I'm preparing to build my first unRaid server.  I want a rack-mountable system with expandability up to 20 drives and easy hot-swap potential.  While selecting components, I ended up with three distinct builds that all ended up coming out at about the same price.

 

I'm looking for help choosing which one to build and for an extra set of eyes to point out any problems/compatibility issues that I may have overlooked....

 

My original build was based on the Norco 4020 & Supermicro  MBD-C2SEE-O:

 

 

MoBo: Supermicro  MBD-C2SEE-O 142

Processor: Pentium Dual-Core E6500 79.99

Case: RPC-4020 327

Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1333 103.99

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX ATX12V 89.99

unraid key: unRaid Pro 119

2TB Drive: Western Digital Green WD20EARS 139.99

USB: SanDisk Cruzer Micro 2GB        13

 

Total 1014.96

 

Then I thought that I might want to run either a windows or linux virtual machine alongside unRaid in the future so maybe I'd want a little more horsepower.  Plus the Socket 775 is a dead end.  So, I thought that maybe I'd be better off with a Core i3 based machine.  As I was working on components for this build, I realized that I was looking at all uATX boards.  It turns out that the 4020 doesn't accept uATX, but the 4220 does.  However, when I looked at the 4220 on Newegg, it is coming with a free Xeon motherboard.  So, although it still uses the dying socket 775 and the dying Xeon processor, I priced out a Xeon based system: Since the MoBo will accept it, I decided to go with ECC RAM

 

MoBo: ASUS P5BV-M LGA 775 Intel 3200 FREE

Processor: Intel Xeon BX80570E3110 177.91

Case: RPC-4220 349.99

Memory: Kingston DDR2  4GB 800MHz ECC 124.98

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX ATX12V 89.99

unraid key: unRaid Pro 119

2TB Drive: Western Digital Green WD20EARS 139.99

USB: SanDisk Cruzer Micro 2GB        13

 

Total 1014.86

 

Finally, I went back and looked for an ATX MoBo for a Core i3 that I could pair with the 4020:

 

Core i3 System:

 

MoBo: GIGABYTE GA-P55-USB3 P55 ATX        114.99

Processor: Intel Core i3-530 2.93 GHz Processor 114.98

Case: RPC-4020        327

Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1333        103.99

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX ATX12V        89.99

unraid key: unRaid Pro        119

2TB Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 139.99

USB: SanDisk Cruzer Micro 2GB Flash Drive 13

 

Total        1022.94

 

I could probably get a smaller PSU, but at $90 the Corsair 750W unit looked like a good value.  All of these are a little cheaper than the Limeware pre-built systems and have the bonus of easy rackmountability.

 

In the end, I was surprised that the Xeon was the cheapest of the 3.  At the moment, I'm leaning toward the i3 based box.  I can't find a reason to go with the E6500 based build as it should be the least powerful, but is not the least expensive.

 

I have had zero experience with the Xeon processors, but the fact that it is the cheapest of the three has me interested.  I know that the socket 775 and Xeons are dead ends, but does anyone see a reason that the Xeon box would not work as well or is inferior to the other two in a way that I do not appreciate?

 

Links for components in attached document

 

Many thanks in advance

 

John

unRaid_Box.doc

With the XEON motherboard it may be hard or pricey to find a suitable replacement.

 

The cost for ECC ram is worthwhile if this system is going to be running 24x7, otherwise I might consider standard DDR2 (again 24x7 operation is a deciding factor).

 

Also looks like the ASUS board has embedded video and a serial port (if needed for UPS).

It may actually run a core 2 duo. I've read that the XEON 3000 and core 2 duo 8000 are similiar.

 

I could not find much at asus.

Do some research.

http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=AtsJply6kxDa2ehK&content=specifications

 

Also, the motherboard only has 4 SATA ports, so you will need to purchase 2 8 port controllers to reach the 20 drive potential.

 

 

Against this I might consider the power utilization of the i3 vs the XEON.

Then factor in that you need a video card, and cooling for the video card.

Look further into the ASUS link I posted.

On the right tab it has CPU Support.

 

If I had a used CPU in that list and DDR2 laying around, that is the way I would go.

Even if I could sell some old parts and buy used parts in that class I would probably go that way.

 

It all depends if you are going to run this 24x7 and if you really want to run a vmware server on it.

If you can wait and get bargain bin parts, then I would do that until the day comes when you need the additional services.

 

A free motherboard with parts laying around or from trade works for me!   hahahaha!

 

 

If there are significant savings in power and there is no current requirement for additional services, then I would go with i3.  But bargain bin spare parts from my boxes always makes me smile.

 

My newer unRAID server is a used x7SBE from eBay, a 2.4Ghz used CPU from eBay, fan too. hahahah.

New Ram,  openbox AOC-SATA-MV8's, etc, etc.

 

The only new parts are the case, power supply and ram.

 

 

Your i3 setup is missing a video card since the MB doesn't have VGA/dvi/hdmi output. If you are going with i3, find a board with video out since i3 has gpu built in.

 

If you are near a Frys store, get the i3 + MB combo for $90.

Your i3 setup is missing a video card since the MB doesn't have VGA/dvi/hdmi output. If you are going with i3, find a board with video out since i3 has gpu built in.

 

If you are near a Frys store, get the i3 + MB combo for $90.

 

I was just coming to that realization as well.  I'll have to keep looking.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not near a Frys and that i3 & MB combo is not available online.  However, that was the i3 board that I was originally considering until I realized that the 4020 would not accept a uATX board.

 

However, I guess that I'm still a little confused regarding which of these boxes would be the most powerful. i.e. i3 setup vs the Xeon setup?

However, I guess that I'm still a little confused regarding which of these boxes would be the most powerful. i.e. i3 setup vs the Xeon setup?

 

For base unRAID, either will do. a 1.6 ghz celeron and above will work fine.

 

For VMware a fast CPU with a large cache.

I think the i3 has a level 3 cache so it may be better.

 

I have 3ghz XEONS (Older 771).  They run at 2ghz until I start doing something heavy.

Then they jump up and the fans start up.

OK, I think that I'm close to pulling the trigger and I'll be done bugging you guys of a little while...

 

I'm pretty sure that I'll want to run a virtual linux machine on my unRaid box so that I can run pyTivo on it instead of my desktop.  That way, there will be one less step through the network when streaming video stored on the unRaid box.  So I've decided to go with the i3 based system.  I found another ATX MoBo with a video port so I won't need a video card.  I also found 4GB of DDR3 that are on the MoBo's compatible list.  Those two items were a few bucks more than the original components that I'd selected, but using Bing cashback, I'll be able to get most of the difference back.  Anyway, here's the list (links to the specific items are in the attached document):

 

Core i3 System

 

MoBo GIGABYTE GA-H55-USB3         129.11

Processor Intel Core i3-530 2.93 GHz Processor 114.98

Case RPC-4020         327

Memory G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB)  DDR3 1333         109.68

PSU CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 86.69

unraid key unRaid Pro         119

2TB Drive Western Digital Green WD20EARS 125.99

USB SanDisk Cruzer Micro 2GB Flash Drive 13

 

Total         1025.45

 

I'm still searching around for bargains on the processor.  I may go with a Core i5 if I can find one for just $10-$20 more...do you think that it would be worth it?

 

Initially, I'll probably just set it up as a dedicated unRaid box and possibly add the virtual machine later.  I know that these last few questions may be better posted in the applications section, but I'll ask here anyway....

 

Can a virtual machine also be booted from a USB?  The same USB that contains unRaid? If so, would I be better off getting a larger USB drive?  How much larger?

 

If the VM was booted from a HDD, could it live on a partition on one of the data drives?  I want to keep my parity drive at a full 2TB.  Would placing the VM on a data drive partition effect unRaid's ability to rebuild that drive should it fail?  I assume that it would not, but I'm just checking.

 

Once again,

Many, many thanks for your help

 

John

un_Raid_Core_i3.doc

re: i3/i5, I don't know the difference at this time to answer intelligently.

 

 

re: vmware on USB drive. - I don't recommend it. 

If you had an SSD, I would say yes. This is how I do it. A USB no.

I'm sure people do it, but I bet there would be performance issues.

 

Instead, put the vmware image on another drive not in the array, or put it on the cache drive.

If the vmware images are on a hidden folder in the cache drive, it will not get cleaned off.

 

You can rsync this hidden folder somewhere to the array via cron so you have a backup.

 

If you had fast drives, you could put it on the protected array. write speed will be around 30MB/s, but you will be protected for all writes.

One of the difference between the i3 and i5, is the i5 has "turbo boost". The i5 seems to be limited to a 266Mhz 'turbo-boost'. If you do opt for an i5, do pay attention as not all of them have the integrated graphics. Here's some more info from Anandtech : http://www.anandtech.com/show/2901

 

From Wikipedia:

Intel Turbo Boost is a technology implemented by Intel in certain of their Nehalem-based CPUs, including Core i5 and Core i7. Turbo Boost allows CPU clock speed to be dynamically increased on demand.  It is activated when the operating system requests the highest performance state of the processor.

 

When the processor is operating below its thermal and electrical limits and the user's workload demands additional performance, the processor clock frequency will dynamically increase in increments of 133 MHz on short and regular intervals until a thermal or power limit is reached or the maximum speed for the number of active cores is reached. Conversely, when any of the limits are reached or exceeded, the processor frequency will automatically decrease in increments of 133 MHz until the processor is again operating within its limits.

Thanks guys.

 

I'm going to go ahead with the i3/i5 build that I described above.  Right now, I know that it's way over-built to just run unRaid, but I think that I might want to try to do a little more with this box in the future.  Plus, it's not that much more expensive than the new components that I was trying to choose for a "budget build".  I'm sure that someone else could do better with that one though.

 

Weebo, I appreciate the input Re: VMware on USB.  That was what I was expecting to hear.  I just wanted to make sure that I didn't find out later that I should have bought a bigger USB drive.  I'll admit that I don't understand much of what I've quoted below (rsync? cron?), but, at this point I have zero experience with either unRaid or VMware.  However, I enjoy learning about this stuff.  I'm still early days....it'll come with some time....

 

How about this question: I should be able to accomodate 20 drives total (with some PCI-e cards).  I'm going to use the 2TB drive as a parity drive.  So, 19 potential data drives.  Since the pro license will use a cache drive, of course I'll want to use one.  Will this need to be a separate physical drive on the array?  Or could I put another drive in with a partition for my cache drive, a partition for my VMware, and a partition for additional data?  Or would I be better off getting a smaller, fast drive to serve as my VMware & Cache drives?

 

 

Instead, put the vmware image on another drive not in the array, or put it on the cache drive.

If the vmware images are on a hidden folder in the cache drive, it will not get cleaned off.

 

You can rsync this hidden folder somewhere to the array via cron so you have a backup.

How about this question: I should be able to accomodate 20 drives total (with some PCI-e cards).  I'm going to use the 2TB drive as a parity drive.  So, 19 potential data drives.  Since the pro license will use a cache drive, of course I'll want to use one.  Will this need to be a separate physical drive on the array?  Or could I put another drive in with a partition for my cache drive, a partition for my VMware, and a partition for additional data?  Or would I be better off getting a smaller, fast drive to serve as my VMware & Cache drives?

 

It's not that the pro license "will" use a cache drive, it's that it "can" use a cache drive if you enable it.

You could use multiple partitions on the cache drive or just one (simpler).

 

If you use multiple partitions you can have a swap partition(just in case) and another separate vmware image partition.

 

Neither of these is needed in the start, and it can complicate the initial install.

If you get a nice fast drive for cache, let unRAID format it, then put vmware in a hidden folder, you will be fine.

 

Go for a 7200rpm or faster here (if you have one around).

 

What kind of vmware application will you be running?

Weebo,

 

Thanks a lot, you're the man.

 

Yes, I misspoke re: "can" & "will" regarding the cache drive.

 

Yes, all of this would complicate the initial install.  So, I'm planing on setting this thing up simply as an unRaid box, booting from the USB to start.  There's no reason to pile things I don't really know on top of things that I don't really know from the beginning.

 

First step: build a functioning unRaid box.  That is what I was really after to begin with.

 

Second step: Check and double check that the unRaid is working correctly.

 

Third step: See what else I can do with this box. i.e. VMware etc...

 

I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't limiting my options, going terribly overboard, or setting myself up for failure with a particular component choice.

 

What kind of vmware application will you be running?

 

To be honest, I'm not sure.  I'm even less familiar with VMware than I am with unRaid.  Right now, I think that I will want to run some free version of Linux that will let me run both Python & pyTivo to serve video to my three Tivos.  Right now, that's all that I want, but I can do OK with an unRaid box and pyTivo running on my desktop...I think.  But, if I could run both of them together on one box, that would be great. 

 

I just didn't want to build myself into a dead end with cheap, but new components when midrange, new components would allow more capability for much the same price.

 

So, should I plan on 1 parity drive, 1 fast cache/VMware drive, and 18 potential data drives?  That doesn't sound so bad to me....

 

Thanks again,

 

John

No need to run vmWare on unRAID to run Linux for what you're doing.

 

IIRC, you can get python running on unRAID.

I have no idea what's required for pyTivo.

My understanding is that I'll need to be able to run:

 

Python

pyTivo

ffmpeg

 

Right now, I can understand running a VM that can do the above, but if there is another way, I'm open to suggestions.

If you want to use the Photo plugin feature of pyTivo, you will need another dependency, the Python Imaging Library (PIL).

 

I believe other addons for unRAID make use of 2 of the 3 things you need.

 

1) Python is used by the SABNzbd addon.

2) ffmpeg is used by the PS3Media Server addon.

 

If that is the case, installing those above dependencies is as simple as placing a couple of lines in your 'go' script; something not completely unlike the following:

 

installpkg python-package.txz
installpkg ffmpeg-package.txz

 

Or making use of unMenu with it's auto-install capabilities for addons.

 

Getting vmWare running under unRAID will be more complex than simply getting the 3rd addon 'pyTivo' running. If I read things correctly, installing pyTivo is simple once you get the dependencies handled. It's a mere matter of doing the following ( http://pytivo.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Linux_Install ) :

 

unzip pyTivo-nnn.zip

cd pyTivo

vi pyTivo.conf

/path/to/python pyTivo.py

 

Juano11,

 

I am still puzzle why you would pick GIGABYTE GA-H55-USB3. Of course it's your choice but personally I would pick a board with at least a pcie x4 slot. I don't think there's a guarrentee that x16 video card slot will work with a x4 card. It will be difficult to get to 20 drives with that board.

Personally, for unRAID I will not buy a mobo tha has the word "GIGABYTE" in the name.

Just search these boards and you'll see how many people have been burned big time by the HPA issues.

 

Juano11,

 

I am still puzzle why you would pick GIGABYTE GA-H55-USB3. Of course it's your choice but personally I would pick a board with at least a pcie x4 slot. I don't think there's a guarrentee that x16 video card slot will work with a x4 card. It will be difficult to get to 20 drives with that board.

 

Personally, for unRAID I will not buy a mobo tha has the word "GIGABYTE" in the name.

Just search these boards and you'll see how many people have been burned big time by the HPA issues.

 

 

Perhaps I was a bit hasty is my decision making.  I've ordered the board, but I got it from NewEgg, so I could return it if I'm just setting myself up for extra headaches.

 

I was completely unaware of the HPA issues with the Gigabyte boards.  I was originally trying to pick hardware from the unRaid "compatible" list, but once I started to go down the LGA 1156 path I couldn't get any guidance from the unRaid Wiki. None of the P55 boards seem to have a video port on board, they are obviously aimed at a customer that would want to install a video card.  Obviously, I'd like to avoid this, so I was looking at the H55 boards.

 

Regarding the lack of a PCI-e x4 slot...I thought that it was OK to up-plug PCI cards...i.e. a x4 card should work in a x8 or x16 slot, but not vice versa.  Correct/Incorrect?

 

Do either of you guys have a suggestion for a LGA 1156, ATX board with a video port?  Ideally in the sub $150 range.

 

Are there particular manufacturers that do not have the HPA issues that the Gigabyte boards do?

 

Can you disable the HPA in the BIOS as VampyreGTX describes below?

 

Want to add that the BIOS also offers the option to disable HPA in BIOS, which shouldn't cause any problems in case of BIOS failure since this board also has Gigabytes DualBios, which means there is a second BIOS chip that stores a backup of the BIOS already.  I also confirmed that HPA is not present on any drive.  I disabled it prior to installing a drive as well.  I believe the setting to disable to 'backup bios to HDD' or something very similar. 

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=4943.msg45817#msg45817

 

Thanks

 

John

 

However, that was the i3 board that I was originally considering until I realized that the 4020 would not accept a uATX board.

 

 

I've just realized that I was mistaken in this point.  While I realized that a uATX would physically fit in the case, uATX was not listed as compatible on newegg or the site that I ordered it from:

http://www.compsource.com/pn/RPC4020/Norco/Habey_1264/

 

However on Norco's site it is listed:

http://www.norcotek.com/item_detail.php?categoryid=1&modelno=RPC-4020

 

Has anyone put a uATX board into a 4020?

 

If so, it should expand my MoBo selection greatly...

Do you mean Micro ATX (mATX)? I have a Norco 4220 and it works with mATX and ATX. Remember I told you about the Fry's i3 combo. I brought it and was planning to use that as my new Unraid setup but unfortunatly my SAT2-MV8 PCI card can't fit in that board due to the motherboard's chipset blocking it.

 

I'm too looking for a i3 board for my next build but I guess I am still waiting for my dream lga 1156 board with PCI-X slot for my SAT2-MV8. I though this board will ever exists. I'm looking forward for your i3 build. :-)

 

 

Thanks, I didn't make the connection that you had a mATX (also uATX) board in your 4020 earlier.

 

The search continunes....

Are there particular manufacturers that do not have the HPA issues that the Gigabyte boards do?

Can you disable the HPA in the BIOS as VampyreGTX describes below?

Only Gigabyte does that crap.  Sure you can disable it on some mobos, but some time down the road when the CMOS battery dies the first thing it'll do is take a dump on your hard disk.  You'll cry bloody murder then.  

 

 

Only Gigabyte does that crap.  Sure you can disable it on some mobos, but some time down the road when the CMOS battery dies the first thing it'll do is take a dump on your hard disk.  You'll cry bloody murder then.  

 

 

I think the new Gigabyte MB has it disabled by default. Well, atleast my Gigabyte GA-H55M-S2H is disabled by default.

 

Only Gigabyte does that crap.  Sure you can disable it on some mobos, but some time down the road when the CMOS battery dies the first thing it'll do is take a dump on your hard disk.  You'll cry bloody murder then.  

 

 

I think the new Gigabyte MB has it disabled by default. Well, atleast my Gigabyte GA-H55M-S2H is disabled by default.

I think that Gigabyte eventually learned that their "feature" should not be enabled by default... but it took a lot of bad press in the process.

I think that Gigabyte eventually learned that their "feature" should not be enabled by default...

Personally, I won't trust Gigabyte for unRAID server as long as that "feature" is in their BIOS.  But that's just me.