Silverstone DS380 build [Crux] Advice first, pictures later

[steve.c7677]

Hi all,

 

Im pulling the trigger on my new build and hoping for some advice.

 

I only know as much as I've read on these forums. I've been using a basic unraid setup for 3 years and only managed to fill 4-5 TB.  What I love about it the most is the 'set and forget' appliance like mentality. What I don't like about my current setup is the need to dedicate another pc for downloading, caching, and renaming tasks. With this build I'm looking to consolidate the two, expand the array, quieten the noise, and reduce the size of the server. Xen virtualization in a SFF case seems the way to go.

 

The server doesn't need to do much, i would like to keep it simple. Perhaps 1 VM with Ubuntu for all XBMC related appliances and 1 for pfSense. I only use the server for XBMC and I only run one instance of xbmc. In the future i will run many instances.

 

For now I am interested in the following services:

 

 

uTorrent

Sickbeard;

Couchpotato;

sabNZB;

HeadPhones;

centralized XBMC library with thumbnails (MySQL); and

pfSense;

 

 

I have been reading lots of garycase's posts and my build is similar to a few other recent ones here. So I think i'm confident on the following parts:

 

Case: Silverstone DS380

CPU: Intel Xeon E3 1230 v3

MOBO: ASRock E3C226D2I LGA 1150 Mini-ITX

RAM: 16GB  Kingston 8GB ECC KVR16E11/8

PSU: 450W Silverstone SST-ST45SF-G

HDDs: WD Reds 4tb

USB Key: Sandisk Cruzer Fit 8GB

 

A few questions,

 

1. Can anyone give advice on a SSD cache drive? I could never see myself downloading more than 150 GB in one day, ever. However my XBMC userdata folder keeps growing at an alarming rate, its currently at 12 GB. I'm not sure how much space VM OS' and their appliances would require yet. I'm thinking 256 GB drive will do, just wondering what models people recommend?

 

2. Have i overbuilt, underbuilt, bottlenecked or fogot any parts on this build. Can I replace that MB with a cheaper AMD solution, i cant find it in stock atm. Its my first time building a PC so go easy. I know there is a SATA extender I will need to insure all the HDD's can be accomodated, can anyone throw me a newegg link for that or any thing else.

 

Cheers

 

Edit update ([glow=red,2,300]26/9/14[/glow])

Ongoing, cable management photos and server build in progress

[dmacias]

I've seen a couple threads with similar or exact hardware and I would get exactly the same.  I have the same case and the bronze version of the power supply.  If I had to say something was overkill, I'd say the flash drive. I have a 4GB version and I use less than 500MB. But they are probably the same price so who cares.

 

Just a couple thoughts on the case and motherboard.  If you leave the magnetic filter on the side stock fans your drives will run hot.  Either get new fans and run at a fixed rpms or remove the filter or both. For the motherboard, make sure you upgrade to the latest bios and update the BMC which is a separate download you upgrade through the webgui of the ipmi console. There's a bug with the fans going full speed.

 

As far as SSD, 256 should be good.  Brand or model I don't know.  I have 2 Corsair 120's. One for cache and one for vm's but I also have 12 sata ports. My vm is only 10GB but I mount an 80GB data partition inside for downloads which are automatically transferred to the cache drive when completed.

[Rick Sanchez]

As your build is exactly the same as mine it will work great

[steve.c7677]

As your build is exactly the same as mine it will work great

 

Thats great to hear!

 

@dmacias - Thanks for the bios tip i didnt know about that bug. In regards to the fan filters, running the HDD's hot will shorten their life im guessing, however im about 200 feet from the ocean here and my last unraid box has turned from black to gold in under 3 years. I was looking forward to using those filters to keep the sea salt out, but not at the cost of drive failures or extra noise. This new server will be placed in a cabinet with ventilation, so maybe i'll have to explore putting the filters on the cabinet vents. Either way thanks for that tip too.

 

Also i've never cached before either so can i ask, why the two SSD's? You transfer files from their native DL folder to the cache drive, then you use the mover tool to move them a second time to your array drives? Do you recommend this way?

[dmacias]

I misplaced the filter but when I find it I'm going to try raising the rpms of the side fans from 800 rpms.  The rear I run on auto.

 

The SSD setup I have now is just because I have extra ports and $.  I started with 1 60 GB then 2 then upgraded cache to 120GB then upgraded other one to 120. When cache pool becomes available I'll probably pool them.  But yes right now I download everything inside the vm to an 80GB partition then move to cache then mover to array. Its better than downloading everything through smb to cache.  Right now I'm also experimenting with docker and downloading straight to cache.

 

I'm happy with the system I have now but if I were to do it again I would get exactly what you're getting.  With the 256GB cache and 5 4TB you'll have 16TB of protected array.  I only have 12TB now. 

 

What I recommend is, if you do a vm for apps that you add a suitable separate partition inside the vm for downloads.  For me this helped eliminate hammering the xen network and causing rocket rides along with disabling network cpu off load within the vm.

[steve.c7677]

I'll remember to partition the cache drive, thank you.

 

I'm going to grab these parts tomorrow when the shops open over here. After reading through yours and Jomps Avoton build thread im hoping for a few less issues.

 

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=18779

 

Can anyone say, is that the type of SATA card i should be looking at to fit 7x3.5" HDD and 1x2.5" SSD in my server? The mobo will be the E3C226D2I

http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C226D2I

 

 

Also, after reading a few reviews i think the Samsung 840 evo pro 256gb might be a good choice.

 

[dmacias]

I may be the only one running this board still.  It's run well since my initial problems and new 6b6 has fixed throughput tremendously. As far as the cache drive I meant you create an 80GB data.img file to import into the vm. Yesterday though I moved sab, sick, couch, deluge & headphones along side xbmc to docker containers and left mysql, apache and mythtv in an ubuntu vm.

 

For sata cards all I know is try not to get anything with a marvell chipset.

[steve.c7677]

Thanks for that. Im still trying to figure out where to get the mobo from. Over here in Australia its twice the price as US. Newegg says they ship here but wont ship that mobo to Aus? I have setup a shipito account and testing their service with a nano wifi replacement dongle for my sister, if they lose that i cant really blame them its the size of a thumbnail... but still. I have ordered almost all the other parts locally so I'll be ready to start building in a months time or so.

[frankip]

Hi Steve,

 

I am building the exact same build, and am in Aus as well and came accross the same issue getting the MB.  I ended up buying from a US EBAY seller, it was $252 US, delivered.  It has taken a couple of weeks to get here (Still not here but due on the 21st).  I havent decided on any SATA/SAS card for it yet, and not in a great rush to build it as I'm waiting on v6 to become more stable.

 

Also went for the Seagate NAS drives as they were cheaper for me to get.

 

Cheers

Frank

[steve.c7677]

Hey Frank glad to see some one else with the same problems  Mine got here in 9 days from the buy now button on amazon to my residential address on the Gold Coast. Used Shipito and TNT priority, cost about $265 all up. How is your build going?

 

All parts received and build in progress. Little confused on how to best control the speed of the 3 case fans. Mobo can only connect two of them and the backplane does not allow for speed control (from what I can gather) Should I get a fan controller? Won't that take up one of my 3.5" bays?

 

I'm not too interested in building a quiet server, but I'm not interested in having the case fans run at max for no reason either.

 

If the system is too loud ill upgrade the stock side fans for the noctua NF-P12 pwm's. I'm just not sure the best way to control fan speed if only two plug into the mb. Ideally I can find a rock solid professional thermally controlled solution.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Also can anyone tell me which way to plug in the font panel hd audio connector to the motherboard speaker header? Has 9 pins (1 dummy) on the cable and 4 pins with no pos/neg markings on the board 

[dmacias]

I would run the side fans off the back plane till you know if they can keep your drives cool and rear off motherboard.  The side filter is very restrictive.  Then if you want better upgrade to noctua and use a controller for the side fans only. I run my noctuas at about 1100 rpms and it's not quiet but not extremely loud.  I have the filter on.  Without the filter I could run quieter.

[steve.c7677]

Thanks again for that Dmacias, she's up and running now and I'm just trying to update the bios and bmc you mentioned earlier. Right now I'm just trying to update the bios, the ipmi setup isn't going well so far. I have packet loss and time out errors on my LAN when I ping the server and this is causing session time outs when I try to log into the Megarac web GUI.

 

What is the best way to update the bios? Did you grab all the latest versions for windows, dos, instant flash and install them via flash drive? I see the BMC update is there too.

[dmacias]

I put both latest bios and bmc on a usb stick.  I updated the bios from inside the bios instant flash and bmc through megarac webgui. I never had ipmi packet loss but I updated the boys immediately.

[frankip]

My build is going OK, just trying to find some time to finish it off.

 

Everything is in the case...jeez its tight in there!!

 

I need to dive back in there and tidy everything up, possibly by getting some smaller SATA cables. 

 

Also thinking of getting a SATA card now and putting it in, so i don't have to open the thing up again.  Any recommendations on what works well?

 

I'm not in any great hurry at the moment, due to an impending house move, and waiting for v6.0 to get closer to final. 

 

[frankip]

Thanks again for that Dmacias, she's up and running now and I'm just trying to update the bios and bmc you mentioned earlier. Right now I'm just trying to update the bios, the ipmi setup isn't going well so far. I have packet loss and time out errors on my LAN when I ping the server and this is causing session time outs when I try to log into the Megarac web GUI.

 

What is the best way to update the bios? Did you grab all the latest versions for windows, dos, instant flash and install them via flash drive? I see the BMC update is there too.

 

I am having similar issues to you.  I currently don't have a monitor in the house to set this up, no problem I thought, I will just use the IPMI.  After a few hours I couldn't get it to work at all reliably.  Definitely couldn't get it to bring up the console and get into the BIOS.  Looks like I will have to go Old Skool and get a hold of a keyboard and monitor and update the bios and see if that works.  Did you get yours working in the end?

 

F

[steve.c7677]

Got half way through solving the packet loss problem and gave up. I had an old VGA cord lying around so I'm hooked into the PC port on my tv for the time being. Might give it another go tonight, then I go away for another week.

 

Not sure about expansion cards but I like your idea considering all bays are hot swaps, I think ill do the same, hunt for some 15cm sata cables, low profile expansion card, then all future upgrades will be plug n play.

 

And thanks again dmacias ill use a USB stick.

 

[steve.c7677]

Told the boss to take a hike and took the week off, plan was to get in some track days until my buddy showed me his trashed R1 and leg burns, looks like i need a new track buddy  :'(

 

Sitting here instead working my way through this setup. Turns out my asrock shipped with the new updates pre-installed. (BMC v 14.00) Havent checked the bios yet got straight into pre-clearing.

 

Worked out the packet loss issue by disconnecting the LAN cable from the netbook to server. Not sure why it doesnt like my bran nee cat6 cable, considering the IPMI user manual asks you to plug it in? Wifi connection is working fine.

 

The other thing i couldnt figure out was the SM-Bus header on the motherboard. I believe that connects directly to the PSU so the mobo can monitor the PSU temps and adjust fan speeds accordingly? I  have the 450W Silverstone SST-ST45SF-G (modular) PSU and none of the cables seem to fit the mobo SM Bus header. No big deal just like to get full functionality. Any one here monitor there PSU with this board?

 

Systems running super quiet, im sitting right next to it and its still being drowned out by my old rig on the other side of the room    Fans connected to mobo are running at 1100 rpm i'm assuming the other two are as well.

 

MB - 31 degrees Celsius

CPU - 40

All active HDD's are between 31 - 35 degrees (I expected the lower drive bays to stay a bit cooler)

 

Your right Frank its pretty cramped in there...Didnt agree with you at first until i realized i forgot to plugin the HDD power cables 

 

 

I couldnt find any short SATA connectors locally so i gave the expansion card a miss too. I ended up throwing in a 2TB green drive I had sitting in my HTPC not getting used, so 14TB should last a while for me.

 

 

Decided against VM's and beta 6 for the time being, simply because i didnt want to bite off more than i could chew. I'll get the basic unraid i know and love back up and running smoothly first, then venture into adding more sophistication only as needed. One step at a time for me. Im really only after automating my downloads (and eventually running a centralized library) so I'll start there. Plus i was planning on following ironicbadgers guides and appliances until i read his last post, that put me off a little, probly shouldnt have. I cant see myself sitting still long on a VT-d capable board tho, unraid 6, next week, maybe 

 

To anyone considering this case (DS380) i'm glad i went with the modular PSU.

[garycase]

To anyone considering this case (DS380) i'm glad i went with the modular PSU.

 

I like the modular unit as well; but there's one inexplicable difference between Silverstone's ST45SF and the ST45SF-G modular version of it:  there's no power switch on the modular version !!

 

I've used the modular one, but in subsequent builds have used the non-modular ST45SF and just used wire snips to cut off the unused PCI-E cables and just wrapped them with a bit of electrical tape.  I know that unit's also only 80+ Bronze certified vs. Gold for the modular, but I've found NO measureable difference in consumption between the two with a Kill-a-Watt on the same system, and definitely like having the power switch.

 

[steve.c7677]

Thats a good point, if your comfortable snipping wires (and im guessing voiding the warranty) then you save money and get your power button. I've confused myself twice now looking for it

 

Gary if your familiar with this case and power supply, should i bother trying to hook up the SM Bus to the PSU, to control PSU fan speeds, or in your opinion not worth the bother?

[garycase]

Not worth the bother -- the PSU automatically controls the fan speed as needed.

 

[cliewmc]

Advice for pictures (as promised?)

 

I'm in the midst of building my DS380 but the wires are a mess, there's very little space to manoeuvre my fat fingers. I'm interested in how you manage the wiring.

 

Thanks.

Chris

[garycase]

...  there's very little space to manoeuvre my fat fingers. I'm interested in how you manage the wiring.

 

Did you use an SFX power supply?    That makes it FAR easier to neatly arrange things.

 

[dmacias]

 

 

Advice for pictures (as promised?)

 

I'm in the midst of building my DS380 but the wires are a mess, there's very little space to manoeuvre my fat fingers. I'm interested in how you manage the wiring.

 

Thanks.

Chris

It's best to remove the whole drive cage and put it in last.  I wound all case front end cables around the sides of the fans including the 2 fan cables. Extra power cables can be tucked above the drive cage and by the power supply.  Depending on where your sata cables need to go, lower drive cage cables can go below the rear fan or in a rainbow above your board, creating a tunnel to the rear fan.  That's how my main board power cable goes.  Upper drive cage cables can be routed below the 2.5" cage and to the right of the rear fan.  You don't wanna bunch up the sata cables anyway. So spread them out.  Just don't block the rear fan. I can be really tight between the 2.5" cage and the main cage.  I have a variety of 12" to 18" cables.  A mix of 8 &12 would be Ideal for me but 6 of my ports are directly below the cage.

...  there's very little space to manoeuvre my fat fingers. I'm interested in how you manage the wiring.

 

Did you use an SFX power supply?    That makes it FAR easier to neatly arrange things.

It will only take an sfx power supply.  Much to my surprise on build day. Had to throw in some generic 300 watt and order the Silverstone power supply.

[steve.c7677]

Next week when I'm back home I will complete the hardware side of this build. I'll probably have another go at proper cable management now that dmacius has described how he has gone about his.

 

I chose to give up before I accidentally broke anything because it was a real dicky job. I resorted to using cable ties and just keeping the sata cables out of the fans direct air flow. I'm pretty sure this has impeded the positive air flow on some of my HDD's. All other cables didn't prove to be much of an issue as I found areas to loop them out of the way.

 

 

I have also decided to go ahead with the upgraded fan management. I will swap out the stock case fans for the Noctua NF-P12 PWM's

I'm using these fans because they're  marketed as high impedance fans and their blades are designed to move a larger air volume, therefor countering the DS380 magnetic dust filter screens I have decided to keep on. I'm keeping the screens on solely because I live next to the beach and wish to keep the sea salt out.

 

I will also install a fan speed controller which will allow the server to automatically switch off the two side case intake fans when the HDD's drop below a preset temp. This way my server won't be sucking in the salty beach air 100% of the time when it's only needed 5-10% of the time.

 

I have narrowed the fan controllers down to the:

 

Kaze sever 3.5

NZXT Grid +

 

I've been waiting about a month for the Kaze to come from the supplier so I'll try that one first and see how it fits into one of the hot swap bays.

 

When I pick up these parts next week I'll open the sever back up and take the final photos and post them here with temps.

 

I'll also have to setup email alerts for this topic, I plan to keep it active for the next 6-12 months as I move into the software side and bring the virtualization online.

[dmacias]

I have the Noctua F-12 PWM fans and I had to run them at about 1100 rpms to keep the drives cool during parity checks with the filter on.  My mobo can smart control the fans (which is based on cpu/sys temp only useful for rear) or set a specific speed. I'd be interested to know your mobo supports fancontrol in linux.  Mine doesn't.  Fans always show 0's. There is a script to control your fan speeds based on hard drive temps. You wouldn't need a controller.  I'll be interested to know if the 3.5 kaze fits and works well. May be an option for me.  Right now I have the filter off and speeds set to 600 rpms.