Building a Unraid server

[pras1011]

Hi.

 

I want to make a 15 to 20 hdd Unraid server.

 

What are the most up to date bits and pieces I need to make this?

 

(I would like usb 3.0 and esata ports).

 

Thanks

[talmania]

Welcome!  I would definitely look at Raj's thread titled "Raj's Prototype Designs".  Here's the link:  http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7998.0

 

Alot depends on what you want to spend but having just built a 20 drive server I chose the following components:

 

Norco 4220 chassis

Supermicro X8SIL-F

Pentium G6950 processor

2GB Crucial

Corsair 750W PS

 

Went with the motherboard for IPMI/Remote management.  Intel NICs, supermicro stability--its a great motherboard!

[pras1011]

Would this casing be OK?

 

http://www.xcase.co.uk/X-Case-RM-420-Hotswap-4u-p/case-rm420.htm

 

The motherboard you have chosen is very expensive.

 

I am hoping to get everything (excluding HDD) for less than £600.

[kenoka]

That's a bit of a tall order. It's difficult to translate prices, but I know you guys pay more over there.

 

An AMD board with a Sempron CPU would be your least expensive entry I think. The Asus M4A785-M gets good reviews here, but is using an older chipset. If you look at a board with an 880G chipset, you'll have better luck finding USB 3.0. Actually, if you want twenty drives, you're going to need 2 PCI-E x4 (or better) slots, so you'll need to look at 890GX boards. Most of those run $130-150 here, plus about $30 for a Sempron 140.

 

unRAID isn't much of a memory hog. You can get away with 1GB. I'm not even sure you can buy single sticks any more. You might end up needing to get a 2GB kit. $40

 

15 to 20 drives is going to need a hefty power supply. Corsair's TX series works well, because it's single rail. You might be okay with the 650TX, or you might want to opt for the 750TX. $80-100

 

Most motherboards only have five or six SATA ports available, so you'll need two 8 port controllers. The favorite here is the Supermicro AOC-SASLP-LV8. Each will require two cables. If your chosen case has SAS connectors, then you'll need SAS-SAS cables. If it uses SATA ports, you'll need SAS-SATA cables. That's about $300 just for the cards and cables here.

 

By my estimation, you're looking at close to $600 before you buy the case, which is at least another $300. It seems like you generally pay about the same in £ as we do in $, so I'd estimate that you're looking at £900-1000 in total.

 

 

 

 

[bcbgboy13]

This motherboard apparently works well - see http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5943.0

 

and will cost you £65.55 (with VAT) from Scan - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-m4a785td-v-evo-amd-785g-am3-pci-e-20%28x16%29-ddr3-1800%28oc%29-1600%28oc%29-sata-ii-sata-raid-vga

 

Important - you must get the full size "V" version and not the micro ATX "M" version.

 

Add CPU and memory (regular DDR3 not anything fancy, overclockable etc.) to your liking, good PSU and you are set.

 

With the case you selected you will need to get a special cable (reverse forward cable) in order to use four of the existing motherboard SATA ports.

You should buy this cable together with the case you selected - http://www.xcase.co.uk/3ware-cable-p/cables-3ware-reverse%20-8087.htm

or a similar if you find one for less.

 

The rest of the 16 drives should be connected to one or two Supermicro controllers AOC-SASLP-MV8 with up to four of these cables - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3ware-multi-lane-sff8087-to-sff8087-cable-06-metres-single-cable

Equivalent cables (even a bit longer) are available from Ebay for less than US$11 shipped.

 

Good luck.

Important - if you change the case you probably will need different cables!

 

[pras1011]

I was watching the video for that Xcase that I picked and I will need only 5 mini-sas cables (1 per 4 HDDs) to connect all 20 hdds.

 

Does this change anything?

[kenoka]

Not really. You'll have to buy SAS to SAS cables, which cost about the same as the breakout cables. You'll also need a reverse breakout or SATA to SAS cable to connect your motherboard to the backplane. SAS to SAS makes cable management easier though, that's for sure.

 

You're going for a higher end build. There's no way around that. Just the twenty drive case plus the two controller cards and associated cables will blow your budget. That's without motherboard, CPU, RAM, power supply and unRAID license.

 

If your budget doesn't allow for it right now, you can always opt for a more modest build. The CoolerMaster CM 590 has nine half height bays, which can all be used for drives. With three 4 in 3 cages, you have a twelve disk system. You can certainly meet your budget with a twelve disk array. You'd lose hot swap capability, because hot swap backplanes are expensive. Your total cost for this system should be within your budget. If you need more capacity, you can go to hot swappable 5 in 3 cages. Those cages will in the end cost nearly as much as the twenty drive rackmount, but you can piecemeal them as needed rather than taking it all at once.

[pras1011]

The thing I like about the Xcase is that the cages are already inside the casing.

 

If I go down the xcase route which one of their PSU should I get?

[Rajahal]

All of their PSUs are overpowered for unRAID.  I would get a Corsair 650W instead.

[pras1011]

I thought that they might be a bit overpowered!

 

But the cheapest PSU they have is £60.

 

Therefore how much can you buy a Corsair 650W for?

 

Can having a overpowered PSU cause damage/problems?

[Rajahal]

No, it won't cause problems, it just might waste some money.

 

I'm in the US, so I don't know how much you can get a Corsair 650W for.  Check Scan.

[pras1011]

It costs about £70 from Scan. I am thinking that I might as well get the Xcase one just incase I get power hungry HDDs.

 

1) Still having problems find a good yet cheap motherboard. How about this one: http://www.custompcwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/ASUS-M4A89GTD-PRO-USB3--SKT-AM3-Motherboard.html#

 

Specs on motherboards seem so confusing!

 

2) Still looking for a cheap sata controllers x 2.

3) Cables: for the Xcase how many reverse cables, breakout cables and straight cables do I need bearing in mind that the Xcase has 5 mini SAS connectors.

[solrac3]

I am inclined to pay a little more for a good, good, good motherboard. After all, it is the part that has to last. Everything will be connected to it and from it...

 

I have seen to many failures from leaked capacitors on cheap boards...

 

My suggestion, if you don't have the money and it cost a bit more, wait and save... you will only thank yourself for years of trouble free enjoyment.

 

Cheaper, most of the time last less and good, long lasting boards have and added cost...

 

2 cents... 

[kenoka]

It costs about £70 from Scan. I am thinking that I might as well get the Xcase one just incase I get power hungry HDDs.

 

1) Still having problems find a good yet cheap motherboard. How about this one: http://www.custompcwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/ASUS-M4A89GTD-PRO-USB3--SKT-AM3-Motherboard.html#

 

Specs on motherboards seem so confusing!

 

2) Still looking for a cheap sata controllers x 2.

3) Cables: for the Xcase how many reverse cables, breakout cables and straight cables do I need bearing in mind that the Xcase has 5 mini SAS connectors.

Peruse the motherboard section of this forum to find some recommendations.

 

You'd need a total of five cables for that Xcase chassis: one reverse breakout from the motherboard, and four SAS to SAS assuming you got two SAS controllers.

 

I had a look at XCase's power supply offerings, and I'm not impressed. Their entire Green Power line is multi rail, which is a big no no for unRAID. Buy the Corsair. It's got a really beefy single rail, and is actually much more capable, in spite of the modest power number.

 

XCase's 850W PSU, for instance, has four rails, each capable of handling 16A of current. If you somehow put too many drives on cables running to any one of those rails, you'd have problems. The Corsair, on the other hand, has one 12v rail that can handle up to a whopping 52A.

[bcbgboy13]

I am inclined to pay a little more for a good, good, good motherboard. After all, it is the part that has to last. Everything will be connected to it and from it...

I have seen to many failures from leaked capacitors on cheap boards...

My suggestion, if you don't have the money and it cost a bit more, wait and save... you will only thank yourself for years of trouble free enjoyment.

Cheaper, most of the time last less and good, long lasting boards have and added cost...

2 cents... 

 

I tend to disagree with you on many fronts:

 

1. It it virtually painless to replace the motherboard in your Unraid server.

 

2. The motherboards that you can buy today are very well engineered with better parts especially the capacitors (due to many reasons but mostly increased TDP while using minuscule core voltages), Mosfets, etc. Whatever you end buying new today in theory should provide you with years of service due to the fact that you are not overloading the board to the max.

 

3. This is the trickiest one - we now have 3TB drives but there is virtually no motherboards that can use them.

I cannot speculate if any of the current motherboards will ever be made (by BIOS update) able to use them. For me it seems logical that the MB manufacturers may try to force you to buy a new board if you want to use these larger HDs as they will profit from this but in theory it may not be possible too (after all the motherboards today ship with a relatively small flash memories that may not be able to accommodate the new firmware)

So you can spend a few hundred dollars on the best and greatest motherboard today and in a few months or a year you will find out that you cannot use the biggest HDs and be limited to 2TB unless you change the MB.... or buy $50-60 MB that provides everything you need and can support up to 24-30 drives (just in case Unraid expands to these numbers)

 

The OP was provided with an example of such a cheap (in UK terms) board

[solrac3]

bcbgboy13:

 

I respect your point of view but your opinion is based on the fact that you expect the equipment manufacturers to deliver... that is not the case. I have been to HP (2.) manufacturing facilities (very close to home) for a few projects. A few acquaintances over there have a different opinion if you take into consideration that profit and quality are facts that go together.

 

If you state that (1.) it is virtually painless to replace your MB..., how much time do you have in your hands... I look forward to a system that goes forever, if possible, and needs no intervention. I have been there with cheap MB and it is not a delicacy to bring your system down and replace a malfunctioning MB. Also, the added cost piles up where you could have started with a good one for starters...

 

The fact that (3.) upgrades will have you move over to new hardware is a no brainier. Remember that you started with a system (MB) that was compliant and fast enough. Only future speed (SATAIII) will be a need when you are forced into it or have the desire to spend (taking into account that a good MB will last "forever").

 

With all due respect...

 

 

[Rajahal]

If you are used to working with computer hardware, replacing your motherboard takes 1-2 hours at most.  The only really annoying bit is redoing all your cabling, especially if you are upgrading from, for example, a motherboard with 4 SATA ports to a motherboard with 6.  If you are just replacing a defective mobo with a similar one, the process should be pretty easy.  There are no configuration changes necessary in unRAID besides just re-assigning your disks to the correct slots.  unRAID doesn't care if you are using a different CPU, RAM, etc. either.

 

So I guess I'm with bcbgboy13 on this one.  At the current time, buying a decent budget-friendly board makes more sense.  We are all expecting big changes within the next 6-12 months (advanced format drives, 3 TB drive support, etc), and we are half-expecting to have to replace some of our core hardware anyway (at least for the 3 TB drive support).  So it doesn't really make much sense to me to buy a $200 motherboard today.  Especially when you can get something relatively high quality (such as the SuperMicro C2SEE) for less than $100.

[solrac3]

All of this opinions back and forth are for the better of pras1011 . He wins...! 

 

Thanks guys...

[pras1011]

Ok. I am understanding more and more. Still unclear about the cables. The Xcase uses 1 mini-sas on its backpane to control 4 HDD. Therefore there are 5 separate backpane with a min-sas each.

 

Do I connect a sas to sas cable from the mini-sas connector on the Xcase's HDD backpane to the sata raid controller? Or do I need a SAS raid controller?

 

Therefore would I still need the reverse forward cable?

 

So you guys want me to get a cheap motherboard so will this one do? http://www.custompcwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/ASUS-M4A89GTD-PRO-USB3--SKT-AM3-Motherboard.html#

(I need USB3.0 and eSATA so I can do quick transfers from an external HDD to the Unraid server)

 

[Rajahal]

I would recommend using a SuperMicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 card (or two).  You can then connect the backplanes to the card directly with cables like this.  To use the motherboard's SATA ports you'll need a SAS-SATA reverse breakout cable (or two), like this.

 

There's no such thing as a reverse forward cable.  Be careful when shopping for them, since the reverse and forward cables are different items, and they do different things - they are not interchangeable.  If in doubt, look at the cable's model number.  The forward cables generally contain an F, and the reverse cables generally contain an R (though some are ambiguous).

 

That motherboard looks fine to me.  You might want to contact Queeg and ask him about using USB3 devices through SNAP.  I don't know if unRAID can use USB3 speeds or not.

 

 

[pras1011]

In that case what about this:

 

Xcase RM420

ASUS M4A89GTD

AMD Athlon II X2 245 Regor Core AM3 2.9ghz processor

4GB of Corsair Dominator DDR RAM

Corsair 650w PSU

Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 SATA expansion card x 2

2 x 3Ware forward SATA breakout cables

San Disk Cruzer Micro 2GB USB drive

USB motherboard adapter

unRAID Pro Server license

 

This is someone else design. I might as well copy them as its easier.

 

So I can use either the ports on the 2 x sata expansion cards or the motherboard sata ports?

 

Wouldn't it be easier to use the 6 sata ports on the motherboard and buying 2 x SATA expansion ports?

 

I don't want to use all 20 HDD straight away!

[Rajahal]

The Xcase uses backplanes, so you'll also need the SAS cables I linked above (four of them).  Also, you will not need any forward breakout cables.  Instead, you'll need a single reverse breakout cable (again, linked above).

 

Everything else in that list looks fine to me. 

 

The SAS cables are always in groups of 4, so it is actually easier to just ignore two of the motherboard ports.  To get up to the full 20 drive support you will be using all the ports on the SuperMicro cards plus four of the motherboard ports.  The last two motherboard ports you can either leave unused or you can use them to hook up two 2.5" drives inside the case (using standard SATA cables).

 

Also, is it just me, or is the Xcase just a rebranded Norco 4220?

 

 

[kenoka]

I think most of X-case's stuff is rebranded.

 

As for the motherboard issue: I swapped my motherboard TWICE yesterday. It took about ten to fifteen minutes each time.

 

pras1011: Your build looks fine. I don't know that I'd bother with 4GB of RAM at this point, and certainly not the Dominator. You don't need fast timings for unRAID. You want dependability. As Rajahal stated, if you buy the two Supermicro cards, you'll need four SAS-SAS cables and one reverse breakout cable.

[pras1011]

I thought the Dominator was excessive and expensive.

 

What would you suggest?

[Rajahal]

I like Kingston valueram.  I have no idea how available it is in Europe, though.

 

Crucial is good too.  The RAM quality really doesn't matter too much, as unRAID doesn't really need fast RAM anyway.  Just get something that will be stable (it is OK if it is slow).