Build Report: Jonsbo N3 + CWWK J6413 SoC

[madmin]

Starting from this German thread, I tried to plan a simple DIY NAS with "potential for more", built around a new SoC based on this German build report. The goal was to substitute my Synology DS 216j (1x WD Red 8 TB internal + USB-Dock-Backup on a WD green 4 TB for the critical data), with a more powerful, less proprietary, updateable and more reasonably priced DIY NAS, with potential use of docker, and maybe a VM.

• motherboard miniITX CWWK J6413 (Celeron with iGPU, 2x 32 GB DDR4, 1+5x SATA, 2x M2 slot), 174 €
• case: the new Jonsbo N3 (8x 3,5" HotSwap with improved backplate). I considered the Node 304 and the N2, but for improved airflow and formfactor, the N3 came out just in time.
• PSU: ATX Corsair RM550x - Which turned out to be a problem, see below.
• RAM: 1x 32 GB Corsair DDR4 3200 (CT32G4SFD832A) (maybe a bit over the top for my purposes, but easy to upgrade with another unit if needed).
• Cache: 1x Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 NVMe SSD (MZ-V7S1T0BW), 1 TB
  with heatsink Thermalright TR-M. 2 2280 TYP A B 2280
• I found two Seagate Exos X18 16 TB for ~210 € each - Much more than I need, but it was cheaper than lesser options, and it helps me move data from my 7 year old WD Red 8 TB, which might break down sooner or later. I might use one as internal backup, or for parity (and use the old WD red for internal backup).

This should give me sufficient basic power with enough options to upgrade when needed.

 

I wish I could report more progress at this point, but it turned out that the PSU does not fit the N3 - Which I lacked the experience to notice... The Jonsbo N series is appearently specified for PSX formfactor PSUs, where the Corsair is an ATX formfactor... The N3 is especially tight (<105, instead of <140 for the N2). I plan to use 2...4 HDDs only, so I initially intended to go for a picoPSU 160 W with external Leicke PSU. But the Corsair seemed to be more appropriate a case with up to 8x 3.5" HDDs + 2x 2.5" SSD, and I did not want to buy a new PSU later, so when the rare Corsair became available in a UK version, I just pulled the trigger.

 

Not sure what to do about it now. I could sell the Corsair and restrict myself to the picoPSU (as long as I do not need more than 4 HDDs), or find a similar efficient PSX unit right from the start.

 

BTW, the N3 has a really strange PSU concept: The PSU is seated internally in a bracket, with ~ 2 cm clearance to the case wall - with no access to the power cable socket and the main switch at all. Instead, the case comes with an internal cable (that goes where the bracket has 2 cm clearance, see fotos from N3 interior) with a plug for the PSU that is connected to a power socket on the back of the case... So appearently, you cannot hard-switch-off the system, but that is probably not so much relevant for a server that is rarely disconnected, and if so, requires a controlled power-down.

[headlong-wallflower2576]

Hiya,

 

This is SFX power supply

 

Good luck with your build !

 

 

[madmin]

8 hours ago, headlong-wallflower2576 said:

Hiya,

 

This is SFX power supply

 

Good luck with your build !

 

 

Thanks!

 

Also for the SFX heads up: Looking at SFX specs, the height and width should fit (although it does not really look like it, and the screw holes do not match...). A length of 140 mm seems to be SFX standard - The Jonsbo's 105 is quite a bit on the lower end (especially for an 8 bay case), where the Corsair with 160 mm is a bit on the higher end... I will have a look if I can remove the USB/Audio jack PCB to make room for it - That seems to be the limitation - and fit it in there...

[ChatNoir]

The spec sheet on Jonsbo website states : PSU Support: SFX≤105mm

 

https://www.jonsbo.com/en/products/N3.html

[headlong-wallflower2576]

Corsair SFF600 seems to fit just fine: 

 

 

[madmin]

On 9/14/2023 at 12:49 AM, headlong-wallflower2576 said:

This is SFX power supply

Ok, maybe I got it wrong as a rookie, but this is what I researched:

The Corsair RM550x is advertized as ATX and measures 150 mm (W) x 86 mm (H) x 160 mm (L), which, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_unit_(computer)#Appearance seems to be more of an ATX large (up to 180 mm length, opposed to ATX spec 140 mm).

 

I measured a clearance for the PSU of ~140 mm x ~70 mm x 105 mm in the case - which leaves room for a SFX form factor PSU spec'ed as 125 mm x 63,5 mm x 100 mm. Even if I remove the mini-PCB which carries the Front USB, USB-C, and Audio sockets and limits length, that would only extend the length clearence, but not the rest.

 

The Corsair SF600 is advertized as SFX and measures 100 mm x 63 mm x 125 mm - So that would fit the bill, but at much larger ~170 € cost, and it's on backorder for basically the rest of the year (Dec 24...26)... So that is no solution at hand, either.

 

Are there any experiences with be Quiet or Sharkoon (or other) 500 W Gold rated SFX units, especially with efficiency in the most relevant idle @ 30 W range? Or would a picoPSU be the best way to go? I mainly bought the N3 for improved airflow around the hotswap backplate, not for actually equipping it with 8+2 drives. It just feels odd to limit options at this point, but I probably will not really need them...

Edited September 16, 2023 by madmin

[TeCH-Guruz]

On 9/16/2023 at 12:33 AM, madmin said:

Ok, maybe I got it wrong as a rookie, but this is what I researched:

The Corsair RM550x is advertized as ATX and measures 150 mm (W) x 86 mm (H) x 160 mm (L), which, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_unit_(computer)#Appearance seems to be more of an ATX large (up to 180 mm length, opposed to ATX spec 140 mm).

 

I measured a clearance for the PSU of ~140 mm x ~70 mm x 105 mm in the case - which leaves room for a SFX form factor PSU spec'ed as 125 mm x 63,5 mm x 100 mm. Even if I remove the mini-PCB which carries the Front USB, USB-C, and Audio sockets and limits length, that would only extend the length clearence, but not the rest.

 

The Corsair SF600 is advertized as SFX and measures 100 mm x 63 mm x 125 mm - So that would fit the bill, but at much larger ~170 € cost, and it's on backorder for basically the rest of the year (Dec 24...26)... So that is no solution at hand, either.

 

Are there any experiences with be Quiet or Sharkoon (or other) 500 W Gold rated SFX units, especially with efficiency in the most relevant idle @ 30 W range? Or would a picoPSU be the best way to go? I mainly bought the N3 for improved airflow around the hotswap backplate, not for actually equipping it with 8+2 drives. It just feels odd to limit options at this point, but I probably will not really need them...

I have ordered the same case and found the Corsair SF750 on amazon cheaper (and in stock) than the SF600 which was my first choice. 

[jit-010101]

There are two options to get more space out of it that have sufficient power too 

 

1 or 2. Inter-Tech PicoPSU 200W as a budget option (cables can be unplugged)

 

or 

 

HDPlex GAN 250W which can be daisy chained or 500W variant

 

the later ones are apparently much more expensive (but also of much higher quality)

 

Both options will likely provide more efficient power then any SFX Power Supply available right now

 

You will likely get 20-25W max with the most expensive SFX PSUs (30W with Gold) while either of the above almost make single digit wattages possible (10W)

 

Just wanted to drop that info here because SFX with good low power efficency are apparently almost impossible to get nowadays - and it sucks that they're not tested for it most of the time either.

 

Edit:

 

Event the Corsair SF600 Titanium rated power supply power efficiency below 25W is sub par (as far as I can see):

 

https://www.cybenetics.com/d/cybenetics_4v1.pdf

 

The HDPlex gan is much better suited for sub 50W - see:

 

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/hdplex-250w-gan.17801/page-2

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by jit-010101

[madmin]

OK, it obviously took me a few days to proceed with my build. It is time for an Update:

 

tl;dnr: Do not do it, it is not worth the effort, unless you want to substantially invest effort and time - You know the Levi's commercial with the boy hammering the square peg into the round hole? Right - Just like that, only steel instead of wood... Maybe it would be easier with a 3D-printed bracket with metal inserts (I would not trust time-yielding plastic to hold up the torque of the horizontally mounted PSU...). But even then, it is a mechanically tight fight (not yet regarding the airflow...). Multiple times, I though about selling the Corsair and buying an SFX PSU instead, but I had already invested too much time to not see the result.

 

No experiences with operation yet (temperatures, etc.).

 

This turned out a frankenstein-ed brick-like NAS with too many organs inside... 😂

 

Long story:

The existing top beam and the vertical PSU assembly bracket were made from a 1 mm metal sheet that I trusted absolutely zero to carry an ATX PSU horizontally. So I removed it and designed a really solid bracket from 20 mm square piping (1.5 mm strength) that I cut badly at home, filed the saw buildup down forever, and had it welded that should be sufficent:

There is little space in the case between the LED PCB on the front side and the motherboard, and the supporting feet of the bracket were unfortuntaly welded 5 mm too wide apart. So I had to cut the lower pipe bits into two C-Shaped feet, and file slots in there for the bottom screws (not yet in the photo). You need the open feet to get it under the bottom screw head, too.

After the fact, I would redesign the bracket because the access and screw holes ended up in pipe walls, a horizontal one (top right), and a vertical one (low left) - which cost me ~ one hours of milling with a hand machine drill, and two broken drill bits and one broken wood milling bit to clear for the screw head (You can tell from how they look and where they found their final position, too). All not really professional work, but I finally made it work and painted it black with metal protection finish.

 

The countersunk screws holding the original beam were fine-pitch threaded, but my threading tools were metric standard, so I had to order new screws (in the foto, there is temporary screws that will not allow the cover to go over). I also had to cut a piece out, for the cable to go to the PSU (I put some felt pad protector in there to protect the cable - We would not want the case to be "powered"). I designed the bracket to leave most of the ventilation opening uncovered (just really few mm at the side, top and bottom are covered, I do not think it's a big deal). I also took out all the mesh from the front and cover sides ot allow better airflow. I could remove the small hole sheet from the front, too, if it was a problem, but the remaining openings would be really large. I managed to fixate it on the bottom with only one bottom screw (No way to turn it), but the bracket is basically supported on the feet itseld, so the screw only kind of fixes its position.

If I ever wanted to mount süß outside the drive bay in "first floor", it would have to be on the other side (before the mod, you could mount one on each side).

The PSU hovers like 2 cm above the mainboard - luckily only on ca. the back 1/3 of it. Half of the CPU fan is underneath it. It is - intentionally - the PSU side with the sucking fan, though, so I hope it will not cause overheating, but practice will have to tell. If it goes wrong, there is two fan mounts on the back that could be equipped (probably in a pushing configuration).

 

 

Also below it, are the power connector (so its cables are bent with a bit of tension), the SATA connectors (OK-ish, they are thinner / less stiff). In the photo above, the CPU plug is still missing, I had to find out that I need to seperate the 8 pin plug for that into two 4 pin ones.

 

In the "ground floor", I plugged in two Seagate Exos X18 (18 TB). I do not really "need" parity, but the space of one is more than I need, so I am not sure yet how I will configure them (one productive, one daily backup / time machine, maybe). Once I retire my Synology, there will be one WD Red (8 TB) and a WD green backup drive (4 TB) to follow, but those are like 5 or 6 years old already.

 

After plugging in the CPU power, Unraid booted fine. The HDDs had ca. 30...32 °C, the M2 40°C, but I had them not actually in use.

But the two HDD fans plugged into the Hotplug plane are actually running at 100 % all the time, and sound like quite a hairdrier - They will have to go, I cannot imaging having those running permanently in a house without basement, even in a side room. I might switch them out for two Noctua 92x25 PWMs, but because it is two of them, it would be 40 bucks. I will do it if they are that much better than the 5 bucks ones (e.g. Xilence) - Maybe someone here has some experiences to compare.

 

I have seen a mod where someone plugged them into the MoBo fan socket, with a Y-cable following a small inline logic chip for speed control. Not sure if the MoBo can control them when they are not in the same compartment as the MoBo itself (The MoBo seems to measure the HDDs' temperature though). Again - If someone has some advice, I'd be happy.

 

So: It is doable. But really consider if it is worth it.

Edited February 11 by madmin

[wohlben]

Hey @madmin, thanks for writing that update!

I literally just ordered a Jonsbo N3 earlier today too, cuz i'm unhappy with my Synology 718+ (&5-port expansion) - mainly because the CPU is so *weak* and docker support is sub-par, making everything a chore I wanna play around with.

 

Really, I literally forgot about the psu while making my shopping card ( Ryzen 5600G,  Corsair 64GB RAM, Noctua NH-L9a, Gigabyte A520 (4 sata), generic m.2 2280 6x SATA expansion card, 1TB WD Black for the M.2 2230 slot)...

Then I started to search, couldn't find anything and came upon your update here.

I literally just cancelled my order for the case.

Couldn't find a single PSU that looked useable while keeing the fan large enough so that its not a noise nightmare.

 

So unfortunate, the case looked great so was already looking forward to the build, but thanks for saving me from all the frustration that i'd have had to suffer through! <3

[madmin]

@wohlben

Glad it helped someone 👍

 

Just to be clear: "It's not worth it" referred to the modding effort - not to the case itself. You know, it really depends on your use case:

 

If you want an straightforward, efiicient, low-noise design, with little cost and effort for modding, there are clearly better options out there.

 

But if you look for a design for an inexpensive miniITX-combo that actually fits into a shelf*, while allowing for many HDDs, including hotswap for e.g. for offsite backup disks, then I would not know of any alternative (not talking about a better alternative, I did not find anything, but tbh, I am new to all this).

 

The small depth of the two-level design being really key here, at the cost that it leaves not enough height for an ATX PSU. And PSX seems to be an area where most manufacturers do not exactly excel. But as @jit-010101 pointed out correctly, that can be solved with alternative power supplies, depending on your use case:

• The picoPSU would limit the drive options; however, there are reports of more than 4 disk builds powering up in parallel with a 160 W picoPSU, if that suffices - Going over peak for a short time works, appearently. Still: It's a 8 HDD +2 SSD bay case, and I did not want to have an external extra coltage converter / cable power supply.
• I have not looked if the HDPlex gan would fit, and only browsed the efficiency report superficially. But they look really promising, and with the new 500 W unit out, you should have enough power to support enough HDDs to populate the case.

The hardest bullet to bite is the 100 or 92 cm double fan design - again, a tribute to the short depth, two-level design - I wondered if you can fit an external larger fan, but then I looked at the power cable and the network ports of the MoBo right in the middle of the back plane and realized there is no way around the design as it is. I bought two Arctic double bearing 92 mm fans with a daisy chain connector, and a fan controller for a few bucks that could control the fan speed via temperature - but it does not work well, the disk temperature sometimes exceeds 45 °C, and the fans do not react (the sensor is not attached to one drive, so it measures compartment instead of disk temperature). But it has a trim resistor for one fan connector, so I will try to find a sufficient smaller permanent speed for the disks inside.

 

Maybe Jonsbo comes up with an even better short depth design where the MoBo is on the bottom or side, and there is only a partial second level for the HDDs (to allow a larger diameter fan in the back). But then they would have to figure out where to place the PSU... While I see many compromises in the design, Jonsbo has really drawn out a lot of a mini-cube/max-function concept. There is really not much freedom of design left, with such a compact 8 hotswap bay NAS case...