Einrichtung Unraid auf einem Minisforum

[mgutt]

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

Die VM´s kann man ja dennoch starten jedoch ohne Grafikbeschleunigung oder?

Ja, geht aber entsprechend zu Lasten der CPU, die dann eine GPU simulieren muss.

 

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

1x Internet rein 1x Internet in Switch

Und vom Switch wie zu unRAID oder den anderen VMs?

 

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

Kann man in einem konfigurierten Unraid denn irgendwann einfach den RAM tauschen oder muss man da noch was beachten?

Gibt nichts zu beachten.

 

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

ob man auch das für 80Euronen kaufen kann? Oder ist da wohl ein großer Unterschied?

Der Unterschied sind 4W oder anders gesagt, das Netzteil ist genauso ineffizient wie jedes andere auch. Nur das aus 2021 ist besonders effizient.

 

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

1x SSD für VM´s

1. Warum eine separate und nicht den Cache?

2. Braucht das Board also 3x NVMe?

 

1 hour ago, GiGi said:

1x TV Karte für Sat

1x Netzwerkkarte für mehr Ports (eventuell)

Naja wenn das alles ist, geht doch mATX problemlos.

 

Allerdings gibt es kein B550 Board mit 2x M.2 und 6x SATA. Es gibt zwar auf den ersten Blick welche, aber der 2te M.2 hat dann nur X2 oder ein PCIe Slot geht flöten oder zwei SATA Buchsen gehen flöten:

https://geizhals.de/?cat=mbam4&xf=11924_2~1244_6~317_B550~4400_%B5ATX&sort=p&hloc=at&hloc=de&v=e

 

Dem sparsamen B550 fehlt es also an Lanes (hat nur 10 vs 16 bei Intel bzw X570). Aber selbst bei X570, wo das gar kein Problem wäre, gibt es kaum Auswahl:

https://geizhals.de/?cat=mbam4&xf=11924_2~1244_6~317_X570~4400_%B5ATX&sort=p&hloc=at&hloc=de&v=e

 

Man könnte zwar eines mit 4x SATA nehmen, aber ich finde damit ist man in Zukunft zu unflexibel. Musst du wissen.

 

Ich weiß der Xeon ist teuer, aber ein W480M ist mit 2x M.2, 8x SATA, 1G + 2.5G LAN und 2x X8 PCIe Slots einfach sexy 😁

[GiGi]

@mgutt Danke nochmal für die ganze „wall of text“

 

Ich habe es mir nun nochmal überlegt und wie auch der eigentliche Plan war, würde ich auf ein w80m wechseln. Prozessoren sind halt gerade wirklich nur schwer zu bekommen. Der einzige Prozessor der gerade irgendwie erhältlich ist, wäre der w-1370p bei Mindfactory für 430Euro. Wie sicher ist man sich denn, dass die IGPU mit gvt-d nicht funktioniert? Das liegt ja glaube ich nur am Kernel oder?

 

Du hattest auf der ersten Seite geschrieben, dass du eventuell auch einen Prozessor bestellen kannst. Würdest du auch für Forenmitglieder bestellen und das privat abwickeln? Kommst du auch an einen 1270?

 

Würde nun folgendes System zusammen bauen, vielleicht kannst du ja mal sagen was du davon hältst:

1x GeForce 1070

3x IronWolf 4TB

2x Samsung nvme 256GB PCI4.0

2x 16GB ECC Kingston 3200Mhz  

1x RM550X

1x Gigabyte W480M

 

Sollte für die erste eigene NAS doch ein ordentlicher Anfang sein oder?

 

LG,

Daniel

Edited July 30, 2021 by GiGi

[mgutt]

3 hours ago, GiGi said:

Wie sicher ist man sich denn, dass die IGPU mit gvt-d nicht funktioniert? Das liegt ja glaube ich nur am Kernel oder?

 

@ich777 vermutet, dass es niemals gehen wird. Ich lasse aber sowieso grundsätzlich die Finger von ganz neuen Sachen. Denk auch dran, dass Intel den Legacy Mode ab der Gen gekippt hat. Du holst dir damit denke ich nur unnötig Hürden ins Haus.

 

3 hours ago, GiGi said:

Würdest du auch für Forenmitglieder bestellen und das privat abwickeln? Kommst du auch an einen 1270?

Ja. Ich frag den mal im Großhandel an und melde mich noch mal. Ich frage auch gleich nach zwei W480M. Dann hab ich auch endlich eins ^^

 

 

[ich777]

3 hours ago, mgutt said:

@ich777 vermutet, dass es niemals gehen wird. Ich lasse aber sowieso grundsätzlich die Finger von ganz neuen Sachen. Denk auch dran, dass Intel den Legacy Mode ab der Gen gekippt hat. Du holst dir damit denke ich nur unnötig Hürden ins Haus.

Sollte nicht an Legacy scheitern, aber solange das Intel nicht implementieren will hast du da wohl keine chance @GiGi, die sind da aber momentan nicht sehr interessiert daran wegen deren dGPUs die bald erscheinen da die eigentlich die gleiche Architektur verwenden.

[mjeshurun]

On 7/24/2021 at 11:31 PM, mgutt said:

You can use the Nvidia GPU in a VM. The Intel iGPU in several parallel. The AMD iGPU cannot be used in a VM at all.

Hi all,

Sorry if I'm reviving a somewhat old thread, but I'm also considering purchasing a Minisforum mini-pc to use as a small home server with 32-64GB RAM, 1 NVMe and 2 2.5" SATA SSD's.

As the Original Poster was trying to understand, I'm also trying to understand which CPU platform will be better when used with UnRAID.

To start, I would like to run at least 2 VM's (Linux and Windows 10/11) to run various self-hosted apps: Jellyfin, Nextcloud, RSS server, Matrix chats bridge, Wordpress and probably more self-hosted apps in the future.

From what I read, did I understand correctly that UnRAID can only passthrough virtual GPU to VM's running in parallel with Intel CPU's?

I was aiming to purchase an AMD based mini-pc, but if that won't allow me to run a few VM's with desktop GUI in parallel, maybe I'll switch my search to Intel based mini-pc's.

Hope someone can help.

Thank you.

[mgutt]

5 hours ago, mjeshurun said:

I was aiming to purchase an AMD based mini-pc, but if that won't allow me to run a few VM's with desktop GUI in parallel, maybe I'll switch my search to Intel based mini-pc's.

This is correct, but you aren't forced to have a GPU in your VM. This is only optional, but it's recommend if your VM is used as a client (and not only a server application) as without GPU video playback can be a problem.

[mjeshurun]

1 hour ago, mgutt said:

This is correct, but you aren't forced to have a GPU in your VM. This is only optional, but it's recommend if your VM is used as a client (and not only a server application) as without GPU video playback can be a problem.

 

Thank you very much for your explanation. 
What if my VM is used for a Jellyfin/Plex server? Would it not benefit from the virtual GPU if transcoding is needed when streaming content to another device?

Edited December 8, 2021 by mjeshurun

[mgutt]

1 hour ago, mjeshurun said:

Would it not benefit from the virtual GPU if transcoding is needed when streaming content to another device?

Of course it would. In this case you should go with an 8th to 10th Gen Intel CPU.

 

But why do you want to operate Jellyfin/Plex in a VM and not a docker container?

 

A completely different approach would be to go with AMD and install a Windows Server instead of Unraid. In this scenario Plex would be able to use the AMD iGPU. But Windows... 😅

[mjeshurun]

19 minutes ago, mgutt said:

But why do you want to operate Jellyfin/Plex in a VM and not a docker container?

 

Apologies, this will be my first home server project and I'm a noob, so I don't really have a good reason to run Jellyfin/Plex in a VM instead of a docker container.

From what I read so far on the net, I thought running them inside a VM would be better, but I guess I was wrong.

If I install a media server using docker, where should I actually install it on the system?

I understand UnRAID is stored on a USB flash drive. Do docker containers go on the flash drive too, or will I need to dedicate a certain amount of GB/TB for docker containers and app data on my main SSD (in a way it's unrelated to the VM's)?

If the media servers are installed as UnRAID docker apps, will they be able to use an AMD CPU/GPU?

Sorry for asking such basic questions.

 

Regarding Windows server, to be honest, I'm not a big fan of the Windows ecosystem, due to its unstableness. As my daily driver I much rather use mac. And in the case of the server, I assumed Linux based systems are more stable than Windows. But maybe I'm wrong about that.

Edited December 8, 2021 by mjeshurun

[mgutt]

21 minutes ago, mjeshurun said:

If I install a media server using docker, where should I actually install it on the system?

Containers are split between OS / application files and user files. By default OS files are stored in the docker.img (virtual disk), which is by default located on the cache pool. User files will be stored in the share "appdata", which is by default located on the cache pool as well. A container can be re-installed at anytime without loosing any data as only the user files are important.

 

For example my Plex user files are located at /mnt/user/appdata/Plex-Media-Server and have a size of 155GB (many thumbnails of multiple thousand movies). I should never delete them or my complete setup is gone. My docker setup is a little bit special. I changed from virtual disk (docker.img) to directory based installation (which can be changed through the Unraid docker settings). It did that, because it produces less wear on the SSDs and it uses less space. At the moment only 5.8G (10 containers) instead of the default 20GB docker.img. In addition I moved those files into a different share named /mnt/user/docker. Usually its located under /mnt/user/system/docker. There is no special reason for this change. IMHO it's only a better naming.

 

28 minutes ago, mjeshurun said:

I thought running them inside a VM would be better

Of course not. A VM uses virtual resources which add an overhead and reduce the overall performance. In addition it exclusively reserves these resources like the RAM. In contrast a container runs on the host itself and does not reserve any resources (except those it is using). As an example, my Plex container uses in idle 120 MB RAM. You can't even start a VM with such less RAM.

 

22 minutes ago, mjeshurun said:

Do docker containers go on the flash drive too

No. Only the container configuration (text file) is saved on the flash drive. It contains for example the location of the user files. My usb flash drive uses only 600 MB.

 

40 minutes ago, mjeshurun said:

If the media servers are installed as UnRAID docker apps, will they be able to use an AMD CPU/GPU?

Yes:

 

 

AFAIK Plex doesn't support it officially, but some users were able to use the iGPU:

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/79701-ryzen-gpu-drivers-for-apus-2200g2400g/?do=findComment&comment=952331

 

My personal references are

- 8th to 10th Gen Intel or

- AMD with an Nvidia dGPU

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mjeshurun]

12 hours ago, mgutt said:

Containers are split between OS / application files and user files. By default OS files are stored in the docker.img (virtual disk), which is by default located on the cache pool. User files will be stored in the share "appdata", which is by default located on the cache pool as well. A container can be re-installed at anytime without loosing any data as only the user files are important.

 

For example my Plex user files are located at /mnt/user/appdata/Plex-Media-Server and have a size of 155GB (many thumbnails of multiple thousand movies). I should never delete them or my complete setup is gone. My docker setup is a little bit special. I changed from virtual disk (docker.img) to directory based installation (which can be changed through the Unraid docker settings). It did that, because it produces less wear on the SSDs and it uses less space. At the moment only 5.8G (10 containers) instead of the default 20GB docker.img. In addition I moved those files into a different share named /mnt/user/docker. Usually its located under /mnt/user/system/docker. There is no special reason for this change. IMHO it's only a better naming.

 

Of course not. A VM uses virtual resources which add an overhead and reduce the overall performance. In addition it exclusively reserves these resources like the RAM. In contrast a container runs on the host itself and does not reserve any resources (except those it is using). As an example, my Plex container uses in idle 120 MB RAM. You can't even start a VM with such less RAM.

 

No. Only the container configuration (text file) is saved on the flash drive. It contains for example the location of the user files. My usb flash drive uses only 600 MB.

 

Yes:

 

 

AFAIK Plex doesn't support it officially, but some users were able to use the iGPU:

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/79701-ryzen-gpu-drivers-for-apus-2200g2400g/?do=findComment&comment=952331

 

My personal references are

- 8th to 10th Gen Intel or

- AMD with an Nvidia dGPU

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many gratitudes on the detailed answer. I really appreciate it.

I will look into everything you wrote further. 

[mjeshurun]

On 12/8/2021 at 11:03 PM, mgutt said:

My personal references are

- 8th to 10th Gen Intel or

Hi @mgutt,

I took the time to go over your suggestions and links.

From all I read and my future usage plans, I think I should take your advice and abandon my initial idea to use an AMD CPU and instead choose an Intel CPU that can properly pass-through the iGPU to several VM's at the same time.

If possible, I could use your help to check I choose hardware that allows to run about 3 VM's and make use of iGPU pass-through without "breaking the bank"

I was thinking of using the Intel Core i7-10700 (8cores/16threads 65w).

I'm unsure which motherboard chipset will be most suitable for a mini-itx form factor: z490, b560 or z590. Do you have any suggestions?

Are there major differences between these motherboards I should know of?

Would you recommend a specific PSU wattage?

Hope you can help 🙏