Flipping the switch to go from physical to virtual

[smakovits]

So been toying with this whole idea of switching to a virtual unraid server.  Be it Xen or ESX, PCI pass-through is key as I want to make sure I can run other VMs as I eliminate 2 extra servers.  However, once I get things worked out, the biggest question is am I to plan to start fresh and copy data over or will I be able to move my existing system straight into a VM, passing my USB stick through along with all my data drives, just as long as I put them all into the correct slots?

 

I guess I am just trying to get an idea of what I should plan for.  Obviously the direct move is the most dangerous in all of this, but the thought of copying 18TB of data says it might be too late to virtualize.

 

Not sure if my USB and unraid key will even pass-through correctly, so I guess that would be most important to start with.

[sureguy]

If you are running 5.0rc-x, virtualizing is as easy as starting the VM with the necessary hardware being passed through to the VM.

 

I'm running esxi 5.1 and can alternate between booting esxi and unraid by changing my boot media in my bios. The array comes up properly each time.

 

Sent from a phone, sorry for any typos

 

 

[smakovits]

Ok, let me ask the obvious,  how is that possible? Is it all using the same USB? How do you tell the virtual host to boot unraid from an external USB stick? I was under the impression that all Vms run from within a data store on the host.

 

Or,  is unraid All about the configuration of the disks and the data,  everything else is secondary.  So I can have 2 USB sticks,  same data and files and everything would be the same,  I guess this is the only way it seems possible,  unless I am completely missing something in alk of this.

 

Thanks

 

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[vl1969]

Ok, let me ask the obvious,  how is that possible? Is it all using the same USB? How do you tell the virtual host to boot unraid from an external USB stick? I was under the impression that all Vms run from within a data store on the host.

 

Or,  is unraid All about the configuration of the disks and the data,  everything else is secondary.  So I can have 2 USB sticks,  same data and files and everything would be the same,  I guess this is the only way it seems possible,  unless I am completely missing something in alk of this.

 

Thanks

 

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I am  not sure what do you mean here. The way you would virtualize is you would build your vm server using what ever virtualizer you like but paying attwntion ti the hardware as it needs to support pci pass through.  Based on you virtualizer you would either compile your own unraid kernel enabling the vm stuff or find the proper kernel build here on the forum. There are ready vms for esxi, hyper-v and even xenserver/xen here.

Than you would create and configure you flash with all the files from main biuld and replase the bizroor and whatever else with proper kernel files for you hv.buld the vm as per specs for your hv.

Pass through your usb and hdd controller into vm. And boot your vm .you can only have 1 vm per usb/hdd cotroller as you can only pass through all of it to 1 vm at a time.you might be able to clone the vm for back up but not to run them at the same time.

 

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[smakovits]

Yeah,  I probably asked that completely wrong.  I am simply wondering where unraid boys from when virtual,  is it still the USB? My thinking was no,  and only the license is passed from the USB.  I figured this is how when you said you can boot your unraid from vm or bare metal.  Otherwise I would assume the vm compiled unraid would not boot bare metal from the USB and vice versa. If true,  this means that the configuration is in the kernel/vm version for that and the USB as well when doing a bare metal boot. 

 

If I am still confusing the crap out of you then this conversation might be better had when I can boot a vm,  vs just talking about it.

[vl1969]

Yeah,  I probably asked that completely wrong.  I am simply wondering where unraid boys from when virtual,  is it still the USB? My thinking was no,  and only the license is passed from the USB.  I figured this is how when you said you can boot your unraid from vm or bare metal.  Otherwise I would assume the vm compiled unraid would not boot bare metal from the USB and vice versa. If true,  this means that the configuration is in the kernel/vm version for that and the USB as well when doing a bare metal boot. 

 

If I am still confusing the crap out of you then this conversation might be better had when I can boot a vm,  vs just talking about it.

Ahh I see where the confusion begin :-)

 

ok let me explain a bit.

no matter how you run unraid, it boots from USB flash drive.

that is you can conceivably have it to boot from a HardDrive in both baremettal and VM scenario but it is a bit tricky to say the least.(there are help threads exists on this board that can walk you though it if you wish to go that route)

as a matter of fact there is a ESXi thread here that have a fully functioning VM image available for you to download and use in your ESXi setup.

and if you are going with a free setup as in no licence modem you can even run the whole thing from harddrive alone. no usb stick (I am not fully sure how though but I think I have seen the threads here discussing it)

now for a license setup you still need the flash stick as unraid ALWAYS looks for license on usb stick. plus I also believe many plugins will have an issue installing an running from HDD alone.

 

but no mater how you  run it with exception of running as VM

you would use the same kernel. in fact to boot and run from HDD you would simply copy all files from USB stick onto properly formated HDD and boot from it.

you would do that even with the kernel fixed to run as VM too.

the only difference in regualr kernel and one optimized for VM is that the later one includes some drivers and configurations specific for the virtualizer you would be running under. this do not really affect the kernel, just make it aware of things that are specific to running  virtual thus make it run more efficiently. also many if not all Virtual technology do not support booting VM from usb stick, thus special provisioning is needed in the kernel to make that happen.

[smakovits]

Ok,  makes a bit more sense. The vm itself will boot from disk,  but it is still relying on the USB for license and plug-ins.  Can the vm specific version be run bare metal?

 

I guess that's where I was thrown off a bit,  from your initial comment

 

I'm running esxi 5.1 and can alternate between booting esxi and unraid by changing my boot media in my bios. The array comes up properly each time.

 

[vl1969]

Ok,  makes a bit more sense. The vm itself will boot from disk,  but it is still relying on the USB for license and plug-ins.  Can the vm specific version be run bare metal?

 

I guess that's where I was thrown off a bit,  from your initial comment

 

I'm running esxi 5.1 and can alternate between booting esxi and unraid by changing my boot media in my bios. The array comes up properly each time.

 

 

 

Yes the VM specific version can be run bare metal. in-fact you do not even need the hard-drive for VM. most pre-built  VMs I have seen here are setup with small VHD where the boot files are but if you do a PCI pass through of USB controller you can just create a disk-less VM and just boot directly from flash stick.(the XenServer6.2 guade have the kernel files only, you build the VM as per ddeeds  instructions and that's all)

this way if you want to go bare metal just just slap the hardware together, move the usb stick and drives to the new setup and boot. with version 5.0rcX the data drive location does not matter as unraid uses the serial numbers for proper array placement as per config.

[smakovits]

Ah,  brilliant,  thanks for this insight.  Now I need to move my hardware and get ready to break things... Should be fun.

 

As things materialize I will surely have more questions

 

[ironicbadger]

Ah,  brilliant,  thanks for this insight.  Now I need to move my hardware and get ready to break things... Should be fun.

 

As things materialize I will surely have more questions

 

Good luck in your virtualisation endeavours. It took me a good week of learning to get to a fully working system, but now it's up and working I wouldn't go back. My setup is Arch Linux which also runs XBMC via the HDMI out of my motherboard, then Arch runs Xen (the hypervisor) effectively like installing another application (the command to install it is something like 'pacman -S xen-hypervisor-amd64' under Arch). I could wipe, install, setup PCI passthrough in less than 20 minutes now I reckon.

 

The most important decision you'll make is your hypervisor OS. Be it XenServer (a full OS, not to be confused with Xen - 'just' an app), any Linux distro of choice with Xen installed or ESXi you're sure to need to carefully check your hardware requirements. vt-d is a must or iommu to support the passthrough of disk controllers. I'd steer away from raw disk passthrough and just pass the entire controller through, makes life much simpler for unRAID and you.

 

Feel free to hit me up if you need some help.

[vl1969]

Hay, Ironic, nice to hear from you :-)

well you are better off than me I guess.

I still play with my server setup. it still in a half backed status :-D

 

[smakovits]

Nice,  I would debate the Linux with Xen vs xenserver most likely.  However,  my new issue is the hardware.

 

Fired it the system and man was it loud,  immediately pulled the fans. But still the psu fans are still loud.  Thought I could get around that too,  but it is a little rough to put a 4 psu into a 3 u case.  At least that's what I believe they are.  So now I must decide if it is bearable in the back room or not,  otherwise I need to find a psu

[vl1969]

Nice,  I would debate the Linux with Xen vs xenserver most likely.  However,  my new issue is the hardware.

 

Fired it the system and man was it loud,  immediately pulled the fans. But still the psu fans are still loud.  Thought I could get around that too,  but it is a little rough to put a 4 psu into a 3 u case.  At least that's what I believe they are.  So now I must decide if it is bearable in the back room or not,  otherwise I need to find a psu

 

There is a PSU mod floating around where you replace the original with an atx psu. I am thinking of doong that later.  For now I just pulled one psu out and run on one.

 

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[smakovits]

I. Would be curious about the mood,  but in the mean time the one psu idea is good

[vl1969]

Well it works. You only really need one psu at a time,

 

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[smakovits]

If I have and iommu setting in the bios,  does that reveal support of pci pass through? Or is there more involved?

 

The one case I have has 3 psu in it.  The sound is not awful.  It was the 6 jet engines that I couldn't stand,  although it is still noticeable I don't feel like there is a plane taking off next to me.

[smakovits]

Is the power connection from the psu in this case the same as a normal system.  Assume yes,  but anything is possible.

[ironicbadger]

If I have and iommu setting in the bios,  does that reveal support of pci pass through? Or is there more involved?

 

Presence of this setting in the BIOS is not proof your system supports it. Honestly, the easiest way to tell is to install XenServer and follow ddeeds' guide on PCI passthrough there. If it works in XS it'll work anywhere and you're good to start fiddling.

[tr0910]

smakovits - is this a Tams server?  Which one?  What CPU are you using?

 

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[smakovits]

Na,  they are some old cases from work.  They were being thrown out,  so I managed to get them.  I am actually trying to figure out what the case is.

 

I took out the old mobo and there are many more connections than your typical system,  I need to find a manual so I know what needs connected and what doesn't.

 

Decided the existing motherboard doesn't help since my sata cards are pci e and so instead of investing in new cards,  I will repurpose another mobo that I know has pci pass through capabilities

[smakovits]

One thing I just concluded.  Seems it is a supermicro case and it had a supermicro mobo,  because the front panel is a ribbon and not the individual connectors. So it doesn't match my non supermicro motherboard for power switch hd led etc.  Any thoughts?

[StevenD]

One thing I just concluded.  Seems it is a supermicro case and it had a supermicro mobo,  because the front panel is a ribbon and not the individual connectors. So it doesn't match my non supermicro motherboard for power switch hd led etc.  Any thoughts?

 

You need to get your case model number, then figure out which breakout cable you need.  They look like this:

 

 

This particular one is part number  CBL-0084L.  Its the 16-pin one. I believe they also come in a 20-pin.

[smakovits]

That's genius,  do they vary or is 16 pin enough to know?

[StevenD]

That's genius,  do they vary or is 16 pin enough to know?

 

If yours is 16 pins, the one above should work. 

[smakovits]

Ebay,  7.50, ordered.

 

I also managed t locate my case

 

http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/3U/933/SC933T-R760.cfm

 

PSU is triple redundant, 360 x 3, 760 total, so what does that mean for the number of PSUs I need to run at a time? If I can pull 1 or 2 then I obviously cut down the volume greatly.