Old Components

[Netbug]

Sorry to bother. Really new to this.

 

I've got an old ASUS P4P800-E board, unknown processor (probably something around the 2ghz range), 2GB RAM. The board has two SATA ports on it. I've got a couple of drives laying around. I'd like to see if I can get unRAID going on this.

 

Questions:

1. If I get it running, and later, decide to upgrade to a more powerful system, can I move the drives to that new system without losing data?

2. Do I need any special sort of cable to hook up the drives? Or just a standard SATA cable?

3. Really noob question, does a SATA channel work like an IDE channel where you can have more than one drive on a single channel? If so, what cables are needed?

 

Sorry for the really idiotic questions.

[SSD]

Sorry to bother. Really new to this.

 

I've got an old ASUS P4P800-E board, unknown processor (probably something around the 2ghz range), 2GB RAM. The board has two SATA ports on it. I've got a couple of drives laying around. I'd like to see if I can get unRAID going on this.

 

Questions:

1. If I get it running, and later, decide to upgrade to a more powerful system, can I move the drives to that new system without losing data?

2. Do I need any special sort of cable to hook up the drives? Or just a standard SATA cable?

3. Really noob question, does a SATA channel work like an IDE channel where you can have more than one drive on a single channel? If so, what cables are needed?

 

Sorry for the really idiotic questions.

 

Your old motherboard will most likely work fine. But withou PCIe slots, expansion will be limited. Not sure of the NIC speed with that MB, you will want gigabit. You can upgrade your system and keep using you flash and drives very easily.

 

SATA is different and easier than IDE. One port to one drive with one SATA cable.  No master/slave. No jumpers (usually). You will never want to go back to IDE after SATA!

[intertan]

so I used old equipment before I got my new unraid server

I had the first single core atom board that came out, slaped it together with a 4 port sata card + the 2 on the board made it 6. It woked fine but was underpowered to do things. Parity check took 2 days. When I upgraded everything was new except the flash drive and harddrives. once booted I told unraid which drive for what slot and all went well.

 

 

[joshpond]

1. If I get it running, and later, decide to upgrade to a more powerful system, can I move the drives to that new system without losing data?

Yes, you just have to tell unraid which HDD is which, pretty easy to do.

 

2. Do I need any special sort of cable to hook up the drives? Or just a standard SATA cable?

Just a standard SATA cable

 

3. Really noob question, does a SATA channel work like an IDE channel where you can have more than one drive on a single channel? If so, what cables are needed?

One port one hdd. Simple

 

I have a similar version, an ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe. I don't think mine booted to the usb and loaded unRAID though I didn't really try for too long, was just playing with a spare to try and preclear more drives. You can always give it a try, you won't lose anything by trying.

 

Josh

[Netbug]

Thanks for the replies, folks.

 

I simply don't have the funds to do a complete overhaul right now, but I'm saving up to build a system similar to the one listed here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=10085.0

 

A couple more questions (if it's recommended to start a new thread, I'll gladly do so, just don't want to spam):

 

1. If I elect to spend a few hundred to get a new board/ram/cpu, is there a recommended Intel build? Most of the stuff around here seems to be AMD and I've had much better luck over the past 15 years with Intel. I'd really be more comfortable with them. (The builds in the wiki are dated from 2010 as well).

 

2. Could someone explain to me, or point me to some resources that explain what a "Reverse Breakout Cable" does/is for?

 

3. I'm confused about the controller cards; the build linked above has 2 "SATA2 Serial ATA II PCI-Express RAID Controller Card" and then one "SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS RAID Controller". What's the difference? Clearly there is one as one is literally 10x the cost. If I'm only starting with three drives, do I need to purchase these?

 

4. I've never used a hard disk stacker. The case I'll be using is a Coolermaster Centurion 5 (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=21). Most of the stackers seem to be 3-5 or 3-4. This case would seem to have 5x5.25" bays. The only coolermaster one I can find is http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002 (which isn't even on the CM site as near as I can tell). Has anyone ever seen a 5-* HD rack? Should I just go with the 3-4?

 

Thanks again for your time.

[Rajahal]

1. If I elect to spend a few hundred to get a new board/ram/cpu, is there a recommended Intel build? Most of the stuff around here seems to be AMD and I've had much better luck over the past 15 years with Intel. I'd really be more comfortable with them. (The builds in the wiki are dated from 2010 as well).

See my 'prototype builds' thread (link in my signature).  There are a few Intel builds listed there.  They tend to be more expensive but work just as well.

 

2. Could someone explain to me, or point me to some resources that explain what a "Reverse Breakout Cable" does/is for?

It connects a miniSAS backplane (such as those found in the Norco 4220 and 4224) to regular SATA ports on a motherboard or SATA controller card.

 

3. I'm confused about the controller cards; the build linked above has 2 "SATA2 Serial ATA II PCI-Express RAID Controller Card" and then one "SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS RAID Controller". What's the difference? Clearly there is one as one is literally 10x the cost. If I'm only starting with three drives, do I need to purchase these?

The first are 2 port cards supporting 2 drives each.  The SASLP is an 8 port card supporting 8 drives (requires special cables...the cables you choose depend on which type of build you want, tower or rackmount.  Again, see my prototypes thread.)

 

4. I've never used a hard disk stacker. The case I'll be using is a Coolermaster Centurion 5 (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=21). Most of the stackers seem to be 3-5 or 3-4. This case would seem to have 5x5.25" bays. The only coolermaster one I can find is http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002 (which isn't even on the CM site as near as I can tell). Has anyone ever seen a 5-* HD rack? Should I just go with the 3-4?

Nope, so such thing as a 5-* HDD cage.  I recommend the 5-in-3 cages if you can afford them as they offer the best drive density.  4-in-3 is fine too if you are on a tight budget.

[Netbug]

Thanks very much, Raj. I've gone through your builds and modified as needed for budgetary constraints.

 

I'm still confused about the SATA cards and cables. However for the first build, I don't THINK that's going to be an issue. The ASUS board that I have listed, has the following for storage:

 

ICH5R South Bridge:

-2 x UltraDMA 100/66/33

-2 x Serial ATA, RAID 0,1 function

Promise 20378 RAID controller:

-1 x UltraDMA 133 support two hard drives

-2 x Serial ATA

-RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 0+1, Multiple RAID

 

With what's listed there, I can put a maximum of how many drives on there?

 

Build 1: This build it my first attempt. I will be using used components that I have. Limited to 3 drives to start.

Existing components:

MOBO - ASUS P4P800-E (http://ca.asus.com/en/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_478/P4P800E_Deluxe/)

CASE - Coolermaster Centurion 5 (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=21)

CPU - Unknown at present; probably an early dual-core Intel

RAM - Unknown at present 2GB

PSU - Unknown at present; most likely Coolermaster 450w

FANS - Exisiting

CABLES - Existing

HARD DRIVES - 2x2TB WD Caviar Green 1x1.5TB WD Caviar Green

 

New Components To Be Purchased:

HD CAGE - COOLER MASTER STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 Device Module Hardisk Cage (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002) - $25.99 (Canada Computers)

USB STICK - Lexar JumpDrive FireFly 8GB USB Drive (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820191282) - $17.99 (BestBuy)

 

Other:

SATA Expansion Cards - None Needed at present I believe

 

Cost of New Components - $43.98

 

 

Build 2: I will expand to this build when I can afford the mainboard, RAM and CPU. I will continue to use the existing used case and add HDs as affordable/required.

Existing components:

CASE - Coolermaster Centurion 5 (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=21)

PSU - Unknown at present; most likely coolermaster 450w

FANS - Exisiting

CABLES - Existing

HARD DRIVES - 2x2TB WD Caviar Green 1x1.5TB WD Caviar Green

HD CAGE - COOLER MASTER STB-3T4-E3-GP 4-in-3 Device Module Hardisk Cage (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993002)

USB STICK - Lexar JumpDrive FireFly 8GB USB Drive (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820191282)

 

New Components:

MOBO - SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O Xeon X3400 / L3400 / Core i3 series (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211&Tpk=MBD-X8SIL-F-O) - $184.99

CPU - Intel Core i3-540 Clarkdale 3.06GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3540 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115221&Tpk=Intel%20i3%20540%20Clarkdale) - $104.99

RAM - RAM: Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Model KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040) - $39.99

 

Other:

SATA Expansion Cards - None Needed at present I believe

HARD DRIVES - As needed

 

Cost of New Components - $329.97

 

Questions about this build:

1. At what number of HDs do I need to purchase a SATA card?

 

 

Build 3: This is the current "goal" build. When I can afford the case and PSU, I will move all components over to this. Moving the HDs over.

Existing Components:

MOBO - SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O Xeon X3400 / L3400 / Core i3 series (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211&Tpk=MBD-X8SIL-F-O) - $184.99

CPU - Intel Core i3-540 Clarkdale 3.06GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3540 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115221&Tpk=Intel%20i3%20540%20Clarkdale) - $104.99

RAM - RAM: Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Model KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040) - $39.99

 

New Components:

CASE - NORCO RPC-4220 (4224 possibly) 4U Rackmount Server Chassis w/ 20 Hot-Swappable SATA/SAS 6G Drive Bays (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219033) - $349.99

PSU - CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 650W (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020) - $99.99

CABLES - Molex 79576-3007 Mini SAS / SATA Cable x 2 - Unknown where to get in Canada. Possible SurplusComputers import. - $12 (~$6 each)

CABLES - 1m 30AWG Internal Mini SAS 36pin (SFF-8087) Male to Mini SAS 36pin (SFF-8087) Male Cable x 4 - Unknown where to get in Canada. Possible monoprice import. - $28 (~$7 each)

SATA Expansion Card - Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 8-Port SAS/SATA Add-on Card (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358&Tpk=AOC-SASLP-MV8) - $119.99

SATA Expansion Card - SATA2 Serial ATA II PCI-Express RAID Controller Card (Silicon Image SIL3132) - Unknown where to get in Canada. Possible monoprice import. - $13

 

As Needed:

FANS - Nexus PWM Series D12SL-12PWM 120mm Case Fan x 3

FANS - ARCTIC COOLING ACF8 Pro PWM 80mm Case Fan

SATA Expansion Card - Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 8-Port SAS/SATA Add-on Card (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358&Tpk=AOC-SASLP-MV8) - $119.99

HARD DRIVES - As needed

 

Cost of New Components - $623

 

EDIT: Corrected stupidity on my part with incompatible products as pointed out below.

[PeterB]

I'm still confused about the SATA cards and cables.

 

I think that you're somewhat confused by mobo/processor compatibility, too.

 

MOBO - SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SEA-O LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182161)

CPU - Intel Core i3-550 Clarkdale 3.2GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3550 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115065)

 

 

I wonder what you plan to do with the 381 processor pins that are left over!

 

If you are building today, or in the near future, your best bet would be the Supermicro C7SIM-Q mobo with the i3-550 (or even 530 or 540, if still available).  If it's likely to happen further into the future, you would probably be better off going for an LGA 1155 solution with something like an i3-2100 and Supermicro X9SCM-F mobo.

[Johnm]

MOBO - SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SEA-O LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182161)

CPU - Intel Core i3-550 Clarkdale 3.2GHz LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3550 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115065)

 

are not compatible.

 

the board is a LGA 775

and the chip is LGA 1156

 

You need to switch one of the two and then verify the ram.

[Netbug]

Dammit. I'm so very bad at this stuff.

 

MB: SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O Xeon X3400 / L3400 / Core i3 series (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211&Tpk=MBD-X8SIL-F-O) - $184.99

CPU: Intel Core i3-540 Clarkdale 3.06GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3540 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115221&Tpk=Intel%20i3%20540%20Clarkdale) - $104.99

 

Those two?

[Johnm]

Dammit. I'm so very bad at this stuff.

 

MB: SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O Xeon X3400 / L3400 / Core i3 series (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182211&Tpk=MBD-X8SIL-F-O) - $184.99

CPU: Intel Core i3-540 Clarkdale 3.06GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3540 (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115221&Tpk=Intel%20i3%20540%20Clarkdale) - $104.99

 

Those two?

 

That's a nice combo.

you will need to change the RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040 will do just fine if you want 4 gigs.

 

 

i should point out. that just because your Case is a coolermaster, you do not have to buy a cooler master 4in3. you could buy any brand 5in3 or 4in3. as long as you have 3 5.25" slots, they should fit. some modding might be required to get the tabs out of the way.

 

[Netbug]

That's a nice combo.

you will need to change the RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040 will do just fine if you want 4 gigs.

 

Wonderful, thank you.

 

Any idea about my first question regarding the ASUS board and maximum SATA drives before needing to swap it out?

[Netbug]

i should point out. that just because your Case is a coolermaster, you do not have to buy a cooler master 4in3. you could buy any brand 5in3 or 4in3. as long as you have 3 5.25" slots, they should fit. some modding might be required to get the tabs out of the way.

 

Yeah, the other one I was looking at was a Rosewill (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132035). The CoolerMaster just happened to be in stock at a local retailer so I was gonna pick it up tonight.

[Johnm]

That's a nice combo.

you will need to change the RAM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040 will do just fine if you want 4 gigs.

 

Wonderful, thank you.

 

Any idea about my first question regarding the ASUS board and maximum SATA drives before needing to swap it out?

4 Sata.

you Could get more with PCI to Sata expansion cards. I would not waste your money if you are going to upgrade motherboards. put the money to the new board.

plus, as you start getting past 2 SATA drives on PCI, it starts getting slower.

[Netbug]

Ok. So 2 on the southbridge, 2 on the RAID controller (which I assume I just set to function as a regular port in BIOS).

 

And yes, my plan was to upgrade as soon as I reached on-board drive capacity.

 

Thanks so much for helping my small brain.

[Rajahal]

Re: Build 1 - I would go for a cheaper USB Flash Drive.  My favorite at the moment is the Verbatim Clip-It, and I never pay more than $10 for one.  Pretty much any size 2 GB or larger is fine, 8 GB is pretty big.  Also, by CoolerMaster 450W I assume you mean this one?  If you already have it, go ahead and use it, it will be fine for just 3 drives.  However, don't spend any money on it if you don't have it already.  Instead, either splurge on the Corsair 650W right away since you know you'll need it eventually, or buy a better quality cheap PSU such as the Corsair 430W (which will last you through Builds 1 and 2, but not 3).  The CoolerMaster 450W is only powerful enough to get you through Build 1, you would then have to replace it in Build 2.  See this thread for more detail on power supplies.

 

Re: Build 2 - The motherboard supports 6 SATA drives by itself.  You can also plug in your PCI SATA/IDE card from Build 1 and get another 2 drives in there for a total of 8 SATA drives, plus one or two IDE drives if you still want to use those.  I recommend against using IDE drives as they will use lots of power, generate lots of heat, and slow your whole system down.  Chances are you can replace any IDE drives you have with a single SATA drive.

 

Re: Build 3 - You'll need two of the SASLP cards if you want to fully populate a Norco 4220 or 4224 case.  Also, since you already have a 2 port PCI SATA card you can continue using that instead of purchasing the 2 port PCIe card.  If you use the PCI card for a single data drive and then use the second port for a cache drive, then you won't have any bottlenecks.  If you use the PCI card for your two smallest data drives you will have minimal bottlenecks, but nothing that is too big of a deal.  In day to day operation you wouldn't notice it.  You might notice a slight performance hit during parity checks and rebuilds from parity for as long as those drives are being used; hence, it is best to put your two smallest drives on that card.

 

Keep in mind that by the time you get to building Build 2 and Build 3 there may be newer, cheaper, and better parts on the market.  I do my best to keep my prototype builds thread updated, so check back there when you are ready to embark on the later stages of your unRAID journey and re-evaluate at that time.  Best of luck, and tally ho!

[Netbug]

Re: Build 1 - I would go for a cheaper USB Flash Drive.  My favorite at the moment is the Verbatim Clip-It, and I never pay more than $10 for one.  Pretty much any size 2 GB or larger is fine, 8 GB is pretty big.  Also, by CoolerMaster 450W I assume you mean this one?  If you already have it, go ahead and use it, it will be fine for just 3 drives.  However, don't spend any money on it if you don't have it already.  Instead, either splurge on the Corsair 650W right away since you know you'll need it eventually, or buy a better quality cheap PSU such as the Corsair 430W (which will last you through Builds 1 and 2, but not 3).  The CoolerMaster 450W is only powerful enough to get you through Build 1, you would then have to replace it in Build 2.  See this thread for more detail on power supplies.

 

Sweet. I found a 4GB Lexar JumpDrive FireFly for $9.99 at BestBuy. Gonna try to pick that up tonight. I'll check on the power supply, but I think it should be adequate for now. If I have to buy, as you suggest, I'll get what's needed for the later build with the Corsair 650.

 

Re: Build 2 - The motherboard supports 6 SATA drives by itself.  You can also plug in your PCI SATA/IDE card from Build 1 and get another 2 drives in there for a total of 8 SATA drives, plus one or two IDE drives if you still want to use those.  I recommend against using IDE drives as they will use lots of power, generate lots of heat, and slow your whole system down.  Chances are you can replace any IDE drives you have with a single SATA drive.

 

The card you refer to from Build 1, I'm pretty sure I wasn't going to get a card in build 1. Are you referring to the $119.99 or $13 one listed in Build 3? I should be able to go up to how many HDs on this board (SUPERMICRO MBD-X8SIL-F-O) before needing the card? If I'm understanding, it would be 6.

 

Re: Build 3 - You'll need two of the SASLP cards if you want to fully populate a Norco 4220 or 4224 case.  Also, since you already have a 2 port PCI SATA card you can continue using that instead of purchasing the 2 port PCIe card.  If you use the PCI card for a single data drive and then use the second port for a cache drive, then you won't have any bottlenecks.  If you use the PCI card for your two smallest data drives you will have minimal bottlenecks, but nothing that is too big of a deal.  In day to day operation you wouldn't notice it.  You might notice a slight performance hit during parity checks and rebuilds from parity for as long as those drives are being used; hence, it is best to put your two smallest drives on that card.

 

I'm interested in the cache drive, but this is confusing me at present. I seem to be having real trouble grasping the riser boards needed for this stuff for some reason. Probably having been out of the industry for 12 years or so. I'll cross this bridge when I come to it.

 

Keep in mind that by the time you get to building Build 2 and Build 3 there may be newer, cheaper, and better parts on the market.  I do my best to keep my prototype builds thread updated, so check back there when you are ready to embark on the later stages of your unRAID journey and re-evaluate at that time.  Best of luck, and tally ho!

 

Thanks very much! Looking forward to it.

[Rajahal]

Sorry, I misread your earlier posts.  I thought the Promise 20378 was a separate card, but I see now it is built into your motherboard.  You can disregard all of that stuff and just get the 2 port PCIe card when you are ready.

 

You shouldn't need any riser boards for any of these builds.  All of the SATA controller cards will plug directly into the motherboard's PCIe slots.

 

I do my best to explain the pros and cons of using a cache drive in this thread.  No real reason to worry about it yet, though, as you likely won't need to use one until Build 2 or 3 if at all.

[Netbug]

So I picked up the hard drive 3-4 cage as well as the USB drive (had to get 8GB, didn't have 4, may switch later) and picked up a 2TB WD Green drive.

 

Problem now is the 450W I had doesn't have SATA connectors. I've got a 350W... any idea if that will be enough for the time being?

[Rajahal]

Hard to know without seeing the full specs, but a 350W PSU will likely be fine for just a few drives.

 

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

[joshpond]

Ok. So 2 on the southbridge, 2 on the RAID controller (which I assume I just set to function as a regular port in BIOS).

 

Okay going back on my memory from a while ago, the 2 second RAID sata ports can be set up as individual IDE ports but you have to install something (maybe a driver for windows although I don't see how that applies for unRAID) before it would work. It is on the install CD from memory. If you google it you may find more about it. Try that if you are having problems getting the 2 ports to see 2 seperate drives.

 

Josh

[Netbug]

Ok. So 2 on the southbridge, 2 on the RAID controller (which I assume I just set to function as a regular port in BIOS).

 

Okay going back on my memory from a while ago, the 2 second RAID sata ports can be set up as individual IDE ports but you have to install something (maybe a driver for windows although I don't see how that applies for unRAID) before it would work. It is on the install CD from memory. If you google it you may find more about it. Try that if you are having problems getting the 2 ports to see 2 seperate drives.

 

Josh

 

Got it seeing the drive as IDE. Good call.