Help Deciding Between Used Servers

[bnevets27]

I plan on buying one of these 3 servers for unraid and retire the current server I have. The first two are the common TAMS servers.

 

The only difference I'm aware of is:

Dual core has IPMI card = SIM1U+

Quad core has IPMI card = SIM1U, $10 more

 

From TAMS email

I just checked with our tech and he did come across a few with a dual core proc however they do have a different IPMI card which is the SIM1U+ in the server as well so those ones are $339.99.  We are out of the dual cores that we sold before that only had the SIM1U card.

The specs bellow are a little confusing considering the above statement but I don't think the difference is a big deal anyhow and would probably go with the dual core (the IPMI card on that one does KVM)

 

I plan on upgrading the CPU so I was looking to save some cost and go with the $300 dual core they used to sell but they are all out.

 

But they also have this AIC for $149. I'm a little puzzled as to why its so cheap comparatively. Am I missing something or should I jump on that one quick? I can tell its a slightly lower end server and the CPU's are more expensive to upgrade (AMD are about $30 for a 6 core, Intel Quads look to be at least double and more rare), and half as many RAM slots. I know it looks like there are more TAMS AMD server users on the forms which might be a reason to stick with the AMD configuration.

 

Thoughts? I plan to purchase one of these in the next 24hrs or so.

 

 

For $339.99

Backplane: SAS846TQ

 

Processor: AMD Opteron Dual Core 2212 HE

 

# of Procs: 1

 

Speed: 2.0Ghz

 

RAM:  8GB  4x2GB PC2-5300P DDR2, 12 empty slots

 

Hard Drive: None, 24 caddys in the bays.

 

Optical Drive: None

 

Raid Card: SAT2-MV8, Qty 3

 

IPMI Card: SIM1U+, Kira100

 

PSU's: 2 x Ablecom PWS-902-1R

 

 

 

For $349.99

Backplane: SAS846TQ

 

Processor: AMD Opteron Quad Core 2346HE

 

# of Procs: 1

 

Speed: 1.8Ghz

 

RAM: 8GB 4x2GB PC2-5300P DDR2, 12 empty slots

 

Hard Drive: None, 24 caddys in the bays.

 

Optical Drive: None

 

Raid Card: SAT2-MV8, Qty 3

 

IPMI Card: SIM1U+ with AOC-USB2RJ45

 

PSU's: 2 x Ablecom PWS-902-1R

 

 

 

We also have this AIC server as well for $149.99

Chassis: AIC 24 Bay

Motherboard: X7DBE-X

 

Processor: Intel Dual Core E5120

 

Speed: 1.86Ghz

 

RAM: 8GB (4x2GB) Fully Buffered DDR2

 

Hard Drive: None included.

 

Optical Drive: None

 

3 x SAT2-MV8 Raid Controller Cards

 

IPMI Card: Kira 100 SIMLC

 

Power Supplies: Qty 3 Emacs M1W-6500P

[BobPhoenix]

Based on the PDF here you would not get KVM over IP with the included IPMI card with the AIC server if the IPMI card is NOT the "+" version (See note on page 1-5 in PDF).  Another difference is this is 1.8Ghz and dual core processor so 1/2 the cores at the same speed as the quad core.  Doesn't look like the Caddy's are included based on the description either so I would at least ask that.  If they are included it would be a great price just for the case and caddys you could scrape the MB for one more modern and still be ahead.  If the caddys are not included I would skip it as I don't know how hard to find they are or their cost but would expect it to be more than just getting the quad version with caddys.  The descriptions for the quad and faster dual indicate they have the + version of the SIM1U+ so it WOULD do KVM over IP according to this PDF.  Also if you like AMD over Intel you would want to avoid the AIC server.  I personally would use either and am currently using Intel's because for the same processing power they are usually a little cooler.

[vl1969]

hi , I got the quadcore system fro them in May :-)

this are great.

and caddies are included.

 

I got a fully functional server for just abit over $400 dollars.

they were running a special on quad-cores for 320$

and shipping is about 90$

you can check out link in my sig.

 

I see they up the price for dual-core, it used to be $300

 

but any how if you plan on moding it get the less cheaper one.

not sure what the diference with IPMI card on dual core and quadcore.

 

also do plan on moding the PSU.

the PSU in this servers are LOUD. so check the mods in my post for ideas.

 

one more thing : this servers are not 100% VM friendly.

even with the new and updated BIOS I was only able to do a pss thorugh for unraid vm in Xen.

ESXi and XenServer want work.

 

 

 

 

 

[bnevets27]

Thanks Bob!

 

For IPMI that's correct. The only one that has KVM over IP is the AMD dual core with the SIM1U+. In reality I'm not sure how much I need KVM over IP but it would be nice so I would probably pick the AMD dual core over the quad core, seeing as I'm going to replace the CPU anyhow. (Off the top of my head I think I saw 6 cores for $10-$30 and there is a low energy version that uses less energy/produces less heat then the AMD quad)

 

As far as I know the caddy's are usually included with the TAMS servers, though you are correct that it doesn't explicitly say they are included and I should confirm it. I'm not too interested in just the case ATM, I could use the one I currently have and upgrade the internals but if I do that, I would go down the ESXi route which is way more then the cost of the entire server so I figure I'll start here and if I'm unhappy then I'll go down that route and use the server case I will have then.

 

Bearing the fact that all of them come with the caddy's the Intel does sound like a great deal at less then 1/2 the cost of the AMD. It does look to be a little more limited in power (dual 6-core AMD and 16 RAM slots vs dual quad-core Intel 8 RAM slots)

I do have a lot of plugins running, and I just installed plex, which is the main reason for the upgrade (the single core Celeron doesn't have a hope of transcoding) and I would like to play with virtual box or some other VM. But I would assume, dual dual-core or dual quad-core Intel's would be enough, if I could find a good deal on them. I assume as it stands with the AIC server would be underpowered to do the above tasks all alone?

 

Re vl1969:

I've read all your post regarding your purchase. It's helped me decide to bit the bullet and actually purchase one of these. (Been looking at them for about a year now and I did get the email back in may when they were selling them for $320 but wasn't really in the market to buy at that point in time)

I did see that you got hardware pass-though on a specific version of Xen. Another reason I might go with the AMD is you did a lot of testing so that we now all know what works and what doesn't. Do you use Xen on your server? Would you suggest it? I'm just starting to get into the VM world (ESXi would be nice but I'm going to have to pass on it for now due to cost)

[vl1969]

well actually I am still playing with my setup.

I know that I can fall back to using Xen when I am ready, but

I want to use some thing other than Ubuntu as Dom0 for it.

 

as far as me recomending it, it is a great system, but it has some drawbacks.

in compare to ESXi and XenServer.

actually I can only list 2 big one.

 

#1 Setup is not as easy as ESXi or XenServer.

      I had a XenServer    running in 20 min

      I had a ESXi running in 15-20 min

fully functioning and working, ready for VMs.

 

Xen needs some TLC, especially on Ubuntu. as far as I heard.

ddeeds does not recommend Ubuntu as Dom0 at all and I tend to believe he knows what hi is talking about.

 

#2 is Administrative client/GUI. frankly Xen does not have one. and what ever out there exist is not a picnic to setup.

 

now if you are a Linux guy you should be able to figure it out but some one like me can really have a tough time.(what can I say, I am a glutton for punishment.)

 

if I have to use something  I would go with ESXi 5.5 but with the prising and it's very restrictive Hardware compatibility it's not an option for me

(yes I know that the Hypervisor is free, but you need the vSphere in order to administer it as the v5.5 uses the webClient that is not free.)

 

as of now I am not done with my server, however all this struggling with getting unRaid working on it, lead me think that I might be better off just setting a plain distro file server with btrfs Raid 5/6 and just drop the unRaid for a dedicated back system.

 

I am trying this out right now. will see where it leads...

 

 

[bnevets27]

After looking at the CPU's it seems almost a wash. Example bellow.

 

AMD's

Six-Core Opteron 2419  = 75 Watt

Six-Core Opteron 2419 EE = 40 Watt

 

Intel:

Intel® Xeon® Processor Quad L5408 = 40 W

Intel® Xeon® Processor Quad E5420 = 80 W

 

So both have high power/heat and low power/heat versions. Of course the low energy versions a little more expensive but they Intel vs AMD same to be on par for price. But the AMD you get 2 more cores per CPU.  Currently I have on worry about power usage but that may change in the future. For the huge price difference and only slight power capabilities difference the the AIC is looking like a good choice.  More research has lead me to find out that the AIC case is a lot more involved to replace the PSU's with a standard PSU. Looks like that back window/plate has to be replaced with a norco version. Not a deal breaker and ATM I have a room that should contain the noise so the mod shouldn't be necessary. Starting to think I would like KVM of IPMI...

 

 

[vl1969]

What is kvm os ipmi?

What does it give you?

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[BobPhoenix]

KVM over IP (optional component of IPMI or AMD's equivalent) allows me to administer my servers in the basement from my laptop in my living room.  I can watch the servers boot (watch ESXi boot and see if it boots without a problem) and get into the bios without having to hook up a keyboard and monitor or CD rom drive.  I can connect an ISO file of an OS (ESXi install CD) to a virtual CD rom drive and setup ESXi without having to be at the computer.  IPMI itself allows me to get the temps/voltages/fan speeds of everything connected to the MB independent of the OS (ESXi) installed on the machine.  I can shutdown just like I pressed the power button or reset like I pressed a reset button.  The only time I have to be physically present at the box is for hardware changes.

[vl1969]

I had to ask, because I can do all of this on my server.

I got the AMD quad core from TAMS in Jun

and the OP seams to imply that quad core did not have this functionality but Dual core did.

as they do have the same IPMI card in them that sounded strange to me.

 

also I though all IPMI could do this, was I wrong in that assumption?

 

 

[BobPhoenix]

I had to ask, because I can do all of this on my server.

I got the AMD quad core from TAMS in Jun

and the OP seams to imply that quad core did not have this functionality but Dual core did.

as they do have the same IPMI card in them that sounded strange to me.

 

also I though all IPMI could do this, was I wrong in that assumption?

I believe your assumption is wrong.  My X7SBE has an IPMI card slot similar to the TAMS MBs listed by OP.  It's not built into MB.  It's been a while since I've even used my X7SBE MBs but I think the IPMI card I bought for them was the same SIM1U+ card listed for OP's AMD options (was approximately $90 purchase for each X7SBE - had 3-4 of them).  It allows full KVM over IP (with graphics).  The other IPMI card compatible with my X7SBE (might be the SIMLC on the Intel option) only allows text mode communication - so it may allow you to change the bios as long as it is only text (which X7SBE and OP MB bios's would be) - I just don't know for sure.  But it wouldn't allow you to see a graphical boot like HyperV or a XWindows Linux boot OS running a VM host.  I also don't think you get the remote media (floppy image/CDROM image) but I could be wrong about that.  In any case the manual for the SIMLC card specifically states that KVM over IP is only available for the "+" version of the card.  So unless it was just SuperMicro marketing hype to get you to buy the more expensive card I would not expect it to work with the Intel offering in OP.

[vl1969]

I believe your assumption is wrong.  My X7SBE has an IPMI card slot similar to the TAMS MBs listed by OP.  It's not built into MB.  It's been a while since I've even used my X7SBE MBs but I think the IPMI card I bought for them was the same SIM1U+ card listed for OP's AMD options (was approximately $90 purchase for each X7SBE - had 3-4 of them).  It allows full KVM over IP (with graphics).  The other IPMI card compatible with my X7SBE (might be the SIMLC on the Intel option) only allows text mode communication - so it may allow you to change the bios as long as it is only text (which X7SBE and OP MB bios's would be) - I just don't know for sure.  But it wouldn't allow you to see a graphical boot like HyperV or a XWindows Linux boot OS running a VM host.  I also don't think you get the remote media (floppy image/CDROM image) but I could be wrong about that.  In any case the manual for the SIMLC card specifically states that KVM over IP is only available for the "+" version of the card.  So unless it was just SuperMicro marketing hype to get you to buy the more expensive card I would not expect it to work with the Intel offering in OP.

 

ok, on my system  from TAMS

AMD Opteron Quad Core 2346HE @ 1.8GHz (full spec is in the  new system link in my sig)

 

the IPMI is an add on card in the special slot on MB.

it is Kira 100, and although I am not sure the full spec as it was not given to me at the time ,and I never looked, I would have to guess it is the one with KVM.

 

I do everything from IPMI utility I download from Super Micro website.

the only thing I did directly from the attached monitor and keyboard was actually setup IPMI card and flush the BIOS.

 

I have reconfigure BIOS settings from my home office PC

I have installed multiple OS from it

I can attach local drives/CD/DVD  or ISO to my server from Office PC

reset,shutdown the server, power it up.

monitor hardware status  Fans/Temps

 

I can see all the boot sequence as it happens.

and  I can see System boot up for all I have tried so far

Ubuntu,Opensuse,XenServer

 

I have full keyboard and mouse passed to the server and to the systems.

when I am using it, with a full GUI install it is like having an RDP session into the server but adds the full boot cycle to it from power on through the BIOS splash screen all the way to OS boot.

 

so I assume my card have full KVM capabilities.

 

and so should the one in OP post as it seams to be the same setup as mine for quad core system.

 

 

the only thing I don't get is clipboard copy paste function from my PC to the server :-), it such a drag that when I need to work with CLI, I SSH into it using TeraTerm or PuTy so I can copy/paste command from web forums :-D

 

 

 

[BobPhoenix]

I would agree the card you got is probably the SIM1U+ that has KVM over IP.  Why they ever made one without seems strange to me especially with all the built in ones that seem to include it now.  I suppose it was just normal feature advancements with newer versions having it and older versions not.

[bnevets27]

Thanks all. I just put my order in for the AIC Intel. The Supermicro AMD's look to be a lot better/easier case to mod for the home environment and a little nicer upgrade ability. But for how cheap the AIC Intel was it was a no brainier (yes it comes with the caddies). I'll see how it sounds stock and go from there. I have access to a machine shop so any mods won't be any trouble anyhow. I'll definitely be upgrading the CPU, probably dual quad cores only because they are so cheap.  I asked for a SIM1U+ card because I would like KVM but they didn't have any they were willing to add to my order. I've lived without IPMI and KVM for this long so I think I'll survive. I did use IPMI KVM when I built a supermicro server to sell and for the little while I used it I really liked it.

 

Now to decide on a CPU. If what Pourko says is true, and I have seen the said before. Then I don't see a reason to go for the low power versions, seeing as they will probably be at idle 90% of the time. So I'll look for highest speed at a reasonable price. Any reason to go with dual dual-core over dual quad-core?

 

This is obvious I'm sure but dual-cores at a higher clock rate then there quad-core counterparts are much cheaper.

Example

1.86Ghz-2.33Ghz quad-core = $15-25 each

3.0Ghz dual-core = $15 for a pair

 

Would a pair of 3.0ghz dual-cores be better then say a pair of 1.86Ghz quad-cores? The only thing I seem them doing in the short term is trancoding for plex and of course a bunch of plugins but I don't think any of them tax the CPU's. Eventually some VM's probably if don't turn out to be a huge hassle, maybe just vitualbox.

[BobPhoenix]

If you have the budget when you are done the SIM1U+ is available from a third part Amazon seller here.  Or Server's Direct here.  With Server's Direct being cheaper.  Neither of which is where I got mine but I will have to wait until I get home tonight to see if they still carry it.

[bnevets27]

I might have to wait and see what happens over the next little while. I've already started looking at a different motherboard  From what I can gather there are a few motherboards that support VT-d with the Xenon 5000 LGA771 series CPU's. If I mange to score one for cheap I might be swapping out the supermicro board. Its probably going to end up as an experiment but the CPU's are cheap and if the motherboard is cheap enough it might be worth it because I can at least reuse the raid cards. It might be possible to get ESXi to run on this generation of hardware but I am by no means well educated in this area.

[BobPhoenix]

I had ESXi 4.? running on a X7SBE 775 MB with a Q9550S so it is a possibility.  I did have to update the bios to the latest (at the time anyway) 2.0a version to get it to work.  It worked well for unRAID VM but not so well on Windows VM running along side it.  I think the unRAID VM would have run forever if I wasn't having problems on the Windows VM that required a ESXi host reboot to fix.  If I had a Xeon and ECC memory I probably wouldn't have had a problem on the X7SBE MB.

[tr0910]

As far as I know, nobody has got ESXi running on the Tams AIC Xeon systems. I've got 3 and would love a VM solution that can use most of the hardware. VL1969 has got the Amd version running Xen with a lot of hair pulling.  I hope you can get something working.

 

I'm happy with mine as they are only used for backup. The IPMI cards don't do full KVM but work fine for remote start up and shut down.  Mine get woke up at 1am via IPMI and run 2 hours doing a backup then shut down via IPMI

 

Sent from my mobile

 

 

[bnevets27]

I'm currently looking at what I can figure out. So far all is just based on documentation and nothing real world. So far I have found 2 motherboards that look like they should work. From what I can tell that should be the only component that has to be replaced. Now there is one caveat so far I have found with both boards, they only have 2 PCI-X slots so your down to 18 drives. Now the upside is they have PCI-E x16. I'm going to put all the documentation together and see if I can snag a board for a decent price that looks to fit the bill. My server hasn't even been shipped and in reality I don't need ESXi or VM's but would like to try.

[vl1969]

I think esxi is not a good way to go. With all that going on with vmware I would go with xenserver at least.

 

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 4

 

 

[mobias1313]

I also have one of the TAMS AMD Supermicro servers and if you do not have a room in a basement or somewhere that you will be able to put the server out of the way, you will definitely want to plan on modding that system. With the AIC case you will want to order the Norco 120mm fan wall and back window. Neither are difficult to replace. I wish they had the AIC when I purchased mine I would have ended up buying two instead. I did the fan wall mod on my Supermicro case and it made a world of a difference in noise and airflow. Although on the Supermicro case there is more involved when replacing the fan wall than there is with the AIC.

[tr0910]

I think esxi is not a good way to go. With all that going on with vmware I would go with xenserver at least.

 

You didn't have it easy though. We aren't all ready for the experience you had. I don't mind replacing the guts if we have to, but would love a solution that can work with what we all have.

 

I have three Aic Xeon 5120 systems and 2 Supermicro Amd systems.

 

Sent from my mobile

 

 

[bnevets27]

I also have one of the TAMS AMD Supermicro servers and if you do not have a room in a basement or somewhere that you will be able to put the server out of the way, you will definitely want to plan on modding that system. With the AIC case you will want to order the Norco 120mm fan wall and back window. Neither are difficult to replace. I wish they had the AIC when I purchased mine I would have ended up buying two instead. I did the fan wall mod on my Supermicro case and it made a world of a difference in noise and airflow. Although on the Supermicro case there is more involved when replacing the fan wall than there is with the AIC.

 

I do have a room in the basement but the basement is also used, it has nice solid brick walls so I should be fine, if not then I'll start modding. I'll probably will do some mods anyhow for air flow. I have an idea in mind but I'll wait until I actually have the server in hand. Its not going to be something I would suggest others to do though as it will involve machining.

[vl1969]

unfortunately moding  the Aic  case might prove to be difficult, I think some one on hard-forums already tried it

[bnevets27]

unfortunately moding  the Aic  case might prove to be difficult, I think some one on hard-forums already tried it

 

I'm a machinist by trade and have access to a machine shop, won't be a problem. Now is the effort worth it, that I'm sure I'll find out.

[tr0910]

unfortunately moding  the Aic  case might prove to be difficult, I think some one on hard-forums already tried it

 

There is good info on av-forums about modding both kinds of Tams servers.

 

I prefer the easy route, just unplug fans until you can stand the noise and then monitor the temps. If they are acceptable, you're done. These things have way more fans than we need unless you are running old hot drives in a permanent parity sync

 

Sent from my mobile