RaidCore/BroadCom BC4852 8 port compatibility?

[nia]

Hi.

 

I stumbeled upon unRAID, and it seems to be the answer to a lot of my storage concerns.

 

My first question is, if I will be able to use my RaidCore/Broadcom BC4852. It is an 8 port PCI RAID 5 card, that in an unRAID configuration would serve just as an 8 port disk controller not using any of its RAID capabilities.

 

Thank you in advance for your response.

 

Brgds,

 

Niels

[BRiT]

That depends on several other items.

 

1) Is it compatible with Linux?

2) Does it operate in a pure JBOD mode?

3) Does it pass through HD Identity commands?

 

[prostuff1]

Hi.

 

I stumbeled upon unRAID, and it seems to be the answer to a lot of my storage concerns.

 

My first question is, if I will be able to use my RaidCore/Broadcom BC4852. It is an 8 port PCI RAID 5 card, that in an unRAID configuration would serve just as an 8 port disk controller not using any of its RAID capabilities.

 

Thank you in advance for your response.

 

Brgds,

 

Niels

 

The only way to truly know is yo try it yourself.  I have never heard it mentioned on the forums before, so you will be the first to try.  There is a free 3 disk version of unRAID (parity + 2 data) that can be loaded onto a flash drive for you to test.  The only other thing you can try is to send an email off to Lime Technology and see if he can give you an answer.

[nia]

Thank you for the quick responses (which is promising as a future user).

 

I realise I can ultimately try for myself, but at one time, the BC4000 series disk controllers were fairly common. So if there were a supported device driver list for this application, or anyone out there was running it, I would love the confirmation or the opposite.

 

Also - I'm reluctant to touch the existing setup too much, as it is rather sensitive to wanting to rebuild the current 6 drive RAID-5.

 

Unfortunately I'm not a Linux-guy (so far). I once tried to enter into the territory but that was in 2004 when I ultimately gave up on MythTV and decided for GBPVR in stead (and never looked back).

 

So even though I know it was supported in Linux at the time of purchase 3 years ago, I'm not sure what updates has been done to Linux that may render the driver unusable. Also, I'm not sure what Linux version is beneath unRAID. And I never really needed the Linux-drivers, so I currently can't find any (still working the Internet though). I believe the driver file was called bcraid. Unfortunately, RaidCore was purchased by Broadcom, and then resold to DotHill, so legacy support is dead... 

 

Any hint on where the gold is hidden in the Linux part of the Internet? (i.e. what sites are most likely to have old drivers for stuff like this laying around ...)

 

Brit:

1) Yes - at least older Linux versions

2) Yes, it is possible. Currently using Raid5

3) Don't know...

 

 

[nia]

Well, I took a deep breath ad tried to simply stick the USB key into my PVR rig. It seemed to work quite nicely indeed. Relating to this topic, all the RAID5 disks were apparently also seen, even though they are actually currently configured in a RAID5.

 

So it looks very promising indeed.

 

I have attached some of the information from the system. Maybe someone can help deciphering if there are anything in there that is talking against or for the use of the card in this envoronment.

 

Basically, the disks appear as scsi disks(?!) Just like:

 

/dev/sdb scsi-SATA_SAMSUNG_HD403LJS0NFJ1KLC05846

 

Se more in the camouflaged htm-files (remove .txt.extension).

 

Comments or tips welcome :-)

 

My mind is already made up to go the unRAID way. Besides figuring out if I can bring these 8 ports to the table, I'm trying to make up my mind about the mobo/CPU for maximum power efficiency (electricity is expensive here in Denmark - 10 watts 24/7 makes for 30 USD/year). So spindown also makes monetary sense  .

 

Next thing is to figure out if vmware installation is viable in order to completely rid me of other permanently torned on machines (I have one as a weather logger requiring next to no CPU power, BUT requiring windows).

[Joe L.]

Well, I took a deep breath ad tried to simply stick the USB key into my PVR rig. It seemed to work quite nicely indeed. Relating to this topic, all the RAID5 disks were apparently also seen, even though they are actually currently configured in a RAID5.

 

So it looks very promising indeed.

 

I have attached some of the information from the system. Maybe someone can help deciphering if there are anything in there that is talking against or for the use of the card in this envoronment.

 

Basically, the disks appear as scsi disks(?!) Just like:

 

/dev/sdb scsi-SATA_SAMSUNG_HD403LJS0NFJ1KLC05846

 

Se more in the camouflaged htm-files (remove .txt.extension).

 

Comments or tips welcome :-)

 

My mind is already made up to go the unRAID way. Besides figuring out if I can bring these 8 ports to the table, I'm trying to make up my mind about the mobo/CPU for maximum power efficiency (electricity is expensive here in Denmark - 10 watts 24/7 makes for 30 USD/year). So spindown also makes monetary sense  .

 

Next thing is to figure out if vmware installation is viable in order to completely rid me of other permanently torned on machines (I have one as a weather logger requiring next to no CPU power, BUT requiring windows).

A quick glance at your syslog showed that drive "hda" seems to be giving a bit of a problem, as it dropped to PIO mode... perhaps a cabling problem, but not knowing how you have it connected, can't tell for sure.  Looks like it shares a cable with a CD drive.  If so, perhaps it is a 40 wire cable and not an 80 conductor cable.

 

I see you used unmenu.  You can use it to run "smartctl" and "hdparm" reports on your disks if you are brave... neither "writes" to the disks, so you should be safe...BUT if at all hesitant, don't do it... I'd hate to be the cause of any data loss if your card did something unexpected.  Perhaps you can swap in a spare drive for that test and disconnect all your RAID5 drives.

 

It is quite normal for the controller to look as if it is a "scsi" device under linux.  Most SATA devices do.

 

Joe L.

[nia]

Thanks Joe L. 

 

HDA is indeed sharing a cable with a DVD drive. The cable is one of the round (nice cable management) type, but i believe with 80 strands in 40 pairs. Not too worried as it is one of my smallest disks, so it might be recommissioned for other purposes...

 

I have the most important recordings currently on the RAID5 (figures) so I'm sort of cautious about fiddeling too much with it...  However, life is lethal, so what the h*ck!  I ran the reports on one of the disks in the array. Output attached.

 

Everything looks normal and completely transparent - i.e. the disk apparently looks and reports like a normal disk as far as I can see. I hope this adds to the percentage that it will actually work ?

 

Also good to know that it behaves like "most SATA devices" in Linux by reporting in as SCSI.

 

Does SCSI-device status influence the ability to spin down?

 

/Niels

 

PS: Found an Asus A8N-SLi Premium with Athlon 64 x2 3800+ in the local eBay at a reasonable price. I believe it's a fairly well tested machine for this purpose?

With the 8 SATA & 4 IDE drive ports on board along with my 8 port RAID controller, I won't come up short too soon I guess...

[Joe L.]

Thanks Joe L. 

 

HDA is indeed sharing a cable with a DVD drive. The cable is one of the round (nice cable management) type, but i believe with 80 strands in 40 pairs. Not too worried as it is one of my smallest disks, so it might be recommissioned for other purposes...

 

I have the most important recordings currently on the RAID5 (figures) so I'm sort of cautious about fiddeling too much with it...  However, life is lethal, so what the h*ck!  I ran the reports on one of the disks in the array. Output attached.

 

Everything looks normal and completely transparent - i.e. the disk apparently looks and reports like a normal disk as far as I can see. I hope this adds to the percentage that it will actually work ?

 

Also good to know that it behaves like "most SATA devices" in Linux by reporting in as SCSI.

 

Does SCSI-device status influence the ability to spin down?

 

/Niels

 

PS: Found an Asus A8N-SLi Premium with Athlon 64 x2 3800+ in the local eBay at a reasonable price. I believe it's a fairly well tested machine for this purpose?

With the 8 SATA & 4 IDE drive ports on board along with my 8 port RAID controller, I won't come up short too soon I guess...

Are the NTFS formatted drives on the same 8 port controller?   They seem to be separate file-systems.

 

If using unmenu, you can use the buttons on its disk-management page to attempt to spin down a given disk and see if your disk controller will pass it to the disk.     

The button just issues a

hdparm -y /dev/xxx

command to request a drive to spin down. (with xxx = device)  The buttons make it easy to test.

For your sample disk it would be

hdparm -y /dev/sdc

 

The

hdparm -C /dev/xxx

command will let you know if a drive is sleeping.  If it returns text stating it is in "standby" mode, it is sleeping.  )

For your sdc drive, it would be hdparm -C /dev/sdc

 

You would need to log in via telnet, or on the system console to type those commands.  In unmenu you can see the spinning status on the myMain page if you do not care to log in and issue the Linux command.

 

If one of those nfts file systems is on the 8 disk controller you can use the buttons in unmenu to "mount" it and then "share" it on your LAN in a read-only mode.  (The disk is mounted in read-only mode, so again, no writes are made to it, but you will be able to browse its contents from a network share it will create as \\tower\xxx1

(again where xxx = disk device involved)  Again, it will prove more of the controller's capability.   

 

Obviously, you cannot mount any of those not identified as NTFS.   Whatever you do, DO NOT press any of the buttons to create a file-system on a disk where it thinks there is no file-system.  That would write to the disk and make you very unhappy.

 

Joe L.

[nia]

Wow - a response before the system had completed rebooting back into XP 

 

Are the NTFS formatted drives on the same 8 port controller?   They seem to be separate file-systems.

 

No - the disks on the controller are part of a striped RAID5 array made by the BC4852, and not readable outside the RAID on their own. Also - the buttons do not say "Mount" like on the other disks, they say "Create reiserfs on /xxx...". The NTFS disks are connected directly to the MoBo.

 

But I assume that it is also a good sign that "Create file system"-button at least is available (not that I'm pressing it just yet!).

 

Also in the light of the fact that I am actually able to put the array disks to sleep (verified in command line interface). These disks are otherwise ALWAYS spinning courtesy of the card or XP. So one more 

 

Confidence is building ... 

[Joe L.]

Wow - a response before the system had completed rebooting back into XP 

 

Are the NTFS formatted drives on the same 8 port controller?   They seem to be separate file-systems.

 

No - the disks on the controller are part of a striped RAID5 array made by the BC4852, and not readable outside the RAID on their own. Also - the buttons do not say "Mount" like on the other disks, they say "Create reiserfs on /xxx...". The NTFS disks are connected directly to the MoBo.

I asked only because I did not see 8 disks of similar size, I only saw 6 400 Gig drives.  i was hoping the other two might be on the other ports, but not part of the RAID5 array.

But I assume that it is also a good sign that "Create file system"-button at least is available (not that I'm pressing it just yet!).

I'm sure you know, but you should let the normal unRAID management screen create the file-systems for its use in the protected array.  (once you get that far)

When I wrote the disk-management plug-in for unmenu I did not intend it to replace any of the normal management functions of the unRAID management screen.  The button is there if you wanted a disk outside of the protected array.

Also in the light of the fact that I am actually able to put the array disks to sleep (verified in command line interface). These disks are otherwise ALWAYS spinning courtesy of the card or XP. So one more 

 

Confidence is building ... 

Excellent news...  That card is looking more and more like it is going to work just fine.    If you are planning to migrate all your drives I'd pick up a new 2TB drive or two and migrate your data incrementally.  Unfortunately you'll need to migrate everything off of your RAID5 array before you can re-allocate its disks to the unRAID server.  A pair of 2TB drives should do it... One for parity, one for data.  then you can migrate the 400 gig drives from your old RAID5 array, followed by the others.

[Joe L.]

Thinking about 30 seconds more, I realized how stupid my prior post must sound.  If you are using the BC4852 in the new unRAID array, you cannot be using it in the old RAID5 array under XP at the same time.  Therefore, you MUST offload the data on the RAID5 array before you re-use the BC4852 card in your unRAID server.

 

Joe L.

(Feeling kind of dumb right now)

[nia]

 

I asked only because I did not see 8 disks of similar size, I only saw 6 400 Gig drives.  i was hoping the other two might be on the other ports, but not part of the RAID5 array.

I see. No - I only have the 6 RAID5 disks connected to the RaidCore board. The others are connected directly to the motherboard.

 

Unfortunately you'll need to migrate everything off of your RAID5 array before you can re-allocate its disks to the unRAID server.  A pair of 2TB drives should do it... One for parity, one for data.  then you can migrate the 400 gig drives from your old RAID5 array, followed by the others.

Yep - although I will be going with 1TB's for now since I already have a couple scattered in other machines as well as one in the PVR. This way I can also keep the Parity drive as 1 TB for now. The migration will be interesting in itself. Once I have the RAID fully offloaded, it will be very interesting to move the BC4852 to the unRAID machine and start building 

 

Thinking about 30 seconds more, I realized how stupid my prior post must sound.

Not at all. I read it the way you actually ment it: Offload then migrate.

 

Thank you for all your input so far.

 

PS: Unfortunately the guy with the MoBo let me down and didn't ship it, so I'll probably be stuck with testing in stead of migrating over the NewYears weekend.  If I dont take the intermediate step and migrate to another Power hog of a machine with a Prescott CPU until the mobo arrives and migrate to that - would be like testing a catastrophic breakdown of a MoBo. Would be brave, but not necessarily smart 

 

[MurrayW]

nia,  I also have this same RaidCore BC4852 card using 8 250GB drives in a Raid 5 configuration that I built 3 or 4 years ago.  I want to expand using 1TB drives, but

• 1. Not sure how large an array will be recognized with the BC4852
  
• 2. Can't afford to buy 8 1TB drives at the same time, so I can't get the benefit of larger drives in my current array until I replace all 8 250GB drives
  
• 3. Want to try Unraid because it is much more flexible and more widely supported than the BC4852
  

 

It seems like you have tested it and that the BC4852 "should" work.  Have you actually done it yet? 

 

I am not sure if I see myself needing more than 8 1TB drives (I would probably get a 2TB for the parity drive) for the next several years, so I think that 8 SATA ports will be enough for me forever.  I am sure that in the future when I need more, disk prices will come down so I can buy 2TB, 5TB or whatever disk sizes are reasonable at that point to replace some of my 1TB drives.  So with that said, I am not sure if it would be better to use my BC4852 like this or to just get a motherboard with 8 SATA ports on it and try to sell my BC4852 on EBay.

 

Newegg has Samsung 1TB drives on sale today for $70, so I think I may pick up a few.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152173

 

I am glad that someone else is going through this process first! 

 

Thanks,

Murray

 

 

[nia]

Hi Murray, fellow RaidCorian...

 

I can completely relate to your considerations! 

 

As stated below, I got an A8N Premium used, and that's 8+4 disk ports already. Currently I have made the migration using some 1TBs and some of the 400GB's originally from the 4852 all plugged to the motherboard.

 

I have a further 400GB precleared standing by. So I'm actually doing fine for space, as doing this consolidation also eliminated some redundant data, leaving me with spare room (along with the adding of an extra 1TB data disk for migration).

 

So I'm  also seriously considering eBaying (well, the Danish equivalent) the RC4852 to someone who needs P'n'P RAID5.

 

I know it is not ANY fun touching the existing 4852 RAID, so I will try a couple of real tests during the week and post back here.

 

From what i've seen and done so far, I absolutely expect the card to be supported.

 

As for your questions,

 

1) There is a 2TB limit, but I don't remember if there is a way around it, or if it's really a WinXP limitation. I stopped at 6*400GB

 

2) You wouldn't have to go all out with 8 1TB drives in one go coming from less than 2TB of existing data?

 

3) Sooooo much more flexible indeed!  But is IS something different in many ways, and requires much more from the user.

 

/Niels

[MurrayW]

Hi Niels,

 

Thanks for the reply.  I am still probably a month or more away from doing anything, since I am currently using the computer that has the 4852 in it for home automation as well as a shared file server, so I will need to order and build a new HTPC/Automation machine to replace it.  After thinking about it some more this is what I think I will probably do:

 

• Might as well start out with 2TB drives.  Since I have some time, I can probably find a sale on some that are comparable in price/GB to the $70 1TB drives that Newegg has now.  That way, I only have to buy 1/2 as many right now.
  
• Would probably buy 3 2TB drives and start with 2 data + 1 parity + 1 cache (re-use a current drive) connected to the 4 motherboard ports
  
• Keep 4 of my 8 250GB drives connected to the 4852 (or maybe all 8 if I can fit 4 more drives into my case.
  
• That should give me 5TB of space which should last me for a while and when I start running out of room, I can start replacing 250GB drives with 2TB drives, enabling me to eventually get up to ~20TB if I ever need that much space.
  

 

thanks,

Murray

[WeeboTech]

From what i've seen and done so far, I absolutely expect the card to be supported.

 

How did you come to this conclusion?

I'm not so sure this card's support is not included in the base unRAID kernel.

 

I do not believe unRAID supports any hardware or software based RAID array HBA.

So far it is been just basic SATA cards without any raid functionality.

[MurrayW]

From what i've seen and done so far, I absolutely expect the card to be supported.

 

How did you come to this conclusion?

I'm not so sure this card's support is not included in the base unRAID kernel.

 

I do not believe unRAID supports any hardware or software based RAID array HBA.

So far it is been just basic SATA cards without any raid functionality.

I guess we won't know until we try it out.  I searched the forum and couldn't find any definitive proof.  Here's one post that indicates the OP is using a Raidcore 8 port sata raid card.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2031.msg34179#msg34179

 

Here is another person talking about it (I'm not sure if he was using a Raidcore card or not):

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2506.msg19875#msg19875

[WeeboTech]

There is no definitive tests at this point in time.

If this card worked, it would be all over the forum.

So far there is just some honorable mention.

Please check the Wiki for proven compatibility.

[MurrayW]

There is no definitive tests at this point in time.

If this card worked, it would be all over the forum.

So far there is just some honorable mention.

Please check the Wiki for proven compatibility.

If it didn't work, wouldn't that at least have been mentioned on the forum?  Is it possible that no one has tried it yet (or posted back if they have)?  Since nia and I already have one of these, is there any harm in us trying them to see if they work or do you know for sure they won't work?

[Joe L.]

There is no definitive tests at this point in time.

If this card worked, it would be all over the forum.

So far there is just some honorable mention.

Please check the Wiki for proven compatibility.

If it didn't work, wouldn't that at least have been mentioned on the forum?  Is it possible that no one has tried it yet (or posted back if they have)?  Since nia and I already have one of these, is there any harm in us trying them to see if they work or do you know for sure they won't work?

No harm at all in you trying if you already own the card.

[MurrayW]

There is no definitive tests at this point in time.

If this card worked, it would be all over the forum.

So far there is just some honorable mention.

Please check the Wiki for proven compatibility.

If it didn't work, wouldn't that at least have been mentioned on the forum?  Is it possible that no one has tried it yet (or posted back if they have)?  Since nia and I already have one of these, is there any harm in us trying them to see if they work or do you know for sure they won't work?

No harm at all in you trying if you already own the card.

Thanks...I probably won't get around to it for about 1 month (maybe nia will beat me to it  ).  I just wanted to make sure that if someone knew for sure it wouldn't work, I wouldn't waste my time and would get another motherboard with more SATA ports.

[WeeboTech]

There is no definitive tests at this point in time.

If this card worked, it would be all over the forum.

So far there is just some honorable mention.

Please check the Wiki for proven compatibility.

If it didn't work, wouldn't that at least have been mentioned on the forum?  Is it possible that no one has tried it yet (or posted back if they have)?  Since nia and I already have one of these, is there any harm in us trying them to see if they work or do you know for sure they won't work?

No harm at all in you trying if you already own the card.

Thanks...I probably won't get around to it for about 1 month (maybe nia will beat me to it   ).  I just wanted to make sure that if someone knew for sure it wouldn't work, I wouldn't waste my time and would get another motherboard with more SATA ports.

 

No harm in trying it.

From what I remember of this card, there are software drivers required in linux for it to operate.

In addition, there was some corporate change of hands for the hardware.

It's prudent to test and verify before publishing that you see no problem with it working.

I'm not so confident it will work with the current state of drivers/hardware and how unRAID monitors the drives.

 

 

I'll add, I have not seen anyone publish that it doesn't work.

But I have not seen anyone publish that it does either. Nor is it on the hardware compatibility list.

[nia]

Hi WeeboTech.

From what i've seen and done so far, I absolutely expect the card to be supported.

How did you come to this conclusion?

Well - it's hardly a conclusion: "...so far ... expect ..." 

 

If you look at the thread and what I have actually tested and written, you will see that it has been proven to recognise disks on the array, and spin them up/down courtesy of Joe L.'s friendly assistance. That is indicative that there is hope.

 

I also wrote, that i intended to do an actual test of the card. Then I may conclude on my experience.

 

I do not find it strange that this card is not mentioned in the forums. It's quite rare, and support for it did not survive the merger and acquisitions that the original RaidCore company has been through. So it's hardly mentioned anywhere at all. I'm actually very surprised to meet anyone other with this card. I personally bought mine from a guy in Australia 16.000km away from Copenhagen where I live...! 

 

The intended functionality in an unRaid environment would be to provide 8 simple SATA ports. Not to provide any secondary RAID layer. That is also a reason for considering selling it. It's really ment to be a native transparent hardware RAID5 card in a machine needing local redundancy. In an unRaid environment I belive this PCI card will be outperformed by simple PCI-E SATA port cards.

 

[nia]

See you posted while I was writing my response.

It's prudent to test and verify before publishing that you see no problem with it working.

Well - look at the thread subject title and what is actually written. Noone claims it's working. Only that nothing so far indicates that it won't.

 

But to make things clear: So far BC4852 has not been successfully tested by me in an unRAID setup.

 

I will do the actual testing later as stated. If you have any good input to how and what to test I'm all ears    I would really like to do it as well as posssible while I'm at it anyway. Maybe even to the level that compatibility is "proven" (as you state in your previous post) or the opposite.

[MurrayW]

I downloaded the free version of unraid to a usb drive and booted my current machine.  From the web interface, I was able to see all the drives attached to the BC4852 RaidCore card.  I am not ready to initialize my unraid array yet, so I didn't do anything other than "look".  I posted a screen shot and syslog in another thread I have going in case it gives any clues on whether the BC4852 is going to work or not.  Here's the post with the attachments.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5185.msg48082#msg48082

 

thanks,

Murray