Thoughts on Lian-Li PC-Q25B Builds

[mr-hexen]

Asus H87I-PLUS + Haswell i3 = cheap ESXi server

 

the Original SFF "separating unraid from xbmc".

 

what about, combining unraid and xbmc using ESXi on a system like this??

[Qtrmeg]

Qtrmeg => I presume you're aware that you can run all of your pre-clears at the same time  [Actually I don't recommend running more than 3-at-once; but since you only have 3 drives ...  ]

Much less of a hassle -- especially if you're doing multiple cycles.

 

You just have to switch to a different window to start each one.

 

I did see that you can run multiple pre-clears, using Screen so it runs in the background off the network? I really don't know how yet because up to this point I have only been concerned with what to use, not how to use it, (so I am sure a flood of stupit newb questions are soon to follow).

 

I haven't received the PS or drives yet but I did put the MB in the case>>>

 

 

I doubt it is worth doing another build thread but I can tell you what I have seen so far. There have been many variations of this case but it seems that they have settled on a version, because my case seems to be like all of the other recent builds. Phillipppp's Colossus build has a lot of good photos of this case w/ the Asus 1155 MB >>>http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=28860.0

 

Oh, one concern I had when picking out parts was if memory with a tall heat shield would fit. Not to worry, at least with a SFF power supply.

 

The Haswell motherboard has the sata and power connections in different spots - both on the drive cage side edge with sata on the bottom, instead of power on the bottom edge with sata on the top middle.  I'm going to steal one of Phillipppps photos, (I hope he doesn't mind), so you don't have to hunt to see what I mean. I doubt it makes much difference but it looks to be easier to add sata cables with the 1155 board, cable management might be nicer with the Haswell. I don't have the PS yet so maybe I won't have to pull it to add cables, we'll see.

 

 

As for cable management? All of the builds with an atx power supply have the extra cables stuffed on top of the power supply, blocking the top case fan, and stuffed between the drive cage & PS, blocking airflow across the drive cage and general case airflow. These aren't cheap builds and it seems that the power supply isn't the right place to save a few bucks. Down the road the airflow is what will help keep your hard drives lasting, (the most expensive part of any of these builds),  and your data the safest, (priceless).

 

I did have a stupit newb question right now. Does it matter where I locate the drives, (or for that matter which sata connection goes to which drive)? This is going to be a 3 phase build for me where phase 2 has 5 drives, so at least to that point I'd like to use the 5 drive cage. I was thinking because the parity drive is the busiest to keep it in the coolest spot, which looks to be on the bottom of the cage. Then of course you would stack the drives from the top 1-4, except the top slot looks to be the hottest drive location, because it isn't in front of the fan and its at the top.

 

I'm overthinking this, right?

 

[garycase]

As for cable management? All of the builds with an atx power supply have the extra cables stuffed on top of the power supply, blocking the top case fan, and stuffed between the drive cage & PS, blocking airflow across the drive cage and general case airflow. These aren't cheap builds and it seems that the power supply isn't the right place to save a few bucks. Down the road the airflow is what will help keep your hard drives lasting, (the most expensive part of any of these builds),  and your data the safest, (priceless).

 

Agree -- it's simply FAR too crowded with an ATX power supply.  As you apparently know, although it seems from your picture you're using one anyway      An SFX unit makes a LOT more sense with this case -- not crowded at all; plenty of airflow; etc.

 

 

Does it matter where I locate the drives, (or for that matter which sata connection goes to which drive)?

 

Really makes no difference.  I always mount the parity drive on the bottom tray (gets excellent airflow from air pulled into the case through the bottom vents);  and the other drives in the hot-swap cage.  I've seen NO difference in temps between the different positions on the hot-swap cage ... even the topmost one is fine.

 

[Qtrmeg]

Agree -- it's simply FAR too crowded with an ATX power supply.  As you apparently know, although it seems from your picture you're using one anyway      An SFX unit makes a LOT more sense with this case -- not crowded at all; plenty of airflow; etc.

 

I did use the PS you recommended, that second picture was from another build, only to show the different layout from the new Haswell board.

 

I got the rest of the parts y'day and finished putting it together. As for noise from the PS, what noise? I have lights noisier than this computer.

 

One thing about this new board that stands out, with the sata connections on the bottom corner you can add/change cables with the PS installed. That's good for me because I didn't order any sata cables, and even better because I think I can use these >>>

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119365

 

Those cables will feed directly to the backplane, even the 5th one by using the bottom inside sata connection, (below the memory, because these mem slots only have one clip at the top).

 

[garycase]

Definitely nice that you can reach the SATA ports without having to pull the PSU [Clearly not something you could do with an ATX unit  ].    I gather the SATA connectors on the backplane work okay with standard right-angle SATA cables (based on the connectors you plan to use).    Look carefully to be sure -- if you happen to need left-hand connectors, I posted a link to get those earlier in this thread.

 

BTW, if you'd post the length of cable you need it'd be helpful -- I'm actually going over to a friend's this afternoon to order the parts to build a Haswell Q25B setup for him that will be exactly like yours except with more drives and an i5 

[Qtrmeg]

Definitely nice that you can reach the SATA ports without having to pull the PSU [Clearly not something you could do with an ATX unit  ].    I gather the SATA connectors on the backplane work okay with standard right-angle SATA cables (based on the connectors you plan to use).    Look carefully to be sure -- if you happen to need left-hand connectors, I posted a link to get those earlier in this thread.

 

I tried a longer right angle cable I had and it works fine on both ends, o/c on the backplane the higher ones cover the lower ones but they don't cover the power connections.

 

BTW, if you'd post the length of cable you need it'd be helpful -- I'm actually going over to a friend's this afternoon to order the parts to build a Haswell Q25B setup for him that will be exactly like yours except with more drives and an i5 

 

The only ,(black), double right angle cables I found were 10" so all I did was confirm they worked.  If you find some that are 6" you could probably use 2-3 of them on the bottom.

[Qtrmeg]

Gary, not for nothing, but could you take a picture of the backplane of yours that needed left angle sata cables? No hurry but I was trying to figure out why they were neccessary. Are the sata ports vertical?

[garycase]

Yes, the SATA connectors are vertical, and facing the wrong way for a standard right-angle connector.  I'll take a picture later and post it later.

 

The same site that sells the left-hand cables also has standard right-angle cables in lengths as short as 4", so you can get the lengths you need to make things as neat as possible -- 4", 6", 8", 10", 12", 14", etc.

 

http://www.cpustuff.com/sata-cable-right-angle-to-sata-cable-straight-black/

 

[garycase]

Here's a picture that shows the Left-Hand SATA connections.

 

[Qtrmeg]

The same site that sells the left-hand cables also has standard right-angle cables in lengths as short as 4", so you can get the lengths you need to make things as neat as possible -- 4", 6", 8", 10", 12", 14", etc.

 

http://www.cpustuff.com/sata-cable-right-angle-to-sata-cable-straight-black/

 

Right, but not with right angle on both ends. Unless I am missing something they are pretty rare in short lengths, and the 10" ones will work fine. Well, we''ll see, the ones I ordered should be in soon.

 

Thanks for the picture. You just might have a rare prototype that will be worth a fortune someday, after you finish making these builds a household item.

 

Edited to add picture of the backplane we have been seeing lately, and is probably what you should expect to receive>>>

 

 

 

[garycase]

Yes, I've seen the newer version of the backplane.    I've built about 6 systems with the Q25B ... the first two had the backplanes like mine does (requiring left-hand cables);  the rest had the (I assume) newer version of the backplane.

 

Actually, the version that requires left-hand cables allowed for a "neater" running of the cables, since they are "headed in the right direction" (towards the motherboard) after they're plugged in.  The hassle was finding left-hand cables 

 

[Qtrmeg]

My sata cables finally came in so I was able to finish this up, (Haswell build). I'm not an expert but I'll show you what I did.  This is the parts list >>> http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Qtrmeg/saved/2CZG There were enough zip ties supplied with the parts I bought but I also used some velco sticky tabs & ties.

 

At the top you can see the ATX power and the top fan lead connected to the board, I velcro tied these together and held them out of the way with a velcro sticky tab on the back top corner of the case. - On the bottom-right you can see the short case speaker that I zip tied to the case power & led leads, and then used the same velcro trick to fasten the power/led wires to the bottom of the drive cage. When I was first messing around deciding on sata cables I knocked the power leads loose, plus the case wires dangled down. They should be fine now.

 

 

 

The one Velcro trick on the top left keeps the ATX & top fan wires wrapped around the fan and completely out of the way. The red circle is the flash drive, velcro'd to the PS. Downright cavernous in there.

 

 

 

I powered the front fan by using the bottom molex connector on the backplane, and ziptied the slack onto the sata power cables. - As for the data cables: I tested a right angle cable to the 2 inside MB sata connectors but the cables I got don't fit, so you do need a straight cable off the MB for those 2 ports, and you will need to use one of them to fill the backplane, (8-12", depending on how high on the backplane). The 10" double right angle cables work fine for the 4 sata connectors on the edge. I'm not in love with how these cables are going to fit once I add the other 2 drives, it seems like the lower 2 will be too long. I did see some round right/right cables that might work better, (also 10"), but I think the best solution might be to use straight ends off the backplane so you can buy the lengths you want. I dunno, but I look forward to see how other people handle this.

 

 

 

I probably shouldn't show this one but I cut the PCI cables off the power supply, (don't blame me it was Gary's idea). I tried not to be a hack about it. I cut each wire slightly longer than the last, taped yellow & black separately, and then taped both to the ATX power cable.  While I was pruning I snipped off the floppy connector, which got me to thinking  it might be nice to change the molex power cable to sata.

 

 

 

[garycase]

Looks fine -- except (unless you snapped the picture before you finished) you didn't cable all of the drive slots in the backplane.    Even if you don't have drives installed, you should do this NOW so when you want to add a drive it's just a matter of plugging it in 

[Qtrmeg]

Good point but I wasn't 100% sure those 10" cables would work so I only got 3. I know, stupid, but it is simple to add/remove cables. I am going to raise those top 2 drives & cables up when I add the next 2 drives so I'll fiddle with it then.

[garycase]

which got me to thinking  it might be nice to change the molex power cable to sata.

 

Good idea => the next build I do with this, I'm going to do exactly that.  What I've been using for the drive on the bottom tray is simply the molex connector with a molex -> SATA adapter; but it would be much nicer to simply pop off the molex connector and replace it with a SATA connector 

 

By the way, cutting off the floppy power connector was also a good idea.  No reason to have it -- you're certainly never going to install a floppy drive in this case !!

 

[Apocrathia]

Yes, I've seen the newer version of the backplane.    I've built about 6 systems with the Q25B ... the first two had the backplanes like mine does (requiring left-hand cables);  the rest had the (I assume) newer version of the backplane.

 

Actually, the version that requires left-hand cables allowed for a "neater" running of the cables, since they are "headed in the right direction" (towards the motherboard) after they're plugged in.  The hassle was finding left-hand cables 

 

I just ordered my Q25B and I was curious about this one myself. I can get ahold of regular SATA cables all day, and I was just planning on using those. Can you tell me if the space between the backplane and cover is enough for a safe bend radius? I'm hoping I'll have the newer design with the right-angle oriented plugs if I do need to get angled cables.

[garycase]

It's much better to use angled cables on the backplane.    I THINK (but am not certain) that they're only shipping the versions like Qtrmeg has that work fine with right-angled SATA cables;  but if by chance you get one that needs the left-hand cables, there's no problem with that => just buy them from the link I provided earlier.

 

[Qtrmeg]

It's much better to use angled cables on the backplane.    I THINK (but am not certain) that they're only shipping the versions like Qtrmeg has that work fine with right-angled SATA cables;  but if by chance you get one that needs the left-hand cables, there's no problem with that => just buy them from the link I provided earlier.

 

I'm pretty sure the the case I bought is the latest version, which I would expect because Newegg probably sells more of these than anyone else. But let's say you happened upon one that needed left angle cables for the backplane and used a motherboard like mine, with the sata ports on the edge. I doubt you will find left angle to right angle sata cables so you are going to have to decide what gets the angle end of the available cables, the motherboard or the backplane.

 

You definately want a right angle cable off those 4 ports on the edge of the MB. I tried both straight and angle cables and being right next to the drive cage the bend is too much with straight ends. The 5th cable you need to fill the drive cage needs a straight end to the MB, so the backplane end of that cable could be left.

 

Anyhow, there was a question about using straight ends on the backplane. Ya, no problem. You have over 1 1/2" to the side cover >>>

 

 

Obviously you could buy 5 18" standard cables and be good to go with anything, but with this build it is expected that you will be opening the case and taking out the bottom drive tray, etc. You don't want loose/dangling/extra cables whenever you can help it. That said I don't think you can go wrong with 4/10" right to right cables and 1/10" right to straight cable for the new case.

 

I still want to see what Gary thinks when he works on this combo. Short of being able to buy custom sata cables I think the ultimate clean install would be straight ends to the backplane, so you could buy some shorter cables.

[garycase]

Yes, it definitely looks like you have to use right-angle connectors on that motherboard.    As long as your backplane also supports right-angle connectors, there's no problem finding right-angle to right-angle SATA connections.

 

But IF you should happen to get one of the backplanes that need left-angle SATA connections, you're not out of luck !!        Except for the fact they're longer than you need (but it's easier to wrap extra length than it is to use the wrong angles), here is a source for a left-angle to right-angle cable:

http://www.pchcables.com/5me2leantori.html

 

[garycase]

I still want to see what Gary thinks when he works on this combo. Short of being able to buy custom sata cables I think the ultimate clean install would be straight ends to the backplane, so you could buy some shorter cables.

 

I actually thought I'd be building one this week; but my friend decided he wanted a larger case to accommodate a couple optical drives and more hard drives, so we used a Fractal Define R4 (a very nice case, by the way, for a uATX build).    But based on your picture, I'd agree that simply using right-angle to straight cables is what works best for that motherboard => and the same source I gave you for left-angle cables sells right-angle to straight cables in your choice of 6", 8", 10", 12", or 14" => so you can buy exactly what you need to eliminate any extra cable to deal with.

 

[Qtrmeg]

Wow, no kidding? I couldn't even find replacement sata data connections.

 

I still look forward to seeing what you use once you get your hands on the parts.

[mr-hexen]

i was helping a friend with his QNAP TS-212 (i know, i know, blasphemy) and i saw these inside.

 

http://shop.qnap.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=76

 

pricey, but their only 3-4" long.

[garycase]

i was helping a friend with his QNAP TS-212 (i know, i know, blasphemy) and i saw these inside.

 

http://shop.qnap.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=76

 

pricey, but their only 3-4" long.

 

$30 for a short SATA cable !! 

 

Take your pick -- 4", 6", 8"  ... $1.89 each at the link I gave you for left-hand cables 

[henris]

I'm planning to use Akasa ProSlim cables on all future PC-Q25B builds. It has a very short and compact locking plug. Combined with thin and very flexible cable part makes it perfect for tight cases. It's available in 15, 30 and 50cm lengths and black and blue colors. I experimented with over a dozen different types (round/sleeved etc.) of SATA-3 cables from different quality manufacturers (Silverstone, NZXT, BitFenix, Akasa) and ProSlim was a clear winner from usability point of view. At the moment I don't have extensive experience when it comes to endurance (mechanical, electrical) but the external quality is convincing.

 

http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Cables&type_sub=SATA%20Cables&model=AK-CBSA05-BK

[Apocrathia]

It's much better to use angled cables on the backplane.    I THINK (but am not certain) that they're only shipping the versions like Qtrmeg has that work fine with right-angled SATA cables;  but if by chance you get one that needs the left-hand cables, there's no problem with that => just buy them from the link I provided earlier.

 

Got my PC-Q25B in and it had the horizontal plugs. QC date is July 2013, so it's a newer model. Also, got these cables. 5x right angle SATA cables for $2.99 with free shipping. Perfect for these cases. http://www.ebay.com/itm/300852735839