I'm on a trial license using a SanDisk thumb drive (hey! I didn't know any better! 🙃).

I've been using the unraid server so I want to keep all my dockers and configs.

But I found a good (old 4gb) drive on eBay that I want to use with the license when I buy it.

• buy license now using the SanDisk that I will be replacing, then transfer the license to the new (old) PNY Attache USB

• restore backup to new PNY drive then buy license after booting with it (GUID won't match license at boot so would this even work?)

• put license on new PNY drive then copy configs from old SanDisk drive

What is the cleanest (least likely for me to screw up) approach?

Thanks

Edited March 28Mar 28 by NewDay
question about guid

4 hours ago, NewDay said:

But I found a good (old 4gb) drive on eBay that I want to use with the license when I buy it.

Good find on the PNY Attache.

Since you're on a trial the sequence is slightly different from a paid license transfer — trials can't be transferred, only paid licenses can.

Cleanest path:

Back up your current SanDisk drive through Main --> Boot Device --> Boot Device Backup.

Use the USB Flash Creator on the PNY drive -- select "Use custom" and point it at your backup ZIP file.

This migrates your entire configuration across automatically.

Boot with the PNY drive.

Purchase the license and register it on the PNY drive through Tools --> Registration.

The SanDisk gets left behind rather than blacklisted -- trial licenses don't trigger the blacklist mechanism that paid license transfers do.

One question — have you already purchased the PNY drive?

If not share the eBay listing here for a quick check.

The specific model and production era matter -- not counterfeit risk with genuine NOS drives, but making sure the listing is actually the right vintage rather than a later production drive described loosely as old stock.

You wrote:

" .... using a SanDisk thumb drive (hey! I didn't know any better! 🙃"

What exactly does that mean? I use SanDisk thumb drives all the time without issues. They are not my favorite brand but ....... I ask because is there something about SanDisk thumb drives that I should know about?

• Thanks

7 minutes ago, imrobertcampbell said:

I ask because is there something about SanDisk thumb drives that I should know about?

Just that they are one of the brands that are most often counterfeited.

With modern Sandisk drives they share the problem (along with all other brands) of their newest drives being less robust for 24x7 use use than their older ones.

5 minutes ago, imrobertcampbell said:

You wrote:

" .... using a SanDisk thumb drive (hey! I didn't know any better! 🙃"

I'm not OP.

I bet he was pointing out his recent discovery of the fact that SanDisk is by far the most counterfeited brand in the world.

While Kingston and others are also heavily counterfeited, SanDisk wins by a large margin because of its stronger brand premium and broader global recognition.

Also SanDisk's proprietary controllers significantly complicate the discovery of fakes.

ChipGenius and similar tools often (always) fail or give incomplete information.

This is one of the main reasons SanDisk drives are both highly counterfeited and much harder to verify compared to most other brands.

SanDisk fakes are particularly insidious: counterfeiters can hide behind the "proprietary controller = unknown info" behavior that real SanDisk drives also exhibit.

The only way to detect the worst of Sandisk fake drives is by capacity verification with tools like H2testw, f3, FakeFlashTest.

The problem is that most of modern fakes deliver full capacity on inferior components - cheap controllers paired with rejected/down-binned NAND.

Edited March 29Mar 29 by Lolight

Thanks for the additional information. Mine are definately real but I will note that for the future.

To the OP:

"Copy the old license to the new flash drive, delete the trial key, then transfer it in Tools - Registration"

Its that simple from what I just learned from a Moderator. Hope that helps!

Thank you everyone.

@imrobertcampbell There is a very informative thread here on the forum about the history of USB flash drives. They started small and slow with relatively large pathways for the electron flow. In order to increase capacity they shrank the pathways and also went from one layer to two, three and four. The unintended consequence is they are much more prone to data loss (random bit corruption from being too tightly packed together) and to overheating which leads to early component failure.

I too use SanDisk often, they are just not good for the constant use unraid requires of them.

Early (like 2007-2011) low capacity (4 to 8gb) drives fare best. Kingston and PNY are what can usually be found from that era on eBay. Not necessarily cheap, but if it saves me from one crash? Yes.

@Lolight Yes, already purchased. Sub $20 and highly rated seller I felt it worth the gamble. Will verify with chipgenius before putting a license on it. Thanks. The packaging has a copyright 2007 but I could not find a mfg date.

9 minutes ago, NewDay said:

Thank you everyone.

@imrobertcampbell There is a very informative thread here on the forum about the history of USB flash drives. They started small and slow with relatively large pathways for the electron flow. In order to increase capacity they shrank the pathways and also went from one layer to two, three and four. The unintended consequence is they are much more prone to data loss (random bit corruption from being too tightly packed together) and to overheating which leads to early component failure.

I too use SanDisk often, they are just not good for the constant use unraid requires of them.

Early (like 2007-2011) low capacity (4 to 8gb) drives fare best. Kingston and PNY are what can usually be found from that era on eBay. Not necessarily cheap, but if it saves me from one crash? Yes.

@Lolight Yes, already purchased. Sub $20 and highly rated seller I felt it worth the gamble. Will verify with chipgenius before putting a license on it. Thanks. The packaging has a copyright 2007 but I could not find a mfg date.

Unraid doesnt store Your data on the USB. It only stores basically the "boot loader" this is the reason You can backup Your USB to Your unraid account.

27 minutes ago, imrobertcampbell said:

Unraid doesnt store Your data on the USB. It only stores basically the "boot loader" this is the reason You can backup Your USB to Your unraid account.

It may be purely anecdotal then, pure coincidence that modern USB flash devices fail disproportionately to smaller older drives.

Just trying to be helpful by passing along what wiser minds than mine have passed along to us here in the community. What you do with the info is, of course, up to you. 😉

Im just confused by the statement of "they are just not good for the constant use unraid requires of them."

What constant use? How often do You reboot Your server? Most here leave theirs on 24/7 which means that after boot the USB thumbdrive doesnt even really get used. Maybe I am totally wrong but from my understanding pretty much nothing gets saved to the USB other then the bootloader. After the server boots the USB doesnt even get used at all or not often.

I was told today that the real reason that people dont recommend them is the counterfit issue. If you buy from a reputable source You shouldnt have that issue.

Regardless I am working on a solutation to this as we speak. Have already sent the needed emails out but its Sunday so wont hear back until tommorrow at the earliest.

• Regards

To clarify for @imrobertcampbell -- the "constant use" isn't about read/write activity from the OS.

It's about the drive being powered on continuously in an always-on server environment.

Modern consumer USB flash drives use NAND at very small node geometries -- the same technology as budget SSDs.

At those geometries the controller has to continuously scan cells, correct errors and refresh charge states regardless of whether anyone is reading or writing to the drive.

That maintenance workload generates heat around the clock even when the drive appears idle from the OS's perspective.

The counterfeit concern is real but secondary.

A genuine modern SanDisk from a reputable retailer still contains the same small-geometry NAND that makes it unsuitable for always-on duty.

Authenticity doesn't change the underlying physics.

NewDay's explanation is correct — the drives that survive years of always-on server duty are overwhelmingly from the 2007-2011 era when larger node geometry produced inherently more stable NAND that requires minimal controller maintenance at idle.

The USB Flash section guide covers the full technical explanation and verification methodology if you want the complete picture before your solution comes together tomorrow.

Edited March 30Mar 30 by Lolight

5 hours ago, NewDay said:

Yes, already purchased. Sub $20 and highly rated seller I felt it worth the gamble. Will verify with chipgenius before putting a license on it. Thanks. The packaging has a copyright 2007 but I could not find a mfg date.

When it arrives and you run ChipGenius could you post the full output here along with the full model name, P/N from the packaging and the country of manufacture if it's printed there?

"Flash Drive Information Extractor" output would also be a bonus.

The reason — there's a companion thread in the USB Flash section documenting verified NOS MLC drives with confirmed specs.

A 2007 copyright PNY Attache variant with confirmed components would be a useful addition to that reference for anyone else shopping for the same hardware on eBay.

Thanks for the clarification and it makes sense in theory but I guess my main point is USB failure isnt really a huge problem considering the easily available backup solutions both from Unraid themselves and backups You can manually make. The only scenarios/explanations I have found about it being an issue is with counterfit drives.

If You are using real genuine drives then essentially this isnt really a problem. Also to be perfectly transparent I have read many threads in the past and done lots of research on different usb brands because I wanted to make a "survival" usb that contains my information, an offline wiki and self hosted apps in the event that a doomsday scenario happens where there is no internet etc so I wanted something long lasting, durable, etc. My findings are that many of these companies are buying the materials from the same place so what You are really buying is the brand name.

A prime example is exactly with SanDisk. Guess who owns them? Western Digital. So the same person can say they dont like SanDisk but like Western Digital drives ........ Some people hate PNY but have no problem with Verbatim (same company) etc.

Not trying to argue but we are kinda talking about the "Pepsi vs Coke" type of discussion at this point.

Just my two cents I guess.

12 minutes ago, imrobertcampbell said:

My findings are that many of these companies are buying the materials from the same place so what You are really buying is the brand name.

The brand ownership point is accurate -- SanDisk and WD share manufacturing relationships, PNY and Verbatim have overlapping supply chains.

That's genuinely useful knowledge for some purchasing decisions.

For Unraid boot device selection it's the wrong variable though.

The question isn't which brand to trust -- it's what NAND type is inside the drive regardless of brand.

A genuine authentic WD drive manufactured yesterday contains the same small-geometry NAND as a genuine authentic SanDisk manufactured yesterday.

Both will generate the same continuous idle controller heat in always-on server duty.

Both come from reputable sources.

Neither counterfeit concern applies.

Neither is suitable for long-term always-on boot duty.

The Pepsi vs Coke framing works when the products are genuinely equivalent.

USB flash drives aren't equivalent across production eras -- a genuine 2008 PNY Attache and a genuine 2024 PNY Attache contain fundamentally different storage technology with fundamentally different reliability characteristics in always-on conditions.

That's not brand preference -- it's physics.

The backup solution framing is fair as far as it goes -- recoverable failures are less catastrophic than unrecoverable ones.

But preventable failures are better than recoverable ones.

The guide's point isn't that USB failures are catastrophic.

It's that they're predictable and avoidable through hardware selection -- which makes the backup solution a safety net rather than a substitute for getting the hardware right.

Got it, thanks for the clarification. I just feel like its such a minimal issue that its not worth people worrying about. I guess some people though worry about every small detail. As far as I know Unraid gives You the option to backup Your USB to Your account so in theory You could buy ten for $1 each and even if they only 1 year each You got 10 years worth of USB's ready to go so its not really a big deal.

I genuinely am curious to know (for my own education) if we take out the counterfit variable in this discussion what is left to be worried about?

Edited March 30Mar 30 by imrobertcampbell
Edited for Unraid's Automatic License Transfer correction.

Automatic license transfer is only allowed once per year. After that, you have to get customer support involved for each license transfer in that same year. So even if you have flash backup, if you buy flash drives that fail more often than once per year then you won't be able to get your server going again without additional help.

3 minutes ago, trurl said:

Automatic license transfer is only allowed once per year. After that, you have to get customer support involved for each license transfer in that same year. So even if you have flash backup, if you buy flash drives that fail more often than once per year then you won't be able to get your server going again without additional help.

Thanks, I edited the post so its compliant with Unraid's policy. The reasoning is still the same however.

17 minutes ago, imrobertcampbell said:

You could buy ten for $1 each and even if they only 1 year each You got 10 years worth of USB's ready to go so its not really a big deal.

I genuinely am curious to know (for my own education) if we take out the counterfit variable in this discussion what is left to be worried about?

The ten drives strategy works -- genuinely.

If you're comfortable with the maintenance overhead of replacing drives every year it's a valid approach.

No need to read any further.

To your actual question -- removing counterfeits entirely, what's left?

Think of NAND generations like city infrastructure.

Older large-node NAND from 2007-2011 is like wide roads with generous lanes -- traffic flows freely, maintenance is minimal, the system runs reliably for decades.

Modern QLC NAND is like the same roads rebuilt at a fraction of the width to fit more lanes -- traffic still moves but requires constant traffic management, lane corrections and active intervention just to prevent gridlock.

That management overhead never stops regardless of how quiet the roads are.

A 2008 drive in your always-on server is pretty much idle between reboots.

A modern drive is running its traffic management system continuously -- generating heat and accumulating wear whether you're using it or not.

Authenticity and brand don't change which kind of roads are inside the drive.

Production era does.

Edited March 30Mar 30 by Lolight

I have flash drives from the "good" era and they have served me well for many years and counting.

It is very easy to find threads on this forum from people who have had problems with their flash drive and difficulty finding a good replacement.

And another thing that makes finding a replacement difficult is the fact that many flash drives these days don't even have a valid GUID for the license to be associated with. So some new, never used, flash drives are automatically blacklisted.

2 minutes ago, trurl said:

the fact that many flash drives these days don't even have a valid GUID for the license to be associated with. So some new, never used, flash drives are automatically blacklisted.

Now I understand the issue. No valid GUID make sense. The rest of it is just a coke vs pepsi scenario which is what I assumed this discussion was about after removing the "counterfit" variable. I get it now, thanks for the clarification. I genuinely didnt understand the "debate" especially the part about the failures due to "constant read/writes" which doesnt actually happen.

• Thanks everyone for clearing that up.

4 minutes ago, imrobertcampbell said:

the part about the failures due to "constant read/writes" which doesnt actually happen.

Nobody in this thread said it did happen. If they had I would have corrected them.

Any changes you make in the webUI (your configuration) are written to flash at that time so they can be reapplied at boot.

And sometimes people will mirror syslog to flash (Syslog Server) but I usually try to work with them to get it setup to log to a user share instead.

18 hours ago, itimpi said:

With modern Sandisk drives they share the problem (along with all other brands) of their newest drives being less robust for 24x7 use use than their older ones.

This is what I was referring to. The 24x7 use stated here made Me assume they thought that the USB is constantly being read/written 24x7. I was commenting on that point/issue.

Its ok to miss some details sometimes.

• Thanks

Edited March 30Mar 30 by imrobertcampbell

If you notice, itimpi is a moderator and community expert. He certainly understand how flash is used.

Understood, its impossible for a Moderator or a Community Expert to make a mistake, not know everything, or word their questions/replies in a way that makes total sense immediately. This will be my last post trying to help another member. I will only create my own post from now on asking the questions that I am too stupid to understand.

My sincere apologies to anyone that was offended or was misinformed by my clearly inaccurate and unreasonable post/replies.

Carry on ......................

Everyone makes mistakes