We want to buy something like the MD-1510/LL to store a lot of video on an unRAID system.  However, all of Lime-Tech's servers seem to be out of stock. 

 

(Frankly, I'm not even sure why I'm jumping into investing in this system, as they haven't updated the front of their website since they went out of stock on the RB-1200 back in January and they've ignored every sales etc. inquiry I've made to them all year.  However, it does seem to be the best storage format, so here I am going for it anyway.)

 

I looked into building something from scratch using a LIAN LI PC-P80 or P50, but on further investigation I think it will be a bit out of my scope to build it from scratch myself, and we really just want to get it up and running as soon as we can.

 

Is someone selling a similar unit to Lime's MD-1510 at a reasonable price?  It could be a company like New Egg or an individual who will or has put something together like this.

 

We hope someone will let us know soon, as our current storage system is rapidly becoming unmanageable.  Thanks!

 

 

Where in the world are you, and what capacity would you need?

I and several others on these forums would be happy to build one for you, or to help guide you through the process of building one yourself.  However, we need to know:

 

-The capacity you want (how many drives).

-Your budget.

-Your general location (at least the country).

Thanks for the responses.  I wouldn't mind building it myself if it saves money and doesn't take too much time, and had the kindness of strangers to guide me through it.  I am also willing to pay someone else who knows what they're doing if it means saving us significant time and it's still reasonably priced (our budget is tight) -- and if the reality of building a system like this  nowadays is a potential mechanical and/or wiring quagmire.  We need to just have it up and running soon and if I can do that myself quickly, I will, but while I've upgraded machines before frequently, I've never built a box -- motherboard, CPU and all -- from scratch.

 

 

LOCATION:

 

We are located in Massachusetts -- the city of Northampton in the western part of the state.

 

 

CAPACITY:

 

We probably only need about 10TB right now, but will need to option to expand.  That's why I was looking at Lime's 1500 models rather than the 1200.  We will need to add 100's of hours of HD video to this unit each year, and we'd like to avoid filling it up right away.  The fact that Western Digital has 3TB HDDs now, and are less than $100/TB means we were thinking we might get some of those rather than 2TB HDDs to make this thing last as long as possible.

 

 

BUDGET:

 

While we're trying to keep the costs low, we don't want to be pennywise and pound foolish.  For, example, if, say, the P80 box is something much better for cooling and noise than the P50, we'd rather pay the extra for that upfront and have a more functional and sustainable box long-term.

 

Originally I was hoping build it yourself meant we could keep the box under the $1,299 Lime was charging, and hopefully more like $800.  However, I realize that may not be possible for what we're looking for (including if it means, say, that an extra hundred allows to keep a box longer because we can expand to a more HDD bays in the future).  We are open to any arguments or information about why it will cost a bit more or what the value of that would be.

 

 

 

 

Just an FYI before you start ordering parts... The 3TB drives are NOT likely to be usable.  Not in any current version of unRAID.

 

There is a limitation based on the max partition size that can be defined in a MBR style partition table.  (The limit is 2.1TB)

 

This is not just an unRAID issue, but an issue with almost every motherboard and disk controller out there.  Eventually it will be solved, but until then, might want to limit the purchases to 2TB drives.

Okay, thank for that information on the 3TB drives not working in unRAID.  I wondered about that issue. 

 

When I found the 3TB drives this weekend, I read that Mac OS supported them even as boot drives, but Windows did not.  It sounded like it was an issue with Windows, not with the logic board, so I figured under Unix systems like unRAID it would work.  I guess I'm back to 2TB drives then, which is fine for now.  Hopefully, unRAID will be able to handle 3TB right about when we run out of space on the 2TB drives someday!

I also live just outside Northampton.

 

Unfortunately, that's Northampton, England.

 

If you are thinking of the DIY approach, all I can say is this. I'm a 57 year old carpenter with very limited knowledge of PCs and absolutely no knowledge of Linux. But, with the extremely helpful guys on this forum, I've built my own and found the experience easy and painless. The best advice I can give is read as much as you can, especially the wicki and select components which are known to work from the recommended hardware list(s), and go for it. You'll end up with something ideally suited to your needs, at a fraction of the cost of a proprietary (built) system and learn a lot in the process.

Okay, thank for that information on the 3TB drives not working in unRAID.  I wondered about that issue. 

 

When I found the 3TB drives this weekend, I read that Mac OS supported them even as boot drives, but Windows did not.  It sounded like it was an issue with Windows, not with the logic board, so I figured under Unix systems like unRAID it would work.  I guess I'm back to 2TB drives then, which is fine for now.  Hopefully, unRAID will be able to handle 3TB right about when we run out of space on the 2TB drives someday!

 

Mac uses EFI, that can be described as the new BIOS, and 99% of PC motherboards out there still use BIOS itself. EFI can boot from GPT formated drives, but BIOS doesn't, and MBR schema can only address 2.1TB of data. So, "Hackintoches" can't boot from 3TB drives either.

 

You can look at the Wiki for compatible hardware that suites your needs, and if you have concerns about assemble the server yourself, some of our members can do that for you.

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility

Yes, that's what I'm looking to do -- either have some put a box together for us, or get some handholding about how to build it ourself in a way that's pretty dummy-proof (i.e. I'm an IT guy, but I haven't built my own box, so I need it to be dummy proof for a dummy IT guy, not a dummy layperson).

If your budget is tight, then I recommend building it yourself.  If I were to build it for you, I would add on $100 for labor and the shipping would be anywhere from $150 to $250, depending on size and weight.  I that's reasonable for you, let me know.  Otherwise, start with these resources:

 

Recommended Builds (wiki link)

 

My prototype designs

Well I'm not an IT guy but I was able to build an unRAID server without any trouble at all - it just takes a little common sense.

 

If you're going to run this 24x7 using stock unRAID then it's really a piece of cake - assuming you pick the right hardware.  You should be able to get the server up and running and be at the unRAID GUI in less than 4 hours, no problem (assuming you don't get any defective hardware).  Add another 1-2 days to preclear all your drives and you'd be ready to start moving over your data.

 

Check the 20 Drive Beast section on the Hardware Compatability page for a list of components.  The price for that server as of 9/1/2010 was ~$940.  However you could get down to ~$800 if you order only one of the two add-on cards & breakout cables.  With just one card installed you'd be able to install 14 drives which would give you 26TB of space if you used all 2TB drives plus the ability to add another card in the future and bring you up to the max of 40TB (20 drives).

I second the 20 drive beast recommendation. Except I recommend switching to the Supermicro X8SIL-F and an Intel G6950 for the processor (need ECC DDR3 ram as well). I say this as an X7SBE owner too. It is more up to date and cheaper, with included IPM instead of another $90 add on. It removes the PCI-X interface which is not used in that build.

Thanks everyone!  This is great -- this is the handholding i was hoping for!  So, I'm thinking I might try to build this myself -- I was worried about overlooking critical components, but it appears the wiki page lists all the things I need to get, and it seems like I can pretty much just order all of it from New Egg.

 

A few questions:

 

(1) Is there are reason to get more RAM than the standard 1GB?  I know Lime was offering an 8GB RAM upgrade, and RAM is relatively cheap; but just because it's cheap doesn't mean I want to spend the money for no reason.

 

(2) Is there any reason to get a better CPU than the Celeron.  I have a reflexive cringe response to the Celeron from old Windows workstations, but ditto on my spending guidelines from question 1.

 

(3) Does the Lian Li P80 box make more sense than the Norco 4220?  I do like the idea of being able to rackmount it later if we want to (we have a giant server rack in the back office, but for now will leave this in the staff room at the video editing desk).  But I heard the Norco is loud and it's certainly big and heavy.  On the other hand, is there any kind of disadvantage to the P80 or some other box that you have to put expansion cages in?  I've tried to get a definitive answer from other forum posts but couldn't find anything on this.

 

Anyone's opinions or pontifications on these issues are certainly welcome...

 

 

Thanks everyone!  This is great -- this is the handholding i was hoping for!  So, I'm thinking I might try to build this myself -- I was worried about overlooking critical components, but it appears the wiki page lists all the things I need to get, and it seems like I can pretty much just order all of it from New Egg.

 

A few questions:

 

 

(3)  But I heard the Norco is loud and it's certainly big and heavy.

 

Anyone's opinions or pontifications on these issues are certainly welcome...

 

 

 

I haven't actually started using my unRAID server for anything but preclearing  yet so not the best qualified for answering the first two questions (though I suspect the answer to be no or maybe 2GB as unRAID uses the memory for a virtual disk) and no if you are using the server only for unRAID.  If you are using it for other tasks as well then yes and yes.)  To answer the quoted portion of 3, stock the Norco is too loud to be at all considered ambient noise.  If you go with the Supermicro X8SIL-F, you can get the (or construct) the 120mm fan plate and buy some highflow PWM fans (like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835706028) and speed control them based on harddrive temperature using a script (see http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5548.0.)  I confirmed yesterday that the X8SIL-F is capable of changed fans speed using this methodology.

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on Western Digital Caviar 2TB EARS vs EADS.  I'm ready to order the EADS right now before the sale ends today at NewEgg, but I know the EARS are a newer technology/format, and I like to not buy something on it's way out.  With something like unRAID, I could imagine an older technology being an advantage in someway, for reliability, speed, etc.; but I could also see the newer technology being beneficial as new features are rolled out in the software.  I can't find a solid answer on this anywhere (maybe that's because searching for either acronomyn produces pages of search results with the words Appears or Reads in them  ).  Some people say the EARS have problems, even if you jumper them.

 

The prices on EARS vs EADs is similar, so that's not really a factor. 

 

Anyone have opinions on EARS vs EADS?

I bought some of each.  Contradictory to what others have experienced, the EARS drives have performed better for me.  They also run cooler.  I ordered a total of 6 EARS drives and 4 EADS drives.  I have had to RMA 2 of the EARS drives and none of the EADS.  But from reading the reviews on various sites, the RMA rate is about the same for both.

Some people say the EARS have problems, even if you jumper them.

Most (not all) of the time it's because they installed their drive into unRAID without the jumper and then tried to add it after the fact.

 

 

Anyone have opinions on EARS vs EADS?

EARS is newer build/technology with 4KB sectors and has 64MB cache although that won't make much of a difference when used in unRAID.  To use this drive you have to add the jumper on pins 7 & 8.

 

EADS is older build/technology with standard 512 byte sectors but only a 32MB cache.  No need to add the jumper on pins 7 & 8.  However some users have reported that even EADS drive are sometimes labeled "advanced format" so those would need the jumper.

 

My opinion - it doesn't really matter which one you get - I'd just get whatever is the cheapest.

(1) Is there are reason to get more RAM than the standard 1GB?  I know Lime was offering an 8GB RAM upgrade, and RAM is relatively cheap; but just because it's cheap doesn't mean I want to spend the money for no reason.

I would get at least 2GB of RAM.  I have seen a few comments that indicate some users were unable to perform a file-system check with reiserfsck on a 2TB disk.  1 GB is probably enough but I'd get 2GB to be safe and it'll give you more flexibility to run add-ons.  I suspect that in the future you'll probably end up running unMenu and some other add-ons so I'd get 2GB to be safe.  Get 4GB to be ultra safe.

 

(2) Is there any reason to get a better CPU than the Celeron.  I have a reflexive cringe response to the Celeron from old Windows workstations, but ditto on my spending guidelines from question 1.

If you get a LGA 775 motherboard (Supermicro MDB-X7SBE) then get a Celeron 430 processor.  It should be just fine.  If you want to future-proof your system and avoid having to upgrade the CPU if you decide to do a little more with your server then get a LGA 1156 motherboard (Supermicro MDB-X8SIL-F-O) and use the i3-530.  With it should be good to go for a LONG time no matter what you decide to do with the server.  The LGA 1156 board is $60 less but the i3 CPU will be about $75 more, so it's not really that big of a difference.  It's really a matter of preference.  If this was my server I'd get the Supermicro MDB-X8SIL-F-O board and pair it with an i3-530.  But you should be fine with either.  Not sure if the RAM (DDR2 vs. DDR3) is more expensive but you can check that.

 

(3) Does the Lian Li P80 box make more sense than the Norco 4220?  I do like the idea of being able to rackmount it later if we want to (we have a giant server rack in the back office, but for now will leave this in the staff room at the video editing desk).  But I heard the Norco is loud and it's certainly big and heavy.  On the other hand, is there any kind of disadvantage to the P80 or some other box that you have to put expansion cages in?  I've tried to get a definitive answer from other forum posts but couldn't find anything on this.

The Norco 4220 is probably the cheapest route to getting 20 drive capacity with hot swap enclosures.  Many users prefer hot swap enclosures because it's more convenient to swap out drives if you have them.  The P80 is a fine case but you'd have to purchase 4 x 5-in-3 hot swap bays to get 20 drives in that case.  The total cost for that method would be $300 + 4*$80 = $620.  Compare that to the Norco 4220 which is ~$330.  The Lian Li case is really overpriced.  I'd consider the Antec 1200 as an alternative.  It's a good, quiet case for only $160 and can also accept 4 x 5-in-3 hot swap bays.  You could get the 1200 and 2 x 5-in-3 hot swap enclosure for about the same as the P80 or the 4220.  As you can see if you want a tower now it may end up costing you more in the long run if you want 20 drives.  If you're willing to settle for 16 drives not in hot swap enclosures the get the 1200 and use 4 x COOLER MASTER STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 drive bays.

Another bit of advice...I'd purchase a 2 pack of the Pro license up front.  It only costs $30 more but it gives you a working spare flash drive in the event that your flash drive should fail.  I believe that Tom will give you another registration key if your flash drive fails however your server would be down during this period.  Having a spare flash drive and registration key would minimize your downtime which tends to be very important in business applications.  Just remove the old drive, put in your backup flash drive, and reboot.  The key here is that you just need to make sure that whenever you make any changes to your server config that you backup your flash drive files onto the spare.

I second the 20 drive beast recommendation. Except I recommend switching to the Supermicro X8SIL-F and an Intel G6950 for the processor (need ECC DDR3 ram as well). I say this as an X7SBE owner too. It is more up to date and cheaper, with included IPM instead of another $90 add on. It removes the PCI-X interface which is not used in that build.

 

Thanks!  I was just working on the wiki last night (updating the budget box and the 20 drive beast).  I was looking for a board with built in IPMI and couldn't find it.  I think yours is perfect!  I don't see any reason why someone would want the other one instead.  Anyway, do you know of any good RAM I can list there?  All the ECC Registered RAM that I'm finding is $100 or more.  Should just any ECC RAM work, or does it have to be registered too?

 

Edit: OK, I just found these two options:

 

Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Model KVR1333D3S8R9S/1G - $31

 

Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 System Specific Memory Model KTH-PL313/2G - $75

 

Both are ECC registered, so either should work, right?

I second the 20 drive beast recommendation. Except I recommend switching to the Supermicro X8SIL-F and an Intel G6950 for the processor (need ECC DDR3 ram as well). I say this as an X7SBE owner too. It is more up to date and cheaper, with included IPM instead of another $90 add on. It removes the PCI-X interface which is not used in that build.

 

Thanks!  I was just working on the wiki last night (updating the budget box and the 20 drive beast).  I was looking for a board with built in IPMI and couldn't find it.  I think yours is perfect!  I don't see any reason why someone would want the other one instead.  Anyway, do you know of any good RAM I can list there?  All the ECC Registered RAM that I'm finding is $100 or more.  Should just any ECC RAM work, or does it have to be registered too?

 

Edit: OK, I just found these two options:

 

Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Model KVR1333D3S8R9S/1G - $31

 

Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Registered DDR3 1333 System Specific Memory Model KTH-PL313/2G - $75

 

Both are ECC registered, so either should work, right?

 

With this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040

you will get 4GB (2 x 2GB) for the price of a single 2GB registered one.

That's fine by me, but can you confirm that it works with the mobo in question?  I'm more concerned with compatibility, since I don't want to put anything on the recommended builds list that is the least bit sketchy.

That's fine by me, but can you confirm that it works with the mobo in question?  I'm more concerned with compatibility, since I don't want to put anything on the recommended builds list that is the least bit sketchy.

 

6 reviews in total and 33.33% of them state that it works perfectly with X8SIL-F 

(1) Is there are reason to get more RAM than the standard 1GB?  I know Lime was offering an 8GB RAM upgrade, and RAM is relatively cheap; but just because it's cheap doesn't mean I want to spend the money for no reason.

 

As others might mention, it really depends on the usage. I will add something from my experience:

If you just use it for HD movies, you are ok with 2GB. But if you start using it for storing many smaller files (like I do) you will probably need cache_dirs (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=4500.0) which requires much memory. I currently have 2Gb but i am planning to go to 4 very soon...

 

(2) Is there any reason to get a better CPU than the Celeron.  I have a reflexive cringe response to the Celeron from old Windows workstations, but ditto on my spending guidelines from question 1.

 

One good thing about celeron is that, I think, has low power consumption, which means that since most time of the day you wont be using unraid, you will be cutting some unnecessary costs

 

(3) Does the Lian Li P80 box make more sense than the Norco 4220?  I do like the idea of being able to rackmount it later if we want to (we have a giant server rack in the back office, but for now will leave this in the staff room at the video editing desk).  But I heard the Norco is loud and it's certainly big and heavy.  On the other hand, is there any kind of disadvantage to the P80 or some other box that you have to put expansion cages in?  I've tried to get a definitive answer from other forum posts but couldn't find anything on this.

 

I dont have a norco but a normal lian li. if you dont care about a little more fuss, you can buy hot swappable expansion cages which are cheap. That said, from what i've seen in the forums, the norco is easier to use for an amateur, certainly cheaper if you want hot swappable expansion cages, you wont worry about buying extra stuff every now and then and you can deal with the noise if you change the fans' back panel. and if you have a rackmount, you may not even care about the noise in the long run...