14 minutes ago, pwm said:

any changes performed after the snapshot is made will make the file system deviate between snapshot and "main" view. So the more changes that are introduced, the more additional disk space will be consumed to remember the older and now overwritten data within the snapshots.

Have to see how it will go with BTRFS on my UnRAID. Worst case scenario I will convert the disks one by one to XFS untill all are XFS :). 

It is a pity that the quota features on BTRFS have problems. I hope the native checksum error detection is working without any issues.

 

By the way PCI SATA Controller Dell PERC H310 arrived. I have to reflash it for UnRAID and to find some cables.

Bad news: the  Dell PERC H310 SATA controller seems to be defect. When installed the motherboard makes only beeps instead of starting.

1 hour ago, FlorinB said:

Bad news: the  Dell PERC H310 SATA controller seems to be defect. When installed the motherboard makes only beeps instead of starting.

The controller is not defect, but you have to do a hardware hack to make it working. See below:

and this link.

 

Flashed the controller PERC H310 in IT mode using 

Update on 17.04.2017, v4 <--- this is the latest, use this one!

Firmware is still P20.00.07.00

 

 

Added another 2 disks of 1.5TB, because the SAS cable that I have is with only 2 SATA, replaced the old 500GB parity disks with the ones connected to PERC H310 controller. The Parity-Sync/Data-Rebuild in progress.

 

A big thank you to everybody which commented on this topic and helped me to understand better how UnRAID works.

 

End of story.

 

@FlorinB, In the top post of the thread, you laid out a scenario with mostly low power drives, so I didn't make mention of your PSU, but in your later screenshots, you seem to be ramping up your drive count and power draw. Make SURE you keep your hard drive total 12V amp ratings collectively below 20 Amps, as your chosen power supply may not be able to simultaneously spin up all your drives if you go beyond that.

 

I'd keep a spreadsheet of all the drives currently connected and research their 12V max amp rating to keep a running tally.

13 minutes ago, jonathanm said:

research their 12V max amp rating to keep a running tally.

 

The emphasis is on the MAX current draw.  HD drives have very high inrush current when they spin up.  And there are times when all of the drives spin up at the same time.  While this inrush is of short duration, the over-current protection circuit of the PS will shutdown the +12V buss if the PS current rating is exceeded for only a few milliseconds.  This condition has been known to cause all sorts of issues!!!   

 

The problem is that finding the max current draw of a HD is difficult as not all of the manufacturers list it on their spec sheets.  A old rule of thumb is 3 amperes for older high power drives and 2 amperes for the newer 'green' ones.  

1 minute ago, jonathanm said:

Make SURE you keep your hard drive total 12V amp ratings collectively below 20 Amps

At this moment with all the disks installed (1 SSD 2.5 inch x 250GB, 7 HDD 2.5 inch x 500GB, 2HDD 3.5 inch 1.5TB),  the power consumption with all drives spinning should not be more than 10 Amps. The SSD disks consumes 1.4A, the small 2.5 disks consumes around 0.8 Amps each, except the 2 Toshiba, which consumes 1.1 Amp and the 2 x 1.5TB disks consumes 1.25 Amps each

 

1 x 1.40A=1.40A

5 x 0.80A=4.00A

2 x 1.10A=2.20A

2 x 1.25A=2.50A

=============

Total:_____10.1A < 20Amps (for the moment)

 

If I will replace all disks and add 2 more extra disks (to have 12 in total), except the SSD cache disk, with Samsung IronWolf 4GB which consumes 1.75A, that would lead to:

11 x 1.75A + 1 x 1.4A = 20.65A - do I have to replace the power source? Taking into account that the maximum number of disks which is possible to install into my case is: 10 x 3.5 inch + 2 x 2.5 inch. How big the PS should be?

2 minutes ago, FlorinB said:

How big the PS should be?

That question is simple and complicated at the same time, because of the way PSU's are designed and marketed. The simple answer is, you need some margin between your maximum instantaneous draw, and the power supply capacity.

 

Finding out what a specific power supply will give is sometimes hard to find because they bury the facts in marketing. The power supply you listed shows

+12V1 (A)28

+12V2 (A)20

Which translates into 28 amps being allocated to CPU, motherboard, and graphics cards, and 20A available for hard drives. That PSU is meant for a gaming or typical use, instead of server with high hard drive count.

 

You could very well have another PSU with the same 500W overall rating that doesn't split the 12V into 2 differently regulated pools, and allows WAY more amps for hard drives.

 

However, without having access to the actual circuit diagrams, it's almost impossible to determine what the real limits are, you have to go by what the marketing department gives you.

 

Bottom line, when your hard drive draw starts to approach your PSU's advertised capacity, start looking for a new PSU, of whatever size meets your anticipated specs. You don't want to get too close to the line, but you don't want to get too far away either. Typically, the higher the capacity, the more idle waste, unless you spend way more on a super high efficiency model. The actual savings from efficiency probably won't pay for the more expensive part though.

 

Like I said, simple but extremely complicated.

You need to be thinking about a new PS.  I would be looking at a single +12V rail with a 30 ampere rating.  You then have to determine the power  that the MB, CPU, Memory and any add-in cards use.  (You can get this from UPS Setting page in the GUI if you have a UPS on your system.)   Then increase that figure by a third and look for PS with approximately that power rating.  And be prepared to pend some money.  While you don't need to buy the top of the line, you don't want a no-name bargain-basement special.  And I would even avoid the price leader models from the big manufacturers.  What works well in the average business and home PC, will often give problems in a server!  

5 minutes ago, jonathanm said:

Bottom line, when your hard drive draw starts to approach your PSU's advertised capacity, start looking for a new PSU

I have ordered a bigger PSU bequiet! PURE POWER 10 - 700W CM, I will send back the 500W as soon as the new arrives. Theoretically with the Dell PERC H310 and the 8 SATA sockets on the motherboard I have the possibility to connect 16 disks, practically with the Node 804 Case I cannot install more than 12 disks.

10 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

I would be looking at a single +12V rail with a 30 ampere rating.

This should be just enough.

This is the spec's for a single +12V rail PS  (EVGA 500 BQ).  Note the Single 12V rail, but look at the power rating on each section and compare them to the Total rating of the PS.  You actually have to do a bit of engineering when selecting a PS!

 

 

EDIT:  I am actually using this PS in one of my Servers but the idle  load without the drives spinning is about 50W.

Edited June 6, 20188 yr by Frank1940

 

Quote

What about multiple 12V rails?

If you already know a thing or two about power supplies, you'll be aware that manufacturers and users have in recent years been touting the benefits of either having a single 12V rail, or multiple 12V rails. Trouble is, if both of them are said to offer benefits, which allocation of rails is right for you, and why did we go from single to multiple in the first place?

The answer is simpler than you'd think. With modern-day components placing a greater demand on the 12V rail, Intel's ATX specification was amended to suggest that PSUs should feature two 12V rails with independent over-current protection for safety reasons. By limiting the flow of amps in each rail, there's less chance of wires becoming dangerously hot.

Multiple rails are a good idea, then, but unfortunately for Intel's specification, a few poorly-constructed power supplies gave multiple rails a bad reputation that continues to linger. Instead of separating PCIe connectors across multiple rails, some PSUs were found to feature all of their available PCIe connections on one rail - resulting in an overload when multiple components were attached, ensuring an automatic shutdown.

Fortunately, that inappropriate layout is becoming a rarity, and most PSUs, such as the Enermax line, feature one 12V rail solely for PCIe connectors, and another for the PC's other components.

The bottom line? For the vast majority of users, there's no perceivable difference between a single- or multiple-rail PSU. What's of greater importance is the PSU's range of connectors.

 

Source: http://hexus.net/tech/tech-explained/psu/66781-tech-explained-need-know-psus/

 

From what they are saying here, two things are important:

1. that PSU can deliver the power you need

2. to not make your power cables glow ?, in other words to balance the power consumption.

 

Personally I would go for the PSU with multiple rails because it is having multiple over current protection.

 

To be a bit real, I just checked my Test Bed server (specs below).  It idles at 47W and with all of the drives spun up, the power increases to 74W which means that drives are drawing 33W when the drive motors are at speed.  That means the 12V current draw is 2.75 or a bit less than a .5 amperes per drive.   The peak inrush current will only last for a few seconds (probably < 5sec) and drops as the drive motors rpm increase.  

 

The wires are not going to glow in that short period of time.  There may be some significant IR (voltage) as a result of the resistance depending on how you arrange the spliters to distribute the power to each drive.  The fewer the number of spliters in series the better off you be...

1 hour ago, Frank1940 said:

The wires are not going to glow in that short period of time.  There may be some significant IR (voltage) as a result of the resistance depending on how you arrange the spliters to distribute the power to each drive.  The fewer the number of spliters in series the better off you be...

This one with the splitters is one of my issues. I have 1 to 2 and 1 to 4 spliters and instead of connecting the power cable directly to the disks I am using those splitters.

 

The second issue which I have is that are used 2x2.5inch to 3.5 inch hdd adapters to install the 2.5inch disks, like below. There are 3 of them one after the other.

 

On the Fractal Design Node 804 case there are 2 cages for 4x 3.5 inch disks.

I have installed the 2x2.5 inch disks to 3.5 inch adapters on the left cage. When all the disks are spinning, like I did initially to preclear the disks, the temperature is rasing around 45 C. SInce the computer is in the house, one of my goals is to keep the noise as low as possibile and just increase the fans speed when needed. The case comes with normal 3 pin fans (without PWM). I have ordered 2 of Noctua NF-F12PWM and i am planning to install them on the disks side of the case. 

 

However is still unclear for me how can I control better the speed of the fans from unRAID. The Fan Auto Control plugin, does not detect, at least at this moment any pwm fan.

 

Edited June 6, 20188 yr by FlorinB

14 minutes ago, FlorinB said:

I have 1 to 2 and 1 to 4 spliters

Splitters suck.  For the best possible connection, if you have to split the the power, you're better off cutting the wires and soldering them together instead of using the connectors.  You will of course toast the warranty on your power supply

11 minutes ago, Squid said:

Splitters suck.  [...]  You will of course toast the warranty on your power supply

Totally agree with you. I have no problem to solder extra connectors and luckily, in my case I will not lose the warranty, because the hdd cables for my PSU have connectors like below and it is possibile to order extra cables separate.

By the way @Squid, can you give me some hints/links how can I start to develop plugins myself? I am thinking about a BTRFS GUI, which is missing at this moment.

 

Thanks in advance!

9 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

While this inrush is of short duration, the over-current protection circuit of the PS will shutdown the +12V buss if the PS current rating is exceeded for only a few milliseconds.

 

Most better PSU allows for a significant over-current for a while without shutting down. The specification on the label is the max current the PSU promises to support for a continuous load. It's quite common that PSU that has 20 A specified on the label has the overcurrent protection activating at 30 A, while relying on temperature protection to step in if it isn't a short load spike but the user tries to overload the PSU continuously.

 

Even low-end PSU would not have good enough component tolerances that they would install overcurrent protection that activates exactly at the rated max current.

4 minutes ago, FlorinB said:

By the way @Squid, can you give me some hints/links how can I start to develop plugins myself? I am thinking about a BTRFS GUI, which is missing at this moment.

 

https://lime-technology.com/forums/topic/52623-plugin-system-documentation/