Intel Core i9-13900K with SuperMicro X13SAE-F or Gigabyte MW34-SP0?

[spamalam]

I'm looking for advice on a motherboard

1. Are the choices below good?  Do they work with Unraid and does igpu passthrough work without needing any faffing?
2. Are there any other motherboards that tick the boxes (ECC, iGPU, PCI-e 4+, IPMI/web boot)?
3. Is a 12th gen i9-13900K a good choice?
4. Any good UK/European based providers of server motherboards?

 

I am wanting to upgrade a dual Xeon nas to something that can handle transcodes (multiple 4k->1080p, 1080p->720p and also move my collection to x265 so likely need to transcode that for users other than me) and anything else I can throw at it.  I'm using XFS so also want ECC memory.

 

I did some quick research and unfortunately it looks like Xeons aren't too hot a choice anymore and whilst there are some that do iGPU/quicksync, it looks like Intel i9-13900K might be better for what I need.  It actually comes out with less power consumption than my fully loaded Xeon E5s.  I understand this cpu works in unraid fine?

 

After a bit of digging I found two motherboards:

 

• SuperMicro X13SAE-F
  • https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/motherboard/x13sae-f
• Gigabyte MW34-SPO
  • https://www.gigabyte.com/Enterprise/Server-Motherboard/MW34-SP0-rev-10#Specifications

 

Has anyone tried these boards and confirm the igpu passthrough works?  I understand the chipset support it, but would be great to know.

 

I'm having trouble tracking these down for purchase mind, the SuperMicro is on ebay around ~680 GBP, gigabyte I will contact and ask for a supplier.  

Edited November 19, 2022 by spamalam
Easier to read, clearer questions

[spamalam]

SuperMicro X13SAE-F (£510.37)

https://www.lambda-tek.com/Supermicro-MBD-X13SAE-F-O~sh/B46304825

Haven't been able to find the gigabyte yet.

[QukI]

Not sure if Mainboard will run with 13900k, it says „8+8“ core max support.. but the cpu has 8+16.. and i didn‘t find anything which confirms that combo works…
just some days ago, SM added official support for 13th gen. But as i mentioned they note explicit 8+8 cores

 

i had this combo also in mind.. since around 3 weeks, but at this time, there was no cpu support, which they added now…. But i struggle with that other „problem“

Edited November 23, 2022 by QukI

[spamalam]

Oh brutal, you are right... It can only do 16 cores not 24.  I emailed lambda Tek but they never replied with questions.

Edited November 23, 2022 by spamalam

[ChatNoir]

8 hours ago, spamalam said:

I emailed lambda Tek but they never replied with questions.

You'd be better off contacting the manufacturer rather than the seller for technical questions : Supermicro.

[spamalam]

Gigabyte have confirmed that it's compatible and supports igpu passthrough, hoping to get a quote.

 

Will contact supermicro again, as they haven't replied either (not the retailer)

Edited November 24, 2022 by spamalam

[stein2000]

22 hours ago, spamalam said:

Gigabyte have confirmed that it's compatible and supports igpu passthrough, hoping to get a quote.

 

Will contact supermicro again, as they haven't replied either (not the retailer)

 

 

I was also thinking of this supermicro combo. I can only see from different shops they support 12 gen, 12900, would be great if they also supported 13900

 

[spamalam]

They aren't replying, in the meantime the gigabyte are recommending some retailers for quotes and I've contacted them.

 

I think supermicro is lining up to be a miss

[datapoint]

I have the X13SAE-F paired with an i9-13900K. All 8P/16E cores are detected and fully operational. If you plan on buying this combo, just be aware that you need a 12th gen CPU on-hand to be able to flash the BIOS to version 2.0 before the board can work with 13th gen CPUs like the i9-13900K. You can also RMA the board right after receiving it and have Supermicro themselves do the flashing, but then you're working on their timeline which could be a while depending on where you're RMAing from and how busy they are.

 

I don't use unraid but stumbled upon this thread while researching something else and wanted to give you a datapoint.

Edited November 26, 2022 by datapoint

[Robby]

9 hours ago, datapoint said:

I have the X13SAE-F paired with an i9-13900K. All 8P/16E cores are detected and fully operational. If you plan on buying this combo, just be aware that you need a 12th gen CPU on-hand to be able to flash the BIOS to version 2.0 before the board can work with 13th gen CPUs like the i9-13900K. You can also RMA the board right after receiving it and have Supermicro themselves do the flashing, but then you're working on their timeline which could be a while depending on where you're RMAing from and how busy they are.

 

I don't use unraid but stumbled upon this thread while researching something else and wanted to give you a datapoint.

Hey would you mind running some kind of single/multi core benchmark with that hardware? I saw someone else with this same setup who had dramatically degraded CPU performance. It would be great to know if this is a problem with this specific hardware config.

[datapoint]

 

9 hours ago, Robby said:

Hey would you mind running some kind of single/multi core benchmark with that hardware? I saw someone else with this same setup who had dramatically degraded CPU performance. It would be great to know if this is a problem with this specific hardware config.

I ran Geekbench 5 on it: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/18904077.

 

According to https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i9-13900k (which I believe are averages of other people running Geekbench 5 on their i9-13900K), the single-core score matches up well, but the multi-core falls short by about 14%. Does this experience match up with the other person?

 

I did some more research and found this article: https://www.club386.com/intel-core-i9-13900k-vs-amd-ryzen-9-7950x-at-125w-and-65w/

In that article there is a graph showing results of the i9-13900K at "stock" (perhaps meaning unlimited, or 253W) versus capped at 125W: 

 

The results from my benchmark are much closer to the "Intel Core i9-13900K (24/32) - 125W" entry in the chart above, indicating that the Supermicro board might be capping the CPU at 125W by default. I'm not sure how to validate this, but it does seem likely. The article additionally states that "Intel shaves off 16 per cent [when run at 125W]", and that is very close to the 14% with my numbers.

Edited November 27, 2022 by datapoint

[Robby]

8 hours ago, datapoint said:

 

I ran Geekbench 5 on it: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/18904077.

 

According to https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i9-13900k (which I believe are averages of other people running Geekbench 5 on their i9-13900K), the single-core score matches up well, but the multi-core falls short by about 14%. Does this experience match up with the other person?

 

I did some more research and found this article: https://www.club386.com/intel-core-i9-13900k-vs-amd-ryzen-9-7950x-at-125w-and-65w/

In that article there is a graph showing results of the i9-13900K at "stock" (perhaps meaning unlimited, or 253W) versus capped at 125W: 

 

The results from my benchmark are much closer to the "Intel Core i9-13900K (24/32) - 125W" entry in the chart above, indicating that the Supermicro board might be capping the CPU at 125W by default. I'm not sure how to validate this, but it does seem likely. The article additionally states that "Intel shaves off 16 per cent [when run at 125W]", and that is very close to the 14% with my numbers.

Yeah that matches up, thanks for testing! 

 

You're probably right, it most likely limits to 125w. I suppose that makes sense, but it's a bit of a shame to shave off ~15% of the chip's potential right out of the box. 

[spamalam]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:13 PM, datapoint said:

I have the X13SAE-F paired with an i9-13900K. All 8P/16E cores are detected and fully operational. If you plan on buying this combo, just be aware that you need a 12th gen CPU on-hand to be able to flash the BIOS to version 2.0 before the board can work with 13th gen CPUs like the i9-13900K. You can also RMA the board right after receiving it and have Supermicro themselves do the flashing, but then you're working on their timeline which could be a while depending on where you're RMAing from and how busy they are.

 

I don't use unraid but stumbled upon this thread while researching something else and wanted to give you a datapoint.

Oh wow, welcome and thanks for sharing!  That's not going to work for me as I don't have spare CPUs and don't think I'd want the hassle of dealing with RMA process.  Does igpu passthrough work fine with ipmi enabled?  I read about supermicros getting confused and needing a hdmi dongle to trick it into thinking its got a valid input.

 

 

I'm still waiting on a quote for the Gigabyte quote 

Edited December 6, 2022 by spamalam

[clarkg888]

I just bought the Supermicro X13SAE-F for my new Unraid build. I haven't bought the CPU yet, but looking at i7-12700, i7-12700K or i5-13600K.

I connected the motherboard to the power supply CPU 24 pin and 8 pin connectors, no CPU or RAM and the BMC works and gets an IP address from my home router.
Pointed my browser to that IP address and logged into the IPMI. There I could see the board had BIOS version 1.0b so won't work with 13'th gen.
It is possible to update the BIOS without a CPU via the IPMI, but you need to purchase a Supermicro Out of Band (OOB) Software License Key (SFT-OOB-LIC):
https://store.supermicro.com/out-of-band-sft-oob-lic.html

 

The motherboard selection on that order page does not show X13SAE-F in the drop down list. I used the online chat to ask and the agent got back to me and said to select  X12SAE-5 for ordering the license and it would work.

 

I have found Supermicro support very good answering questions.

 

I live in Canada and could not find the Gigabyte board anywhere.

 

Add: I found I must have a US billing address to purchase from Supermicro directly.

Edited December 9, 2022 by clarkg888

[WingmanNZ]

@clarkg888 you could give this a try https://tql.ink/ipmi/ 

[clarkg888]

19 hours ago, WingmanNZ said:

@clarkg888 you could give this a try https://tql.ink/ipmi/ 

I looked at that. That doesn't work for the newer Supermicro boards such as the X13SAE-F. To enable the BMC BIOS update on my board, it requires a file be uploaded instead of entering a license key. I guess they finally closed that loophole!

 

I am in the process of purchasing from a Canadian vendor.

[WingmanNZ]

18 hours ago, clarkg888 said:

I am in the process of purchasing from a Canadian vendor.

Do you mind sharing the link to the vendor? I am going to be purchasing this motherboard in the next few weeks and plan to pair it with the upcoming i9-13900 (non-K) and 64GB ECC DDR5

[QukI]

I got mine yesterday.

Ask a local computershop if they do Bios Updates 😉.

In the end, I did it my self there, because thy were scared from the command line off the uefi shell. … but it was super easy 

[clarkg888]

On 12/13/2022 at 3:00 PM, WingmanNZ said:

Do you mind sharing the link to the vendor? I am going to be purchasing this motherboard in the next few weeks and plan to pair it with the upcoming i9-13900 (non-K) and 64GB ECC DDR5

I am trying to buy from Insight: https://ca.insight.com/en_CA/shop/product/SFT-OOB-LIC/SUPERMICRO COMPUTER/SFT-OOB-LIC/Supermicro-OOB-BIOS-Management-activation-key/

However, they need details from my motherboard to generate the key file. I emailed them and a salesman called me back, then I sent the info he asked for 12-Dec but I haven't heard back yet.

 

[saf]

Couple quick comments based on my current use of the Supermicro X13sae-f.

 

• I purchased on the last week of December and it shipped with the 2.0 bios.
• I am able to use the Intel i9 13900K without issues.  This was a nice surprise to include the 2.0 BIOS I noted above
• First issue I ran into is that it cannot see my LSI 9300-8i adapter.  It sees it but no drives.  It is flashed into IT mode (shipped) but I also updated it.  I can see it on my Windows 10 desktop and can also boot into the controller after boot using ctrl-c.
• According to Supermicro response to my ticket (their support is nice, quick, and so far pretty spot on for me) they said the PCIe x16 slot on this platform doesn't support any storage controlled card according to Intel.  So, our LAB didn't test any storage controller card on this platform.  I'm trying to upgrade from an older X11SSH-CTF that is rock solid outside of lack of compute by current CPU standards (home use)
• Also of note that I am not able to see any drives even using the SATA ports.  I installed 6 WD 16 TB drives but only see one.  I've removed them all but again only see 1.  Support is still trying to see what could be the issue although they said the HD I am using is not on their supported list.

So on one had it shipped with the required BIOS to support the 13900k CPU.  What little I have used of it - it is stupid fast.  Downside for me is the possibility of unsupported drives, no storage control, so not much use for a ZFS pool (I run 2 pools each of 6 disks).  It could be I didn't set something up correctly but so far everything support is saying it isn't supported be it drive or storage card.  Not sure what the board is for then outside maybe desktop workstation compute/cad that doesn't require lots of disks.

 

[spamalam]

On 1/4/2023 at 12:24 AM, saf said:

Couple quick comments based on my current use of the Supermicro X13sae-f.

 

• I purchased on the last week of December and it shipped with the 2.0 bios.
• I am able to use the Intel i9 13900K without issues.  This was a nice surprise to include the 2.0 BIOS I noted above
• First issue I ran into is that it cannot see my LSI 9300-8i adapter.  It sees it but no drives.  It is flashed into IT mode (shipped) but I also updated it.  I can see it on my Windows 10 desktop and can also boot into the controller after boot using ctrl-c.
• According to Supermicro response to my ticket (their support is nice, quick, and so far pretty spot on for me) they said the PCIe x16 slot on this platform doesn't support any storage controlled card according to Intel.  So, our LAB didn't test any storage controller card on this platform.  I'm trying to upgrade from an older X11SSH-CTF that is rock solid outside of lack of compute by current CPU standards (home use)
• Also of note that I am not able to see any drives even using the SATA ports.  I installed 6 WD 16 TB drives but only see one.  I've removed them all but again only see 1.  Support is still trying to see what could be the issue although they said the HD I am using is not on their supported list.

So on one had it shipped with the required BIOS to support the 13900k CPU.  What little I have used of it - it is stupid fast.  Downside for me is the possibility of unsupported drives, no storage control, so not much use for a ZFS pool (I run 2 pools each of 6 disks).  It could be I didn't set something up correctly but so far everything support is saying it isn't supported be it drive or storage card.  Not sure what the board is for then outside maybe desktop workstation compute/cad that doesn't require lots of disks.

 

 

Is that both x16 slots that don't support LSI SAS cards?  I understand there's two, one I think the first might conflict with m.2/raid.

[WingmanNZ]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:24 PM, saf said:

Couple quick comments based on my current use of the Supermicro X13sae-f.

 

• I purchased on the last week of December and it shipped with the 2.0 bios.
• I am able to use the Intel i9 13900K without issues.  This was a nice surprise to include the 2.0 BIOS I noted above
• First issue I ran into is that it cannot see my LSI 9300-8i adapter.  It sees it but no drives.  It is flashed into IT mode (shipped) but I also updated it.  I can see it on my Windows 10 desktop and can also boot into the controller after boot using ctrl-c.
• According to Supermicro response to my ticket (their support is nice, quick, and so far pretty spot on for me) they said the PCIe x16 slot on this platform doesn't support any storage controlled card according to Intel.  So, our LAB didn't test any storage controller card on this platform.  I'm trying to upgrade from an older X11SSH-CTF that is rock solid outside of lack of compute by current CPU standards (home use)
• Also of note that I am not able to see any drives even using the SATA ports.  I installed 6 WD 16 TB drives but only see one.  I've removed them all but again only see 1.  Support is still trying to see what could be the issue although they said the HD I am using is not on their supported list.

So on one had it shipped with the required BIOS to support the 13900k CPU.  What little I have used of it - it is stupid fast.  Downside for me is the possibility of unsupported drives, no storage control, so not much use for a ZFS pool (I run 2 pools each of 6 disks).  It could be I didn't set something up correctly but so far everything support is saying it isn't supported be it drive or storage card.  Not sure what the board is for then outside maybe desktop workstation compute/cad that doesn't require lots of disks.

 

I had an issue with my LSI 9200-8i adaptor not working in the second slot, it only works in the first 16x slot (closest) to the CPU. I have 24 drives connected to it via a SAS expander and it works great. I also have 4 SATA SSD's connected to 4 of the onboard SATA ports which are all working correctly.

 

So far my only issue has been trying to get the CPU to drop down to C-States/P-States lower than C1/C2....

[bezeria]

It looks like Gigabyte just released a BIOS for mw34-sp0 (w680 board) that presumably adds raptorlake support.

 

https://www.gigabyte.com/Enterprise/Server-Motherboard/MW34-SP0-rev-10#Support-Bios

 

Updated Microcode for Raptor Lake H-0 stepping CUP

Version : F09

22.09 MB

2023/01/12

 

 

[brainreplaced]

@WingmanNZ, hello!

I have a same build with x13sae-f + intel 12700. Did you try to start in legacy mode? I want to passthrough my gtx 1660 to vm but it is unsuccessful and I dont see any option in bios.

[QukI]

The manual mention (more or less) that the second x16 slot doesn’t work, if nothing is detected on the first one…

and together they only can provide 16 lanes.

Edited January 21, 2023 by QukI