-30°C

 

Currently I'm reading 81 degrees Fahrenheit in my computer room.  My WHS is reporting 25 degrees Celsius for the drive in question.   WHS is reporting 48-51 degrees Celsius for the Seagate 7200.11 1.5TB drives I've been relying on.  

 

81 degrees F = 27.2 C

Samsung reports 25 C

 

25 C Samsung Temp < 27.2 C Room Temp

 

 

Maybe he deleted his post because you guys were misrepresenting what he said, or maybe he realized he posted incorrect information.

 

I have one SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI 2TB 5400 RPM drive now in my WHS.  It runs 25-30°C than the other 5 Seagate 7200.11 1.5TB drives!
 

 

What was he actually saying?  That his HD204UI ran 25-30C hotter than? cooler than? Or did he mean it ran 25-30C.  It looks to me like he is making a comparison, so he would be saying they were that much hotter or cooler, not that that was their actual temp.

 

Or maybe I sent armed thugs to his house and forced him to do it at gunpoint...  you seem to be the expert on crazy theories and assertions, so you tell me.

 

You continually fail to overlook the obvious.  Spec on the temperature sensors used in HDD's +/- 1C.

 

Spec on a typical home thermostat +/- 3F.    Spec on a typical $10 digital thermometer from Wal-Mart +/- 2C.  Is the thermometer within line of sight of an uncovered window on a sunny day? Subtract 5F from its reading to get the real room temperature.  

 

There are no details on where the 81F is coming from.  Rooms have hot spots due to air circulation.  Was his ambient temp measured in the immediate area of the PC (it should have been made inside the case near the drive) or was it made across the room?  Based on the thermostat elsewhere?  The temp sensor on the MB?  Where?

 

Before you were talking about gross errors, like 10-15C below ambient.  Now you are trying to force the appearance of a problem, by grasping at a 2C difference based on sketchy info at best.  Nice try, but again, fail...

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

This guy here

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7981.0

has posted the smart reports for his hard drives and he has a few Samsung drives.

The nice feature of Samsung's HD it that they keep track on min/max temperature.

Check them out and then compare with the temperature of the non-Samsungs ones.

 

Weren't three of his drives Samsung and only the parity drive non-Samsung (a WD drive).

 

But none of that really means anything.  He could have done the Samsungs right out of idle.  He may have just written some files before doing parity and got the drive hot.  Or the three samsungs could be in a hot swap icy dock with a fan, and his parity drive is mounted inside the PC case near a heat generating component (or just not near any cooling fans).

 

Examining them or comparing them in this manner really doesn't tell you anything.

Rajahal Mentor

Rajahal

Posted
Posted

Here's the temps for comparison:

 

Samsung 1: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   081   066   000    Old_age   Always       -       19 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/19)

Samsung 2: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   080   063   000    Old_age   Always       -       20 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/20)

Samsung 3: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   079   066   000    Old_age   Always       -       21 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/21)

          WD: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   125   117   000    Old_age   Always       -       27

 

I agree that it isn't a fair comparison, however, all the Samsungs showed 18-21 C, which is very cool (you want to look at the 'value' not the raw value - the raw value is meaningless everyone except the drive manufacturer).  Considering 20 C is generally considered to be room temperature, I would consider these readings suspect.  For the drives to run that cool they would either need to be in a very cold room or have excessive case cooling.  Of course, we need to know more information (such as the ambient temp of the room, or the ambient temp inside the case, and the cooling setup).

 

On a side note, I'm getting quite tired of all the personal attacks that seem to surround you, KYThrill (both pointed at you and coming from you).  Let's keep the discussion on Samsung drives and the accuracy of their temperature readings, and not on each other.  I'm looking at you as well, BRiT.

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

Here's the temps for comparison:

 

Samsung 1: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   081   066   000    Old_age   Always       -       19 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/19)

Samsung 2: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   080   063   000    Old_age   Always       -       20 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/20)

Samsung 3: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   079   066   000    Old_age   Always       -       21 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/21)

          WD: 194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   125   117   000    Old_age   Always       -       27

 

I agree that it isn't a fair comparison, however, all the Samsungs showed 18-21 C, which is very cool (you want to look at the 'value' not the raw value - the raw value is meaningless everyone except the drive manufacturer).  Considering 20 C is generally considered to be room temperature, I would consider these readings suspect.  For the drives to run that cool they would either need to be in a very cold room or have excessive case cooling.  Of course, we need to know more information (such as the ambient temp of the room, or the ambient temp inside the case, and the cooling setup).

 

On a side note, I'm getting quite tired of all the personal attacks that seem to surround you, KYThrill (both pointed at you and coming from you).  Let's keep the discussion on Samsung drives and the accuracy of their temperature readings, and not on each other.  I'm looking at you as well, BRiT.

 

Umm....  The min/max temp on the Samsung is the min/max raw value.  So if you are saying the raw value is meaningless, then the min/max is also meaningless.  You also don't look at the Value, it is 80 on the Samsungs, and the drives are not 80 C.  Value is a meaningless number.  It is assigned by the drive.  If the value equals or exceeds the threshold, SMART will report the drive has failed.  In the case of temperature, a bigger value means a cooler drive and a smaller value means a hotter drive.

 

Perhaps a primer on SMART temp readings is in order:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine/monitoring-hard-disks-smart?page=0,1

 

Each Attribute has a six-byte raw value (RAW_VALUE) and a one-byte normalized value (VALUE). In this case, the raw value stores three temperatures: the disk's temperature in Celsius (29), plus its lifetime minimum (23) and maximum (33) values. The format of the raw data is vendor-specific and not specified by any standard. To track disk reliability, the disk's firmware converts the raw value to a normalized value ranging from 1 to 253. If this normalized value is less than or equal to the threshold (THRESH), the Attribute is said to have failed, as indicated in the WHEN_FAILED column.

 

Also, 20C isn't that cold, 68F.  It would be a common underground basement temp, a winter temp, or just someone who likes to keep things cool (before I was married, I kept my apartment at 70F during the summers).  They guy could live on an Alaskan ice road for all we know.  Not enough info there to draw any valid conclusions.

 

 

And for everything else you had to say, I'll just add:

 

Don't start none and there won't be none!

Rajahal Mentor

Rajahal

Posted
Posted

You are right, I mixed it up.  The 'value' we ignore and the 'raw value' is what we pay attention to.

 

I would still consider 18-21 C to be suspiciously low, but as you have said we need to know more information to make an informed decision about it.  I used to keep my house around 21 C (70 F) also, and yet my actively cooled drives would never dip below 30 C (86 F), even when just woken up from idle.  My drives are a mix of WD, Seagate, and Samsung (and yes, my Samsungs report temps within 2 or 3 C of the rest of my drives, so I guess I got lucky with mine).

BRiT Mentor

BRiT

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry. I won't discuss this topic any further.

 

I just couldn't let his hypocrisy go without pointing it out. It was just too tempting to me. He said multiple reports (4-6) aren't enough to make generalizations, yet he did exactly that based off of 2 reports.

 

I know no one is the official forum police, but would everyone do me a favor, and if you see me acting out of line anywhere on here, shoot me a PM letting me know? I sometimes get too wrapped up to even see how it looks to others.

 

Thanks.

 

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

I'm sorry. I won't discuss this topic any further.

 

I just couldn't let his hypocrisy go without pointing it out. It was just too tempting to me. He said multiple reports (4-6) aren't enough to make generalizations, yet he did exactly that based off of 2 reports.

 

I know no one is the official forum police, but would everyone do me a favor, and if you see me acting out of line anywhere on here, shoot me a PM letting me know? I sometimes get too wrapped up to even see how it looks to others.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Actually I didn't make the statement based off two reports, but I guess you can continue with the lies...  There are many reports coming in of the Samsung drives working with WHS and QNAP, both which require a Sector 63 alignment, just like unRAID.  My comments are based off of no less than a dozen drives performing with no problems, with only one potential negative (bad looking HD Tune off WHS).  Much different than what you were postulating before (that millions of Samsung drives are bad, based off 2-3 bad drives).

bcbgboy13 Enthusiast

bcbgboy13

Posted
Posted

 

However the "Value" and the "Raw Value" on his Samsung drives neatly add to 100 for both parameters 190 and 194. And these drives are on close to 6000 hours as shown in the POH.

The two WD are new (60 hours) and somehow show 27C both for the 194 parameter.

 

Too bad I do not have a single Samsung drive to test it myself.

 

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

 

However the "Value" and the "Raw Value" on his Samsung drives neatly add to 100 for both parameters 190 and 194. And these drives are on close to 6000 hours as shown in the POH.

The two WD are new (60 hours) and somehow show 27C both for the 194 parameter.

 

Too bad I do not have a single Samsung drive to test it myself.

 

Yeah, but that falls apart when you look at the worst values and the temp max/min.  If it were a simple subtraction, the worst numbers would be different.

Chris Pollard Collaborator

Chris Pollard

Posted
Posted

Just FYI, I picked up one of these drives and the preclear is nearly finished after 24h.  Mine is HD204UI/Z4.  And I see people arguing about Samsung temps..... mine tend to start below room temp too :)

 

Output from a SAMSUNG HD154UI :-

 

190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   079   070   000    Old_age   Always       -       21 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/23)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   076   069   000    Old_age   Always       -       24 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/25)

 

since my place regularly gets to 30 in the summer I don't think the numbers can be trusted.

 

Output from a SAMSUNG HD203WI :-

 

194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   064   064   000    Old_age   Always       -       25 (Lifetime Min/Max 19/34)

 

More believable, it doesn't list airflow.

KYThrill Contributor

KYThrill

Posted
Posted

Just FYI, I picked up one of these drives and the preclear is nearly finished after 24h.  Mine is HD204UI/Z4.  And I see people arguing about Samsung temps..... mine tend to start below room temp too :)

 

Output from a SAMSUNG HD154UI :-

 

190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   079   070   000    Old_age   Always       -       21 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/23)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   076   069   000    Old_age   Always       -       24 (Lifetime Min/Max 18/25)

 

since my place regularly gets to 30 in the summer I don't think the numbers can be trusted.

 

Output from a SAMSUNG HD203WI :-

 

194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   064   064   000    Old_age   Always       -       25 (Lifetime Min/Max 19/34)

 

More believable, it doesn't list airflow.

 

Actually, I'm starting to wonder if the linux SMART utility is correctly decoding the temperature.  The temp value stored on the drive is actually a hex value, and the linux tool is converting it to decimal.  I noticed tonight that when I left the HD204UI sitting idle (for 1 hour) in a trayless fan cooled hot swap bay, it was returning a different temp with unRAID, than when it sat in an identical tray in my windows machine.

 

After 1 hour idle (spundown) in my unRAID box, smartctl reported 27C.

After 1 hour idle (spundown) in my Windows box, CrytalDiscInfo was reporting 31C. 

 

The ambient inside those two trayless bays was within 1C of each other (checked with a Fluke 52), so I wouldn't expect a 4C difference.  Room temp was 25C.

 

Samsung drives are somewhat unique in that the store three values in their hex number on the drive (min/max/current).  WD drives only store the current value.

 

Could their be a problem with smartctl?  CrystalDisk tripping up?  One of those two number must be wrong, or the Samsung draws more power at idle in Windows than in unRAID.  Is that possible?

 

I guess now I need an external enclosure where I can just move a SATA cable between two machines and take temp readings and keep all other variables the same...

 

BRiT Mentor

BRiT

Posted
Posted

It could be a problem with smartctl.

 

If you're open to trying out a newer version of the Smart Mon Tools, there's a newer one mentioned here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7718.msg74667#msg74667

 

In unRAID 4.5.6, it uses version 5.38 while the latest Slackware prebuilt is 5.39.1. I do not know if installing it for unRAID will be easy or if you'll need to pull down additional updated libraries such as the C runtime libraries and more.

 

If it doesn't work quite right or things get to be too much of a mess, you can reboot the unRAID system and be back to the previous working state.

 

cd /var/tmp
wget http://slackware.cs.utah.edu/pub/slackware/slackware-13.1/slackware/a/smartmontools-5.39.1-i486-1.txz
installpkg smartmontools-5.39.1-i486-1.txz

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