Will my Build work ?

[pipo90]

Hey guys,

I'm planning to build a PC to use with unraid, however the compatibility in regards of IOMMU are quite difficult to me. I have build countless of gaming and office PCs, but never one like this. Here is what I'm planning to do: I want to use UnRaid to turn a HDD into a NAS for Media playback, extra backup purposes etc. I would also make use of several dockers, they're one big reason why I want to go with unraid here.

However, the PC should also be used as a HTPC for Media playback and occasional browsing, printing etc. That would have to be a virtualized Windows(since the people using it will refuse to use anything other of what they are used to). That means CPU and motherboard need to support IOMMU.

I have picked two carts, one for AMD and one for Intel. In both cases I'd use a SSD for the windows distro and a 3TB WD red for the Media/NAS files.

 

Other requirements: small form factor, mITX or µATX. Silent and energy efficient would nice, since it will be on 24/7.

 

Edit: Instead of the other builds, I have put this together now. If it doesnt do the job, I can still change the CPU to an i5:

1 Western Digital WD Red  3TB, 3.5", SATA 6Gb/s (WD30EFRX)

1 SanDisk Plus  120GB, SATA (SDSSDA-120G-G26)

1 Intel Celeron G3900, 2x 2.80GHz, boxed (BX80662G3900)

1 Crucial DIMM  8GB, DDR4-2133, CL15 (CT8G4DFS8213)

1 ASRock H170M Pro4S (90-MXGZW0-A0UAYZ)

1 Samsung SN-506BB schwarz, SATA (SN-506BB/BEBE)

1 Antec ISK 600M (0761345-15166-5)

1 be quiet! Pure Power 9 CM 400W ATX 2.4 (BN266)

1 Gtx 560 I have lying here.

The questions stands - Is it fit for my plans ?

Would the Hardware, either of those two carts, work ? Also, is this build overkilling it or reasonable ? My budget is about 650€. I figured something cheaper like a dualcore celeron wont make the cut for my plans, since the windows VM will take quite a lot of its power. Right ?

 

I have spent hours of googling, but I'm just not sure if everything will be okay. I hope someone here can help me as the forum that is usually able to help me out couldnt this time, because they did not know UnRaid really well.

It probably seems to you that I have no idea about this stuff at all, but I can assure you that if the hardware is compatible and fit for the purpose, I'll be able to handle the software side of things.

 

Please excuse any mistakes as english is not my native language. I appreciate any help and hope you have a nice day 

 

 

 

 

 

[mr-hexen]

That CPU does not support PCI device (known as vt-d) passthrough.

 

Use intel's ARK site and look for a CPU that supports vt-d or Virtualization for Directed I/O.

 

Also, you might want to use more than one hard drive, otherwise what's the point of unRAID, just make a windows box...

[pipo90]

Thank you for your reply. I did check ark. It says Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d) = YES. Have a look HERE Am I missing something ?

 

Im actually not interested in a parity disk, even though it might seem to be the main factor for other people. I like the idea of being able to adding one if necessary at any point. However, I like the dockers and a linux enviroment.

[mr-hexen]

my bad, never knew they made a Celeron with vt-d support.. it always used to be i5 or higher only..even the old i3's didnt have it.

[pipo90]

No worries. Almost got me more confused So in theory, this would be a working build, even if underpowerd for my purposes ?

[tdallen]

Well yes - but emphasis on underpowered.  If you wanted to run a little Ubuntu VM on that hardware you might squeak by, but I really don't think it will work well for a Windows VM.  Typically you want an i5 and 16GB of RAM to run unRAID and a Windows VM.

 

Just curious - if you only want to have a single data drive, why are you looking at unRAID?  I'd just build a little Windows box and be done with it.  Unless you are using at least a data drive and a parity drive under unRAID I'm not sure I see the point.  You can share out a Windows drive on your home network...  Not trying to talk you out of it, but your plan seems a little complicated right now.

[pipo90]

I will not be the user of the windows machine, since I'm in the network though I want to make use of several server tasks like OSCam and jDownloader, which I can access via webinterface. I dont want any of that to run on windows as it would just confuse the people using it. Therefor I'd use UnRaid and make use of its docker feature. Also, I have the possibility to easily add a parity disk without any hassle at a later point.

 

If you can, would you post me a i5-like AMD build in regards of processing power, keeping µATX in mind ? I usually prefer intel, however the bang for the buck ratio for this machine is probably better than intels here.

This is my previous AMD build that I edited out. Once again, I'm not 100% sure the CPU+MB are okay to use IOMMU. Intel build below as well.

 

1 AMD A10-7860K Black Edition, 4x 3.60GHz, boxed mit Low-Noise Kühler (AD786KYBJCSBX)

1 ASRock FM2A88M-HD+ R3.0 (90-MXB130-A0UAYZ)

1 G.Skill Ares DIMM Kit  16GB, DDR3-2133, CL11-13-13-31 (F3-2133C11D-16GAR)

1 Western Digital WD Red Pro  3TB, 3.5", SATA 6Gb/s (WD3001FFSX)

1 SanDisk Plus  120GB, SATA (SDSSDA-120G-G26)

1 Samsung SN-506BB schwarz, SATA (SN-506BB/BEBE)

1 Antec ISK 600M (0761345-15166-5)

1 be quiet! Pure Power 9 CM 400W ATX 2.4 (BN266)

---

1 Intel Core i5-6400, 4x 2.70GHz, boxed (BX80662I56400)

1 ASRock H170M Pro4S (90-MXGZW0-A0UAYZ)

1 Crucial DIMM Kit  16GB, DDR4-2133, CL15 (CT2K8G4DFD8213)

1 Western Digital WD Red  3TB, 3.5", SATA 6Gb/s (WD30EFRX)

1 SanDisk Plus  120GB, SATA (SDSSDA-120G-G26)

1 Samsung SN-506BB schwarz, SATA (SN-506BB/BEBE)

1 Antec ISK 600M (0761345-15166-5)

1 be quiet! Pure Power 9 CM 400W ATX 2.4 (BN266)

[mr-hexen]

I'm not an AMD expert by any means, but at the same price point I'd bet the intel runs faster anyways.

 

Also, your AMD build above has a WD Red Pro. The Pro is more expensive and not needed for unRAID. A regular WD Red will do just nicely.

[tdallen]

I can only comment on the Intel build.  I'm not sure I've seen anyone use that specific board for unRAID but ASRock boards are commonly used.  It supports VT-d, so you should be able to do passthrough.

 

Three things.  I'd go with a larger SSD since they're cheap, and they're where you're going to install your Dockers and VMs - 250GB would give you a lot more room to work with than 120.  Also, you will need a video card for your Windows VM - are you still planning to use the GTX 560 you mentioned in your first post?  Finally, you are best off with a power supply with a single 12v rail.  It looks like the one you linked has two rails.

[pipo90]

Hey guys, thanks for your answer.

 

@ mr-hexen: Both my builds use the WD Red Pro. I chose 7200 rpm over 5400 because there might be up to 3 clients at a time stream HD media files off of it. Would a 5400rpm drive still be sufficient ?

 

@tdallen: By coincidence I have just found a review of this board on amazon.com, where a user does exactly what I want to do - run UnRaid with one windows VM. He has it running since 6 months, so I assume im good in regards of the motherboard.

 

Regarding the dockers, couldnt I install them on the 3TB drive ? However, youre right. I get a Evo 250gb for just 25 euro more. I was thining about it myself, the reason I post here was mainly CPU and MoBo compatibility and things like case, ssd etc. are not carved in stone

 

I am still planning to use the 560 to assign it to the windows VM, yes.

 

Could you specify why a single rail PSU would be better for this machine ?

 

I will most likely go with the intel build, however I might chose a  I5-6500 instead of the 6400

Appreciate all your help, I'm feeling more confident now

[mr-hexen]

7200 v 5400 rpm will make no difference when streaming.

 

But look again, the AMD v Intel post a couple up is not a WD Red Pro for the intel build. It's a WD30EFRX which is a regular WD Red.

 

You could install the dockers to the 3TB since you have no plans for a parity drive there would be no speed or spin up penalty. When (and if) you add a parity drive you will want to move those to a cache, in my opinion, as this can cause issues.

 

Corsair TX or HX units are good power supplies.

[pipo90]

Dang, I only changed the WD to Pro on the wishlish on my page, not here. But okay then, 5400rpm it is! 

TX and HX PSUs with reasonable wattage are not available in my location at all currently. I'm still interested to know why single rail is better here. be quiet is known for high quality fine products here.

 

I have learned that below 600w, chosing between single or multi rail doesnt really make a difference. Im open to be disabused though.

Keep in mind, I dont need a legendary machine - I need one that does its job

[mr-hexen]

Good read on power supplies and the 12v rail topic:

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6879.msg66778#msg66778

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=12219.0

 

 

[pipo90]

Hm. It seems that single rails of reasonable brands are just hard to come by here. I have to do some work now but will see if I can fine one after..

 

Edit: Oh well. I guess I'm gonna have to take my chances with the dual rail.

[tdallen]

The standard location for Dockers and VMs is the cache drive, or an SSD managed by the Unassigned Devices plugin.  While you can put it on the 3TB for now, trust me - you will wind up redoing it later.  Better to start on the cache drive in my opinion.

 

Here's the scenario where a single 12v rail is nice (and I realize this doesn't fully apply to you).  You have two 12v rails, each with 24amps.  You've got several drives and peripherals spread across the two rails.  You want to add another drive - which rail has enough capacity to handle the 6amp spinup of the new drive?  With two rails you need to know, and you need to physically hook the new drive up to the right power lead.  With a single 12v rail you don't care, 48amps of clean power is available on the single rail so you can just hook it up to any available lead.  Above or below 600w is irrelevant, it's more about the number of devices in the box and balancing their power needs.

[pipo90]

Understood, dockers to the ssd. I'll have to look into it as well, can I just use one partition for the Windows VM and the dockers or do the dockers need their own partition etc. but I'll figure all of it out.

 

Thanks for clarifying about the PSUs. I'm sure it's of more importance if I want to run a 18 drive array. Since I'll be just running a hdd and an ssd, I'm confident I'll be okay with the two rail PSU, even if I add another HDD at a later point.

[JonathanM]

Just to expand on the single rail discussion, most smaller power supplies that are split rail totally exclude the ability to balance between rails, they force all hard drive connections to one rail, and the other rail is dedicated to motherboard, cpu, and video. The only way to allocate power from another rail on those supplies is to cut and solder connections.

 

That said, the whole reason this is even being discussed is that unraid is typically used with multiple hard drives. If you persist in your original plan to only use 1 hard drive and 1 SSD, a multi rail PSU is just fine. If you start adding multiple drives later, you will run into issues. How many drives is ok on a multi rail is a complex discussion, so the normal advice is get a single rail.

[pipo90]

Gotcha, thanks! I won't exeed 2 hdds and one ssd ever, but if it's acting up I'll know to look for a single rail PSU 

[mr-hexen]

I won't exeed 2 hdds and one ssd ever

 

Heard that one before! 

[pipo90]

Haha I bet ! However, by the time I do need more HDDs, its probably time to upgrade several components anyway

 

Thanks guys, you were a great help in picking the parts