A n00b's dive into unraid, some basic questions to ask

[lilkiduno]

Okay, so forgive me as this is my first set up, and I am still in the ordering/setting up phase. My original plan was to recycle an old desktop my job was sending to the recycler, they had been recycling out some 3rd gen core i5 Lenovo’s but when I saw a 6th gen Lenovo in the pile, I snatched it up. My plan was to get this project up and running with the least amount of upfront spending possible so I am using parts I currently have on hand.

So, here is the parts list as of right now: 

·         Lenovo M910t barebones (Intel 6700 CPU)

·         2 x 4 gb DDR4 2400

·         3 x 4 TB Seagate Ironwolf NAS drives (I really wanted to go 2 x 8TB drives for the cheaper expansion with 8 TB drives in the future, but the additional cost was a little out of reach for the time being.)

·         ASUS BW-16D1HT

·         Rosewill 400W PSU

·         Antec 300 Case

·         Unraid Basic

·         Cheap 24 pin to 10 pin PSU Adapter

 

The main purpose of this system is to host a Plex server and be able to stream to the maximum of 4-6 devices at a time, due to the size constraints I plan to transcode/compress (not sure the correct term this is my first forte into video hosting) the source videos.

Basically because our movies are stored in the basement and not organized the most efficiently it has become more convenient to buy movies I already own on Amazon video so the kids don’t have to hunt for that one movie, it’s a total waste of money I know, but I realize the quality of the Amazon streams are not the highest quality so if I transcode to “1080P streaming quality” for my storage it should allow me to pack the 8 TB with a lot more content postponing the need to add more drives and keeping the cost down.

Because I plan on carrying the drives forward is why I purchased these new, and I needed a Blu-ray reader to start ripping my collection and I scoured different forms and found one of the 4k friendly drives, I think, but I don’t have any 4k Blu-ray disks so I am not in a big hurry for that function but I wanted to ensure that I purchased a friendly drive since I had to purchase a drive regardless.

I was wondering if I would see a huge performance uptick in performance by biting the bullet and using a 11700k CPU and Motherboard instead. I picked up a combo deal from my local Micro Center a few months ago and I have been running this CPU as a hush hush Minecraft playing PC when I have downtime at the office, ssssshhhhhhhh it’s our little secret.

 

Is using the igpu on the 6700 okay for transcoding/compressing or should I really look into putting in a dedicated gpu, If I steal form the 11700k system I guess I could put in a EVGA 1660, I know this will aid in performance, but I'd be gutting my break time PC and don't want to do that if it's avoidable as I am not sure the Rosewill PSU can handle the system + GPU.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I do plan on doing upgrades down the line, so I’d really like to add additional RAM by replacing the 8 GB kit with at least a 32 GB kit, a AUDHEID K7 8 Bay NAS Case, a compliant PSU and more drives down the road. House is already wired for 1GB Network with Cat6 cabling throughout the house and as many devices hardwired as possible.

 

[daniel.boone]

From Plex site "1080p (10Mbps, H.264) file: 2000 PassMark score" so it might be rough for the number of transcodes your shooting for. I'd say that 6700 is a great place to start. Average CPU mark listed as 8083. CPU is plenty for unRaid. 

 

If I were you, assuming the office is feeling charitable, find some ram in the pile to add to your system, just to get you to 16GB. Try the system as is for Plex otherwise. I would not invest money into that system if it doesn't make you happy at that point. You can always pull the video card for testing later.

 

I'm using the igpu for transcoding without issue but I'm running a new processor. I also have 32GB of ram just consumption is at 30% regularly. I can't recall it ever going over 35%. I run about 10 containers but 0 vms just to give you an idea. For me the biggest change was the use of nvme for Plex. The Plex display was sluggish before that. Good luck with the build. 

[lilkiduno]

4 hours ago, daniel.boone said:

From Plex site "1080p (10Mbps, H.264) file: 2000 PassMark score" so it might be rough for the number of transcodes your shooting for. I'd say that 6700 is a great place to start. Average CPU mark listed as 8083. CPU is plenty for unRaid. 

 

If I were you, assuming the office is feeling charitable, find some ram in the pile to add to your system, just to get you to 16GB. Try the system as is for Plex otherwise. I would not invest money into that system if it doesn't make you happy at that point. You can always pull the video card for testing later.

 

I'm using the igpu for transcoding without issue but I'm running a new processor. I also have 32GB of ram just consumption is at 30% regularly. I can't recall it ever going over 35%. I run about 10 containers but 0 vms just to give you an idea. For me the biggest change was the use of nvme for Plex. The Plex display was sluggish before that. Good luck with the build. 

The office keeps Storage and Memory, so I can’t get any of that. Unfortunately I don’t work in our IT department where the occasional kit of memory may happen to disappear from the large corporate supply room. Yeah, I knew the 8 GB was going to be a limiting factor.

 

As far as the “transcoding” I was referring to, it would be ripping the movie in MakeMKV then using Handbrake to compress into a file format more friendly to the streaming devices. Or am I misunderstanding on my end? I didn’t want the processor to have to live encode if I could avoid it. RAM is dirt cheap right now, so I may end up and buying a cheap 32 gb kit.

 

Do I have to set up a VM to run MakeMKV and Handbrake, or can they both be ran via containers inside of unraid?

 

My co-worker showed me a server he’s building, for the company, that houses a core i5 11600k and a Mini-ITX motherboard in a case more sorted for a 4 bay NAS, with hotswap, with 14TB surveillance drives for a camera server for another branch. Kind of made me want to rethink my build.

[daniel.boone]

Ok your not transcoding, your ripping media. That processor is fine. Its the first version with HEVC support. I'd bet limited but x264 is well developed. That's a great place to start if your not hot on 4K.  Would more cores be faster, sure but nothing wrong with the processor there. I'd be happy with that processor

 

Ram may needs a bit of a bump but that should not stop you from using what you have. This goes without saying but don't put your job at risk. I hope my suggestion on the ram wasn't taken any other way. 

 

I don't run makemkv or handbrake on my server so can't speak to ram reqs there but should be easy to find online. Both of those apps have docker versions in community applications. 

 

I've started on a 1st gen HP media vault and a laptop. I probably ran a pair of 300GB drives at that time. Many upgrades later my system looks nothing like any of its predecessors. There is always a better system around the corner. Run with what you got, If your happy then your done. Save funds for disks.. That's where most of the money goes. If you dead set on spending on ram I'd look for a deal on ebay for a 7th gen or better processor with the ram you want. You want to move up not backwards. You already have a 6th gen processor so no point in getting the same if your not happy.  

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by daniel.boone

[daniel.boone]

Just for a test I added handbrake and re-encoded a couple of uhd vids to see the impact. With a direct stream of a high quality 1080p mkv on plex, the re-encode got memory up to 40% of the 32GB I have. 16GB works but during ripping ram consumption would be toward the high end. I tried a couple of different settings, no real change from that perspective. CPU on the other hand got up to 90ish%. No impact to the video playing but I'm on a 12th gen i7. Please post what your experience is like. It would help others considering a similar combo as yours. Originally I was considering a nuc for plex and leaving my old system in place. 

[lilkiduno]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:07 AM, daniel.boone said:

Ok your not transcoding, your ripping media. That processor is fine. Its the first version with HEVC support. I'd bet limited but x264 is well developed. That's a great place to start if your not hot on 4K.  Would more cores be faster, sure but nothing wrong with the processor there. I'd be happy with that processor

 

Alrighty, so the mix up was my bad use of terms, I apologize. Yeah, that's the theory to start off with what I had, luckily I found the 6700 system sans the storage and memory, otherwise this would have probably started on a 4th gen i5. 

 

On 3/29/2023 at 11:07 AM, daniel.boone said:

Ram may needs a bit of a bump but that should not stop you from using what you have. This goes without saying but don't put your job at risk. I hope my suggestion on the ram wasn't taken any other way. 

 

No, I perfectly understood your point, I was trying to make jokes, It's something I do more than I probably should.

 

On 3/29/2023 at 11:07 AM, daniel.boone said:

I've started on a 1st gen HP media vault and a laptop. I probably ran a pair of 300GB drives at that time. Many upgrades later my system looks nothing like any of its predecessors. There is always a better system around the corner. Run with what you got, If your happy then your done. Save funds for disks.. That's where most of the money goes. If you dead set on spending on ram I'd look for a deal on ebay for a 7th gen or better processor with the ram you want. You want to move up not backwards. You already have a 6th gen processor so no point in getting the same if your not happy.  

 

 

 

I think for the time being I am just going to run MakeMKV and handbrake on my "2nd Office PC" the one with the 11700K, GTX 1660 and 16 GB of DDR4. I have already spoken with our IT Department, they don't care what I do with it as it's all my own equipment as long as it doesn't hit the secured network. I installed my Bluray drive and a spare 2TB Barracuda HDD I had in there, until I get my hands dirty and learn both unraid and these programs I think I want to use them separately for now.

 

Currently I am piggy backing off the companies provided guest WIFI with a KING WiFiMax wireless router, this is temporary as I was just testing it out and becoming familiar with it for my upcoming Family Camping Trip. My Father has Starlink RV, but my RV being a couple spots down generally doesn't pick up the Wifi on my Playstation 4, I am hoping that'd take care of it. However, because I am enjoying actually receiving WiFi in my work area I my end up bring it back and forth until I buy another.

[MrGrey]

On 3/28/2023 at 2:37 PM, lilkiduno said:

The main purpose of this system is to host a Plex server

 

I prefer Emby.

 

MrGrey.

 

[lilkiduno]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:57 PM, MrGrey said:

 

I prefer Emby.

 

MrGrey.

 

 

Is there any advantages to emby over plex? I am already a PlexPass member, so cost wouldn't an advantage any longer. I am pretty ignorant so I'd be interested in learning. 

[Hoopster]

4 minutes ago, lilkiduno said:

Is there any advantages to emby over plex? I am already a PlexPass member, so cost wouldn't an advantage any longer. I am pretty ignorant so I'd be interested in learning. 

I think that is mostly a matter of preference.  Emby does not have the "must be logged into account for server access" requirements Plex has and does not do as many "phone home" type of things.  Many choose to use the Kodi client with Emby server.  Emby has pretty good plugin environment.

 

Plex is better if you are hosting mobile/remote users.

 

For both, you need to have a paid version for hardware transcoding.

[lilkiduno]

13 minutes ago, Hoopster said:

I think that is mostly a matter of preference.  Emby does not have the "must be logged into account for server access" requirements Plex has and does not do as many "phone home" type of things.  Many choose to use the Kodi client with Emby server.  Emby has pretty good plugin environment.

 

Plex is better if you are hosting mobile/remote users.

 

For both, you need to have a paid version for hardware transcoding.

 

How would you access your stored media if you don't have an account? Is there a unique url for your server?

 

Personally, I don’t really care for mobile/remote users ATM, it may very well be an issue later. I was thinking about a RPi + SSD loaded with the .mp4 files running OMV with a plex server docker to access movies in the RV. I haven't given much thought to the few times a year when I have to fly out for work, I may just take a couple .mp4s copied over to my laptop and carry HDMI cables to hook up to the Hotel TVs. 

[Hoopster]

2 hours ago, lilkiduno said:

How would you access your stored media if you don't have an account?

I'm not an Emby expert as I use Plex.  It is just my understanding that you do not need to be logged into an online Emby account to access your local media.  Emby has local accounts?  Perhaps an Emby user can shed more light on this.

 

Since Plex seems to be going in the direction of online/streaming media aggregator, they are forcing server access through your Plex online account, even for accessing local media.  It appears they are moving further away from their roots as a personal media server, although that still works great as long as you are connected to the mothership.

 

I stick with Plex because I do have several remote users accessing my server content and I also access it while traveling.  Nothing facilitates that as well as Plex.

[Aran]

3 hours ago, lilkiduno said:

 

How would you access your stored media if you don't have an account? Is there a unique url for your server?

Accessing Emby from outside your LAN is explained here: Emby - External Connections  BUT if your ISP decided to suddenly change your public ip (they do where i live), you will lose your connection. Also, opening ports on your router is not recommended.

 

Instead, put your Emby/Jellyfin docker behind a reverse proxy and use a free domain name (no-ip, duckdns, cloudflare, etc...). Granted, it takes some time to set up.

Or you can use a vpn. (Tailscale is super easy)

Edited April 5, 2023 by Aran

[JonathanM]

4 hours ago, Hoopster said:

I stick with Plex because I do have several remote users accessing my server content and I also access it while traveling.  Nothing facilitates that as well as Plex.

I do the exact same thing (multiple remote users and access for myself while traveling) with Emby. Why do you say Plex does it better?

 

Genuinely curious, because I've used Emby like that for over 8 years now, and never felt the need to try Plex. How much better can it be?

[Hoopster]

2 minutes ago, JonathanM said:

I've used Emby like that for over 8 years now, and never felt the need to try Plex

May be a misunderstanding on my part.  I have just read from multiple sources that Plex is "better" than Emby for remote access and that if remote access is needed, Plex is the best option.  If it works well in Emby, you are correct, what does "better" really mean?  Never having tried Emby, I have no first-hand knowledge of how it works for remote users.

[TimTheSettler]

21 hours ago, Hoopster said:

Emby does not have the "must be logged into account for server access" requirements Plex has...

 

19 hours ago, lilkiduno said:

How would you access your stored media if you don't have an account? Is there a unique url for your server?

 

I might be missing something here but I have Plex running as a docker on my unRAID server and I do NOT have a Plex account at all.  I'm able to view all my local content using the Plex app on my Roku device.  Once in a blue moon (very rare) I get a window showing up that tries to get me to sign up for an account but I just bypass it.  One note is that I can only access the server locally.  I have VPN access between all my servers and I'm unable to get to the GUI remotely but that all makes sense since I don't have an account.

[Hoopster]

2 hours ago, TimTheSettler said:

I might be missing something here but I have Plex running as a docker on my unRAID server and I do NOT have a Plex account at all

This is possible and there are documented ways to get around the "connect to the mothership account" for using Plex locally.  However, in my case, where remote use happens frequently by me and other users, there is not a good way around that. 

 

Especially after the Plex data breach last year when we all had to reset passwords and reclaim servers (which was not as easy as it should have been), requirements for being logged into Plex account seem to have been strengthened.

 

Again, you can get around it for local access only, but, once you need remote access, you get nagged a lot if you are logged out of the mothership account; at least I do.

[lilkiduno]

Seems like I missed quite the conversation here. Okay, forgive me again it appears again my ignorance was on full display. I was assuming the no account thing tied into remote access, that would make sense that you should be able to access your locally stored media without an account. Due to this being my first venture into a media server everything is kind of new to me. I chose to use plex, because at the time I hadn't heard of Emby, only Plex and Jellyfin. It was my understanding that you had to use more web based interfaces to use Jellyfin, and becasue I wanted more of the "Netflix" experience of having an app on all my devices that's what pushed me to Plex.

 

Once I get my feet under me, I can try and use Emby as well, but I first need to rip all these movies and get a feel for how this is going to work.

 

I do know that I might be pulling this out of the Antec 300 and finding a 2u or 3u chassis to put this in and run a lack rack for a little while so I can start investing in a quality UPS as the power had gone out at work during the night the last two days and I'd be damned if the parity check doesn't take 10 hours.