Is this a good mobo + cpu bundle for unraid?

[Blu]

As the title says would this be a good bundle for a unraid server?

 

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=59963&vpn=H61M-D2P-B3%26i3%202100&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals&promoid=1322

 

Basically it's the following,

 

Intel Core i3 2100 Processor

Gigabyte GA-H61M-D2P-B3 mATX LGA1155 H61 DDR3 1PCI-E16 1PCI-E 2PCI SATA2 DVI Video Sound Motherboard

 

I'm really just trying to get the best possible set up for running fast pre clears and by what some of you said the FSB of the cpu/mobo would make the biggest difference. I would also be tossing in Rip jaws or mushkin ram (8GB) with this combo. Or how about this combo?

 

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182161&cm_re=supermicro-_-13-182-161-_-Product

SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SEA-O LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI ATX Intel Motherboard &

Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 Quad Core Processor LGA775 2.66GHZ 1333FSB 4MB

 

What do you guys think?

[KYThrill]

Neither.  Both use the Realtek 8111 ethernet controller, which is know to be buggy or flat out not work with unRAID.  You will likely end up having to spend $20-$30 more to get a good NIC card for either of those, which sort of kills the deal.

 

Also, the Gigabyte board may cause HPA problems.  Always a chance when you go Gigabyte.

[prostuff1]

Neither.  Both use the Realtek 8111 ethernet controller, which is know to be buggy or flat out not work with unRAID.  You will likely end up having to spend $20-$30 more to get a good NIC card for either of those, which sort of kills the deal.

Please, stop just outright saying that neither will work.

 

The Supermicro board is on the Hardware Compatibility Page and has been level 2 tested.  I do not doubt that the board will work just fine, save for any broken hardware that might appear.

 

The Gigabyte is not on the Hardware Compatibility Page nor is the Realtek 8111E (notice the E at the end).  HPA could be a problem, though it seems like lately that HPA is disabled by default on most/all newer gigabyte boards.

 

 

I do not doubt there might be some driver issues, but blindly dismissing 2 motherboards based on the fact that they have a realtek NIC is not a good habit to get into.  Atheros NIC's fine, they have almost always sucked for use with unRAID, but most realtek NIC's work just fine in the latest versions of unRAID.

 

I have a gigabyte board with a realtek NIC and have never had a problem with it. I have run a number of different versions of unRAID since I joined and none have caused me to have problems with my NIC.

 

 

KYThrill - If you gather together the posts and send Lime Tech and email with all the details he may be able to update the kernel (thereby the driver), or build the new driver himself for inclusion into the kernel.

[KYThrill]

Neither.  Both use the Realtek 8111 ethernet controller, which is know to be buggy or flat out not work with unRAID.  You will likely end up having to spend $20-$30 more to get a good NIC card for either of those, which sort of kills the deal.

Please, stop just outright saying that neither will work.

 

The Supermicro board is on the Hardware Compatibility Page and has been level 2 tested.  I do not doubt that the board will work just fine, save for any broken hardware that might appear.

 

The Gigabyte is not on the Hardware Compatibility Page nor is the Realtek 8111E (notice the E at the end).  HPA could be a problem, though it seems like lately that HPA is disabled by default on most/all newer gigabyte boards.

 

 

I do not doubt there might be some driver issues, but blindly dismissing 2 motherboards based on the fact that they have a realtek NIC is not a good habit to get into.  Atheros NIC's fine, they have almost always sucked for use with unRAID, but most realtek NIC's work just fine in the latest versions of unRAID.

 

I have a gigabyte board with a realtek NIC and have never had a problem with it. I have run a number of different versions of unRAID since I joined and none have caused me to have problems with my NIC.

 

 

KYThrill - If you gather together the posts and send Lime Tech and email with all the details he may be able to update the kernel (thereby the driver), or build the new driver himself for inclusion into the kernel.

 

Get your facts straight.  I didn't dismiss them because they have a Realtek NIC.  I use a Realtek 8211 NIC on my current unRAID build, and it works just fine.  I dismissed them because they use the 8111 Realtek NIC.  This has been a notoriously buggy NIC.  Just search the forums.  You can go a step further.  Search Google and you will see that the 8111 was notorious for problems on any Linux based system.  I believe that today, with the latest linux drivers, the 8111 works fine in linux.  But the kernel currently used by unRAID does not contain the latest drivers, so you get bugs.

 

And that board was Level 2 certified on unRAID 4.4.2.  They ping ponged the 8111 drivers around on nearly every build of 4.X because they couldn't get it working right.  One build would have one driver, then they would change drivers the next, build, then change back, and then change to another different driver.  So who knows where they were at in  that process with 4.4.2.  Maybe it had a driver that halfway worked.  Just because it worked for one version in 2009 doesn't mean it would work on 4.7 or the 5.0 betas.

 

Sure, the 8111 does work for some people.  It is a horrible mess for others.  I'd say anytime you see a 8111 chipset on a motherboard you probably have a 50/50 chance of it working out for you.

 

I think HPA is more a problem from the standpoint of someone new, who doesn't exactly know what it is, accidentally enabling it in the BIOS and then hosing their unRAID.  Then that person who is new to unRAID has to stumble through the steps of removing HPA, potentially causing them to loose data if they don't perform that process correctly.  Why chance it on a new build? ( I have and can understand using a Gigabyte board if it is something already in your possession).

[defected07]

Neither.  Both use the Realtek 8111 ethernet controller, which is know to be buggy or flat out not work with unRAID.  You will likely end up having to spend $20-$30 more to get a good NIC card for either of those, which sort of kills the deal.

Please, stop just outright saying that neither will work.

 

The Supermicro board is on the Hardware Compatibility Page and has been level 2 tested.  I do not doubt that the board will work just fine, save for any broken hardware that might appear.

 

The Gigabyte is not on the Hardware Compatibility Page nor is the Realtek 8111E (notice the E at the end).  HPA could be a problem, though it seems like lately that HPA is disabled by default on most/all newer gigabyte boards.

 

 

I do not doubt there might be some driver issues, but blindly dismissing 2 motherboards based on the fact that they have a realtek NIC is not a good habit to get into.  Atheros NIC's fine, they have almost always sucked for use with unRAID, but most realtek NIC's work just fine in the latest versions of unRAID.

 

I have a gigabyte board with a realtek NIC and have never had a problem with it. I have run a number of different versions of unRAID since I joined and none have caused me to have problems with my NIC.

 

 

KYThrill - If you gather together the posts and send Lime Tech and email with all the details he may be able to update the kernel (thereby the driver), or build the new driver himself for inclusion into the kernel.

 

Thatd be nice as I've purchased an Intel card, and would prefer to use the on board (obviously).

 

My issues occur when transferring large amounts of data at maximum speeds over AFP/SMB.  Using both a Gigabit Airport Extreme router, and also a gigabit Trendnet switch.

[KYThrill]

I've seen a whole slew of different problems with the 8111 chipset.  Sometimes unRAID won't even boot.  Sometimes it boots but has no network connection.  Sometimes it boots, has a connection, but can't be made to go faster than Fast Ethernet, even though it is supposed to be Gigabit.  Sometimes they lock up when a large amount of data is transferred. Sometimes they don't wake up after being suspended by ACPI.  Etc., etc.

 

But the problem quickly gets too complex to trouble shoot.  After all, there is a 8111, 8111B, 8111C, 8111CL, 8111D, 8111DL, 8111DP, 8111E, 8111S, and probably more that I'm not aware of.  Then unRAID I think has been through about 5 different 8111 drivers in the 4.X series.  So there are probably 40-50 different combinations of chipset/driver version to try and keep track of, and then make heads or tales of which combos work and which don't, and who has what problem with which combo.

 

I know that Realtek released a new 8111 driver for the 2.4.X and 2.6.X kernel on 04/19/2011.  They should probably make sure this new version is included in the final 5.0 release, assuming it would compile without errors (past driver updates would error when compiling, which is part of the reason they ping-ponged so much on the driver).

[Rajahal]

KYThrill: I agree with prostuff1 that your dismissal of all Realtek 8111 NICs is a mistake.  Many of the boards I use in my builds have Realtek 8111 NICs.  For example, the Biostar A760G M2+ which I use in my budget builds uses the Realtek RTL8111C.  It is fully compatible with unRAID, no problems what-so-ever.  Another example is the older Supermicro C2SEE which uses the same Realtek 8111C.  Again, fully tested and no problems with unRAID.

 

If you search these forums you'll see that the current problems with Realtek NICs revolve around the Realtek 8111E.  As far as I know, all the other Realtek NICs that you listed are perfectly compatible with unRAID (please cite examples if you have evidence to the contrary).  If you want to blanket out the Realtek 8111E as being incompatible with unRAID, I think that is a fair generalization.  However, please do not write off all Realtek 8111 NICs just because of one bad apple.

 

I do want to thank you for reminding me about the recent troubles with this NIC and prompting me to do a bit of research into the Realtek NICs.  Because of this thread, I added a new section to the wiki:

 

Hardware known NOT to work - Network Interface Controllers

 

Please let me know if you agree with my summary of the issue.

[defected07]

I've had problems with the Realtek on my Biostar. Haven't experienced the problem again since installing my Intel. I'd love to have the onboard NIC though.

[S80_UK]

To add to the Realtek NIC discussion - I have RTL8111D in my server using a Gigabyte GA-D510UD motherboard.  Very stable and no HPA issues either (BIOS backup disabled by default).

[Rajahal]

I've had problems with the Realtek on my Biostar. Haven't experienced the problem again since installing my Intel. I'd love to have the onboard NIC though.

 

Which NIC does your board use?  Or are you referring to the Biostar A760G M2+?

[defected07]

Yes, I have the Biostar A760G M2+, so whichever NIC is on there.  I know it's a Realtek--I forget which one.

[grandprix]

Yes, I have the Biostar A760G M2+, so whichever NIC is on there.  I know it's a Realtek--I forget which one.

 

It has the 8111C, as Raj pointed out.  Odd you're having issues with it, what issues did you have?

[defected07]

When transferring a queue of multi-gigabyte files from my Mac to the unRAID over gigabit connection, the connection just drops.  I can't connect to the router over Ethernet after--and it doesn't seem to be the router, as I've added an Intel NIC to the unRAID, and the problem seems to have gone away

 

I also added a Trendnet gigabit switch, so maybe I should try it out again with the on-board NIC.  The other switch was an Airport Extreme, which was acting as a bridge to the AT&T RG in the basement--connected via Ethernet cable.

 

Ugh, so many factors in the mix, but I'll try to push the limits of the Intel NIC and see if I can't drop the ethernet connection (I say ethernet connection, because the WiFi of the router didn't drop--only hard-wired connections)

[KYThrill]

I can't say I've personally had an 8111 problem, but I had a Gigabyte board GA-G41M-ES2H with a Realtek 8110SC NIC.  When I first started using unRAID, Gigabit worked fine.  Then it stopped working and would only negotiate Fast Ethernet.  I wrote it off at the time as a bad NIC.  Then I was turned on to how unRAID was having problems with Realtek drivers compiling and some NIC's were troublesome.  I then realized that I been upgrading Betas and that drivers had possibly been changing through the Betas.  So I tried the board again on Windows and the NIC worked fine at Gigabit speeds.  Plugged a unRAID thumb drive in and no Gigabit, not even if you tried to force it.  So the problem was strictly with that NIC in unRAID, which means it was a driver problem. 

[KYThrill]

KYThrill: I agree with prostuff1 that your dismissal of all Realtek 8111 NICs is a mistake.  Many of the boards I use in my builds have Realtek 8111 NICs.  For example, the Biostar A760G M2+ which I use in my budget builds uses the Realtek RTL8111C.  It is fully compatible with unRAID, no problems what-so-ever.  Another example is the older Supermicro C2SEE which uses the same Realtek 8111C.  Again, fully tested and no problems with unRAID.

 

If you search these forums you'll see that the current problems with Realtek NICs revolve around the Realtek 8111E.  As far as I know, all the other Realtek NICs that you listed are perfectly compatible with unRAID (please cite examples if you have evidence to the contrary).  If you want to blanket out the Realtek 8111E as being incompatible with unRAID, I think that is a fair generalization.  However, please do not write off all Realtek 8111 NICs just because of one bad apple.

 

I do want to thank you for reminding me about the recent troubles with this NIC and prompting me to do a bit of research into the Realtek NICs.  Because of this thread, I added a new section to the wiki:

 

Hardware known NOT to work - Network Interface Controllers

 

Please let me know if you agree with my summary of the issue.

 

In addition to defected07's problem with the 8111C,  here are some more:

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6780.0  (a couple of problems were Atheros NICs, but one was a 8111C)

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=967.0  (more details from lime on the Realtek driver problem, and problems with 8111B)

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7758.0 (maybe an 8111C problem, OP has a problem and someone responds they had the same problem which was fixed by changing their NIC)

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2159.0 (maybe an 8111C problem, OP was about bad networking connection, but thread got muddled with a multitude of other problems, one poster with a 8111C said they were having the same problem, but didn't reference which problem, plus most peoples problems appeared to go away with an update to a newer unRAID Beta (so perhaps an 8111 dirver change)

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2797.0 (8111B that won't WOL)

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5541.0 (8111C that won't WOL until they rolled back to a previous unRAID version, driver issue)

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=4320.0 (8111C problem in a Beta, fixed by rolling back, driver issue)

 

And the list goes on and on and on...

 

I've seen numerous problems with 8111B, 8111C, and 8111E, both onboard controllers and add-on cards.  Problems vary and many problems come and go as drivers get changed, works in one version and then not in the next.  As Lime pointed out, the Realtek drivers are sort of a mess.  And I think alot of the time, when you hear, "My onboard NIC was bad...", what that might really have meant was that I had an 8111 NIC, updated my unRAID, ran it for a few days without noticing any problems so I thought all was good, but now their are problems so my NIC must be "bad".  Never mind that it may have actually just been a driver problem. Hindsight into these issues is 20/20.

 

I do think there was a time when their wasn't a problem with the 8111 series of NIC's, and so it was probably added to the compatibility list then.  However, I think that time has come and gone and you are opening yourself up to a lot of headache buying any board with a 8111, 8168/8169 series controller.  I think sometimes it will work with certain combos of NIC chipset/MB manufacturer/unRAID version.  There are some combinations that are trouble free, and others that are massive headaches.

 

And like I said, these problems were not initially limited to just unRAID, but were problems across the whole Linux spectrum.  The unRAID kernel is just running behind and doesn't have the level of "fix" that something like an updated Ubuntu kernel has, so the problems still crop up in unRAID.

 

And its one thing to try to make an 8111 MB work for you if you already have it.  It works well enough sometimes that it might be worth a shot (maybe you don't need WOL, or gigabit speeds, or whatever the particular problem with your combo) since you already have the hardware.  But to suggest it to a new user who is purchasing new hardware, and who will have limited knowledge on how to address any issues (or even be aware what the issues are) isn't something I would do.  Not when it could be avoided all together by just purchasing a different MB with a different NIC.

 

I will admit I've never seen anyone post a problem with the Supermicro C2SEE, and I'm sure that since it was the official MB of Lime for awhile, that it probably underwent testing on Beta versions.  And that Lime would nor release a final version that was incompatible with the server that they had sold many of (and probably still serviced).  So the C2SEE may be a safe motherboard with the 8111C/C2SEE/4.7 unRAID combo.  Maybe the Biostar A760G M2+ is another combo that works.  But based on the widespread problems I've seen reported, I don't think it is safe to say that all 8111C MB's will work, all 8111B's will work, etc.  I think it is very hit and miss.

 

 

[defected07]

I don't recall when my issue occurred.  I only had 4.7 for a week or two before moving to 5.0 betas.  This problem only appears to occur when maxing out the gigabit transfer.  It happened both at my house, on my Macbook Pro to unRAID--via Airport Extreme gigabit ethernet.  It also happened at my friends' house, from his Windows server to my unRAID server--via D-Link Xtreme Gaming (or something) gigabit ethernet.  As soon as I limited the transfer (to <= 40 MB/s) in his transfer client (Total Commander), it seemed to be more stable.  I was maxing out at around 50-60 MB/s on average, with outliers in the 70s.

 

Once I installed the Intel NIC (only tested at home with same Macbook Pro, but now using a Trendnet Gigabit switch), speeds are about the same, but hasn't brought down the ethernet network since...

[Rajahal]

Thank you for the detailed bug reports on the Realtek NICs.  I'm flagging this thread, and I'll come back to it when I have more time and look into this further.  Unfortunately I'm moving during the next two weeks, so it might be a while.

[KYThrill]

If you investigate Realtek NIC's in general, I can also add that the Realtek 8211CL has an older driver in unRAID.  The 8211CL supports jumbo frames, but in unRAID jumbo frames are not supported.  It is strictly a linux driver issue and jumbo frames are supported with the newest drivers.

[PeterB]

I've seen numerous problems with 8111B, 8111C, and 8111E, both onboard controllers and add-on cards.  Problems vary and many problems come and go as drivers get changed, works in one version and then not in the next.

 

I do wonder whether this is purely a driver problem - some manufacturers appear to get reliable performance from their Realtek implementation, irrespective of the driver version.  Perhaps there is a critical issue with the design/layout of the supporting circuitry?

 

Also, this is not the first time that Realtek has shown this kind of instability - I remember having severe problems with Realtek ethernet cards around 15 years ago, in a Windows environment.

[KYThrill]

All I know is that the trend I have seen in this case is that performance does seem to vary with the driver.  However, it's possible that it is implementation specific.  I would think that alot of people would have to be using the C2SEE board since it was the board of choice for a long time.  I'm sure that at least some of these people also run beta versions of unRAID, where driver changes occur most often.  Yet I don't see a stream of C2SEE users coming through with network problems.

 

Most often the  problem seems to be with Asus or Gigabyte, but obviously occurs with other brands too (Abit, Biostar, etc).  This is probably just anecdotal though, as Asus and Gigabyte probably have the biggest market shares, so statistically, you would see problems on them more often.