Hello All.  We've been experiencing lots of brown outs lately.  Recently, it's becoming unbearable.  For fear of my drives get damaged, can you help size up my requirement? 

 

I currently have 3 Barracuda Green HDD, and 1 WD Red SATA drive.  I'm using Intel Core 2 Duo E4600 processor. 

 

I intend to grow the box up to a maximum of 8 drives.  In the future, I also intend to replace the processor with a potentially power hungry processor.

 

Can anyone give me a good size estimate?  How many VA?

 

Thanks

The size of the UPS determines how long it will run before shutting down.  How long it will run is determined by the power draw of the equipment.  The power draw is determined by the activity on the server.  At idle the server will draw a lot less power.

 

If your brown outs are short (several minutes) a small UPS will work.

 

You'll have to do some math to determine what is best for you.

The size of the UPS determines how long it will run before shutting down.

 

Technically that's not correct.  The size of the UPS determines how much of a load it can handle.  The size of the BATTERIES on the unit determines how long it can run before a shutdown is required.  There IS generally a correlation between larger batteries and a higher capacity, but not always ... and with the better units you can buy them with additional battery packs and/or larger batteries.

 

Notwithstanding that, for a basic UnRAID unit, any good UPS with AVR (do NOT buy a unit without AVR) and at least 700VA (~ 450 watts) of capacity will work well.

 

These are all excellent units that work well with UnRAID systems and will easily handle the system you're considering:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101393

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842101381

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102082

 

 

I'm going to add one wrinkle here, though gary's suggestions still might have enough capacity ... 

 

The wrinkle is if your intent is to wait out your brownouts without having to shut down that means you need some level of extra capacity to avoid your batteries deep cycling too far.  There are a number of things that kill batteries.  Heat is one, deep cycles are another.  Sadly many ups batteries are actually NOT well designed for deep cycling.  I would suggest avoiding discharging below 50%, and ideally 75% either after a single long brownout or a series of shorter ones if the battery can't be charged back to 100% in between.

 

So sizing wise you're really going to need to know your total power draw.  There are tools to estimate it like here: http://www.apc.com/tools/ups_selector/ but your best bet is something like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202196386?productId=202196386&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202196386&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D27X-_-202196386 which actually has other uses even after this project.  Once you know the power draw with all drives running you can go back to that APC link above and find the right UPS for you.

 

Now given all that, there is a way to get the ups you need for a decent price, and that is going refurb via ebay.  I'm very happy with this one i got: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-APC-Smart-UPS-DLA750VA-Serial-USB-120V-500W-W-Acessories-New-Batteries-/161371508625?pt=US_Uninterruptible_Power_Supplies&hash=item25927dcf91  With the system spec'ed in my sig (sorry I don't know the draw off hand) and all drives spun up, but no real cpu load, I'm at 20% load and 56 min run time.

 

There are a lot of those ups's listed on ebay.  I didn't buy from that specific one myself, but it looks safe.  I bought from a shop in Maryland that has some listed right now as well.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SUA750-SMART-UPS-750VA-500W-USB-120V-TOWER-POWER-BACKUP-UPS-NEW-BATTERIES-/221403652993?pt=US_Uninterruptible_Power_Supplies&hash=item338cafa381

 

 

PS I see that you want to support 8 drives.  The nice thing about the ups above is that you can give it extended runtime via an external battery "pack".  Or you can instead go with a 1500 vice the 750 unit.

Remember that buying a 1500VA unit vice a 750VA unit doesn't actually increase your runtime -- it increases the load the UPS can support, and WILL, as a side effect, most likely increase your runtime because the larger unit will likely have larger batteries.    But if your goal is a very long runtime, then your best bet is to buy an external battery pack for whatever UPS you choose.

 

I know a few folks who have simply run the UPS power lines externally and used large external lead-acid batteries instead of the small sealed units that typically come with a UPS.  This can provide HOURS of runtime ... but if they're not sealed units, you have to be sure you have proper ventilation, as batteries can release toxic fumes.

 

 

But there's no reason to over-study this ... the units I listed above will work just fine for what you asked about.  I prefer the APC units; but the CyberPower is an excellent low-cost alternative.

 

I thought that at first but then i checked.  the 1500 does indeed have a larger battery pack than the 750.  Practically double the size, so yeah run time will be better.  But as you say, an external, possible even a DIY, will give much much more run time; after all they add two more battery packs!!!  But for an 8-drive setup I think his runtime will be enough to weather the brownouts without over-draining the batteries and killing them in short order.

 

On external car batteries: an idea I just had was why not go with one of the new Li-Ion car batteries   They are light, small, dense and designed to operate using a standard Pb type charging system.  I'm not sure I would use it as an add-on, but just as an external it might work really well.  http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-BTL09A120C-Lithium-Phosphate/dp/B00F9LPIAC/ref=au_as_r?ie=UTF8&Make=Mazda|80&Model=Miata|1110&Year=2003|2003&carId=005&n=15684181&s=automotive&vehicleType=5

 

Indeed the ones you listed will work well, but the nice thing about the refurbs is getting more battery for the money which he might need for all his brownouts [shrug].  Heck maybe his brownouts will be just shallow enough to note use the battery and just survive using AVR.  The Smart-UPSs are adjustable and he might be able to adjust based his actual low voltage.

If, as noted in the original post, the issue is brown-outs and not actual outages, any good unit with AVR will work fine ... it likely won't even switch to battery, as a good AVR can easily compensate for the voltage deviations in typical brown-outs.

 

Agree you can find some pretty good deals on the used marketplace ... just be sure you're buying a quality unit, and be aware that you'll almost certainly have to buy a set of batteries for it.

 

As I noted in my first post, AVR is a KEY requirement for a UPS -- do NOT buy a unit without it (ESPECIALLY since your primary issue is brown-outs).

 

depends on the depth of the brownout.  My APC has a low voltage cut-in of 106v.  If his brownouts go lower than that he'll be on battery.  AVR is still something he needs, I'm just saying the depth of the brownouts might mean he is on battery anyway.

 

Most of the ebay listings come with fresh batteries.  Both links I posted do, but you are right some don't so total cost needs to be figured.

Wow, thanks for all the answers and advice, dlandon, jumperalex and garycase. 

 

My intention is initially for the unraid server to have enough time to shutdown.  I guess, from discussions above, 650VA ups should suffice?

 

Sometimes, a UPS with AVR costs more than a UPS, with a separate AVR.  Will either of them do?  I am only considering APC brand and Liebert brands.  But I haven't chosen a particular model yet.  I'll be needing apcupsd to work.  Liebert is generally less expensive in my country, Philippines.  Don't know if any of you have info about apcupsd working on Liebert?

 

I forgot to mention that I do have a portable generator, and power it up in times of brown outs.  Another question will be, is it safe to use unraid, UPS with AVR, when using a genset? 

...  it safe to use unraid, UPS with AVR, when using a genset?

 

Yes ... in fact it's fairly common with large organizations to have a UPS that takes over during failures for a few minutes while a generator is powered up.

 

Thanks garycase

As an ex-pat Brit living in Philippines, to save confusion, I should mention that the word 'brownout' is used here to describe a total power cut, which can last for several hours.

 

I have PMd jang430 with some advice which is probably only relevant to us here in Philippines.

... the word 'brownout' is used here to describe a total power cut ...

 

Definitely not what I think about WRT to "brownout".