I am looking for the best + cheapest (curious combination eh? don't we all want this?) motherboard for my needs.

 

First the data:

 

- I already have 5 IDE disks that I plan to use.

 

- All the rest of disks I plan to use (over the ones above) will be SATA.

 

- I found that I have an SNX3700 PCI IDE controller in my closet (it is Sil0680ACL144 based controller).

 

- My only non-PCI-express system is my old server (now old, once powerful and still my workhorse) based on Asus P4C800-E Deluxe! It has 3 IDE ports (so it solves my IDE part of the deal) and 4 SATA ports and plenty of PCI (I think 5!)... It uses a 475-pin [email protected] and has 2GB of RAM. Ah, also has Gigabit Ethernet. You will see why I mention this.

 

My alternatives:

 

1) Also I found a P4P800-E Deluxe (in other words a mobo "dangerously" close to my server mobo). 5 PCI, 3 IDE controllers, 4 SATA and messed up audio-chip (who cares)... this would mean I need to look for some P4 478 CPU, RAM (I think I have RAM somewhere) and AGP VGA (that I surely have somewhere)... this for 50 euro plus of course the price for the CPU if I need to buy it...

 

disk controllers: ICH5R + Promise PDC20378

Gbe: Marvell 88E8001

 

2) I have found, a P5LD2 Deluxe for 55 euro, but will need 775 CPU, RAM, some VGA... it has 2 PCI-e x16 (useless to me the second), 1 PCI-e x1 (is any controller card that goes here, compatible with unRAID?), 3 PCI for my extra future SATA controllers

 

disk controllers:  ICH7R + ITE 8211F +  Silicon Image 3132

Gbe: Marvell 88E8053

 

3) Use my old server (which IS an overkill, but then, what would be a better retirement for this system if not to become unRAID?) and buy this P5LD2 Deluxe mentioned above, buy the cheapest C2D CPU I can find (will [email protected] be really slower than my P4 3.2 for "every day work"? - remember I have a different HTPC and a different "gaming" PC), again 2GB RAM (but this time DDR2/667), some basic PCI-e VGA (I think I might have one somewhere) and rebuild my server. About 130 euro plus the 55 of the mobo.

 

disk controllers: ICH5R + Promise PDC20378

Gbe: Intel 82547EI

 

What would you do? All three have Gbe (but don't know which is supported - HELP?), plenty of IDE/SATA to start (but again I don't know which is supported)...

 

One option leaves my server as is (less fuss but no upgrade) and unSERVER with comparable specs but is probably the cheapest, second option is to give money for unRAID and leave my server with older technology (a pitty or will unSERVER be "better" for me like that?) and the last option is the same as the second but also means swapping (fuss but upgrade -if 2160 is upgrade- my main machine) and give my older spec machine some nice "secondary" job for the rest of its life.

 

Help me choose?

 

 

This may help.

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility

 

 

Cheers,

Bill

seen this, but is very limited

 

I am sure real compatibility is wider...

 

 

If you plan to have > 10 disks, I would strongly recommend a PCI-e based solution, I was using Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe with 12 disks, 4 onboard SATA + 4 onboard Sil 3114 (PCI based) + 4 on 2 PCI Sil 3112 and I was getting a terrible parity check speed (around 13.5 Mb/s – 8 drives on PCI bus), that’s 10 hours to rebuild a disk in case of failure or when I change a small one to a bigger one, witch I plan doing regularly. I replaced the 2 Sil 3112 controlleres with 2 Sil 3132 PCI-e controllers and now parity check is around 30mb/s – 4 hours for rebuild. (this maybe different on Intel boards, Nforce is a single chip solution so there is no bottleneck on the south/north bridge connection, don’t now if it’s the same for Intel chipsets.)

 

By the way, the 2nd PCI-e x16 can be used for a PCI-e x1 controller, I tried mine on the SLI 2nd slot and it works fine.

 

As to compatibility, I think (and please don't hold me to this), that almost everything you listed above should be supported, and is used by others here.  The exceptions I note are the SNX3700 (which I know nothing about), and the Promise PDC20378, which a little research seems to indicate only support for the 2 SATA ports, NOT the IDE (but I may be wrong).

 

A search for the SNX 3700 (or any Sil 0680 based cards) found lots of general hostility, and a possibility that it *might* be supported in Linux, but would be unstable.  In general, complaints about the card were met with "get something else".  I don't think I would risk it.  As cheap as IDE Promise controllers are, why bother.

 

ok both comments are helpful

 

forgot to include this info: P5LD2 Deluxe, 3 IDE + 4 (or maybe 5) SATA

 

so, second option might need some more "attention" after all (I was leaning towards the third option - involving the same hardware with the second after all)

 

so maybe I should go forward with this mobo?

 

can somebody give me some more help with this - by help meaning double-check compatibility:

 

disk controllers:  ICH7R + ITE 8211F +  Silicon Image 3132

Gbe: Marvell 88E8053

 

(maybe LIME TECH guys... ahem... hello, where are you?)

 

 

OK I have a new option, tell me which one would you choose...

 

ASUS P5GD2-X + P4 3.2GHz + 2x512 667 ...he wants 140 euro but I think it is much and will try for 100.

 

Specs: 915P+ICH6, 1 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1 (!), 3 PCI, 1 IDE (remember I need to connect four IDE disks minimum), gigabit LAN

 

disk controllers: ICH6

Gbe: Marvell 88E8053

 

So would you buy this? And for how much?

 

Is the hardware supported or relatively easy to support?

 

Please help.

 

And to sum the alternatives:

 

Option #1 is the above. He asks 140 (I think to much and will talk for 100).

 

Option #2 is #2 of my first post (both from the same seller). He asks 150 for this (with the CPU and RAM of the above - as he is the same seller and can install them on any of the two mobo) which I also think is too much and will talk for 110, esp. since he evaluates his [email protected] for 75 euro (!!!) when a NEW retail C2D retail goes for 65 (inc. tax 19% that I get back as I am a professional).

 

So which one would you choose. #1, #2 or none? For what price?

 

 

100 views and no opinion?

 

I hope a couple of people will eventually spend 2 minutes of their life to help this newbie.

 

 

I suppose many of us are not particularly familiar with euros or your current market conditions for used computer parts.  I have to confess some ignorance myself, but if dollars and euros and market conditions are at all comparable to here, then I have to say your seller is dreaming on option #1, or trying to taking advantage of less-informed people.  Option #2 looks better.  Can you get it without his P4, and add the C2D you mentioned?  Do you have any other sources, with boards with more SATA ports?

 

Compatibility should be fine, although not 100% sure on the ITE 8211F, I *think* you're OK.

 

The P5GD2-X will give adequate performance, but will need more addon cards at extra cost for the ports you need.  Its 4 SATA ports are SATA150, but that's only a minor performance loss.  The P5LD2 will give you better performance (faster busses, memory, and all SATA300), and already has more ports, so this seems the better choice.

 

Thanks, that is indeed an good educated opinion.

 

The problem with the newer board, is that is not that new to support C2D (a newer revision does support it), so my best choice is either this CPU he already gives me or a P4D (you know, the one before C2D, which I hate and I think is the worst CPU family intel produced, for years).

 

I do agree with your feedback though.

 

The thing is, how much would you pay (ok in YOUR market and your currency - I can do the translation) for that second choice?

 

 

A dual core CPU is wasted on unRAID.

so should I try to hit that second option you think?

 

 

I'm not sure how useful a faraway opinion is, especially when it comes to used parts.  My opinions on pricing are particularly unwanted, because I'm considered a horrible bargainer, I'm too interested in helping the bargainer.  I am more likely to come home with stuff I don't need, at a higher price than anyone else would have paid, but happy the bargainer's kids have something to eat.

 

What works best for me is to educate myself thoroughly about all of the choices, and I purchase online as much as possible.  For used equipment, I'd be checking out all of the local sources, local classifieds, and services like CraigsList, and Ebay sellers with very high feedback, to gain a good idea of what's available and at what price.  I would also check out Newegg or comparable, because prices have dropped amazingly over the last year for boards, memory, and CPU's.

 

Then after doing that, you'll have a better idea as to pricing of the P5LD2 and others.  It is still a decent but not great choice, especially at a lower price.  If it were me, I'd be looking for more onboard SATA ports.  You have to buy them anyway, onboard or addon.

 

I tend to go back to thinking of using the mobo in my "old" server (see post #1).

 

Indeed PCI bottleneck COULD be a problem, but remember this is a (once) hi-end motherboard.

*** I need to ask now (johnnie.black?) would PCI performance affect me in "everyday" work? Or just when parity needs rebuild?

 

I initially won't need an extra card, but will be fine with maybe 8 disks (4 IDE + 4 SATA).

 

Maybe when this won't be enough, one of my other two computers (both PCI-e boards by Asus), is ready to give its place and I'll make a "shift" (btw how easy is this? - better write a new post for this)...

 

I prefer giving maybe 180 to a brand new system (even lowest end C2D), than 150 or even 140 to an older system.

 

What do you think?

 

 

There is a 200GB/sec bandwidth bottleneck you will hit for combined I/O.  You won't generally hit this until you get 5 drives or more, and usually not till 8 or more, and that becomes the main bottleneck for doing parity checks (reading from all drives simultaneously and writing to parity).

I plan to have 4 IDE + 2 or 3 SATA initially.

 

So do I have a problem?

 

 

I tend to go back to thinking of using the mobo in my "old" server (see post #1).

 

Indeed PCI bottleneck COULD be a problem, but remember this is a (once) hi-end motherboard.

*** I need to ask now (johnnie.black?) would PCI performance affect me in "everyday" work? Or just when parity needs rebuild?

 

I initially won't need an extra card, but will be fine with maybe 8 disks (4 IDE + 4 SATA).

 

Maybe when this won't be enough, one of my other two computers (both PCI-e boards by Asus), is ready to give its place and I'll make a "shift" (btw how easy is this? - better write a new post for this)...

 

I prefer giving maybe 180 to a brand new system (even lowest end C2D), than 150 or even 140 to an older system.

 

What do you think?

 

 

I have an all IDE array on the original Intel recommended motherboard with 8 data drives currently populated. Largest of them is 500 Gig.

 

It takes 450 - 500 minutes to calculate parity, but the only time I need to do that is if I don't shut the array down cleanly.

I've simulated a failed drive by stopping the array and un-assigning a disk and then starting it up.

 

From the then missing disk, I've been able to play 4 separate ISO DVD images to 4 different clients on my lan.  While doing this, the missing contents needs to be re-constructed from the parity drive and all the other drives.  (this is the other time there is a lot of activity on the PCI buss)

 

Then, I re-assigned the missing drive and had it rebuild it, at the same time I played 4 different ISO images from the disk being rebuilt. 

 

Now, these were not HD streams, but ISO images that had not been further compressed. (each averaged between 5 and 7 GIg)

 

With all this in mind, I was very happy. Even with the "degraded" state of a missing drive it kept up with playing media.

We would never watch 4 different movies at once in this house, so it easily keeps up with any real-world demands I'd have.  A faster CPU/PCI buss might make parity calc faster, but that does nothing when watching movies.

 

Joe L.

OK, this closes the subject.

 

I will be building the array on my old server hardware, get some cheapo-but-modern mobo with some 2160 C2D (which is still faster than my [email protected] according to Tom's Hardware) and cheapo 667 DDR2 RAM (which still is faster than my 400 DDR). Rest will remain the same.

 

 

The PCI bottleneck only affects parity build, it’s important for me because I plan to replace smaller drives with bigger ones regularly, it does not affect normal use performance.

 

There is a 200GB/sec bandwidth bottleneck you will hit for combined I/O.

 

I think you mean MegaBytes, if so this is not true, on my 2nd unRaid server I’m getting 49MB/s parity sync speed with 10 drives, that’s 490MB/s total.

I plan the same, but one drive at a time (of course) and no problem to do one each day.

 

 

Yes, it should have been 200 GB/sec.

 

I'd be interested in what mobo supports that data rate. I'm only aware of a few like that.

 

I'd also be interested what BWM-NG says about your I/O.  You can get it here:

 

  http://www.linuxpackages.net/search_view.php?by=name&name=bwm-ng&ver=12.0

 

I have found it indispensable for examining I/O issues on Linux and unRAID in particular.

I hope I will have news before new year's eve.

 

Also I hope we'll hear from Tom soon, because to be honest I am even SCARED to order something that costs $150 (and is just software) from an invisible developer.

 

 

Both my unRaid servers are based on AMD Nforce4 boards, because they are single chip design there’s no south/north bridge bottleneck, I believe any board based on that chipset will have similar performance unless you saturate the PCI bus with PCI sata controllers.

 

Server 1

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe with AMD 64 3000+ (1.8GHz)

4 - onboard Nforce SATA

4 - onboard Sil 3114 (PCI based)

2 - PCI-e 1x Sil 3132

2 - PCI-e 1x Sil 3132

 

12 drives total, getting about 30MB/s parity sync, bottleneck here are the 4 drives on the Sil 3114 controller

 

Server 2

Asus M2N-MX with AMD Sempron 3200+ (1.8Ghz)

4 - onboard Nforce SATA

2 - PCI-e 1x Sil 3132

2 - PCI-e 1x Sil 3132

2 - PCI Sil 3112

 

10 drives total, getting about 49MB/s parity sync, with the cpu underclocked to 1.0GHz I was getting 40MB/s sync speed, so even at 1.8 I think the CPU is the bottleneck here cause I should get a little more than 49Mb/s at the start of the parity sync (maybe around 55-60MB/s)

 

NLS, stop whining,

Unraid is probably not for you, I can recommend Microsoft Home Server. I is nice old tech in new wrapping, and from a relatively large company.

Disclaimer: I do own Microsoft stock.

/Rene