[POLL] Should Lime Technology make unRAID CentOS 64-Bit Edition?

[grumpybutfun]

I think we are talking about a few different things here and some are unable to separate / image the various concepts / ideas being discussed.

 

unRAID 5.0 Appliance

 

USB / Small Footprint

 

Linux Distro - Slackware

 

ESXi / KVM / Xen Guest Support - unRAID in a VM on ESXi, KVM or Xen.

 

To run unRAID in a VM - Requires one of the following... ESXi, XenServer, Xen or KVM Host running on a Linux Distro.

 

Requires specific Hardware (Motherboard, CPU, BIOs, Driver Support, etc.) that is capable of doing PCI Passthrough for your SATA / RAID / SAS Controller(s).

 

unRAID 6.0 Appliance

 

USB / Small Footprint

 

Linux Distro - Slackware

 

Type 1 Hypervisor Host / Guest support

 

ESXi / KVM / Xen Guest Support - unRAID in a VM on ESXi, KVM or Xen.

 

To run unRAID in a VM - Requires one of the following... ESXi, XenServer, Xen or KVM Host running on a Linux Distro.

 

Requires specific Hardware (Motherboard, CPU, BIOs, Driver Support, etc.) that is capable of doing PCI Passthrough for your SATA / RAID / SAS Controller(s).

 

KVM / Xen Host (not sure if it's KVM / Xen or Both yet) Support

 

Since you no longer need to pass the SATA / RAID / SAS Controller it does not require specific Hardware for PCI Passthrough.

 

With Type 1 Hypervisor Support built in, you are no longer a required to run ESXi, XenServer, Xen or KVM if you want VMs that run / preform faster than the Type 2 Virtualbox Plugin.

 

If you want to use plugins, fine.

 

If you do no want plugins or want to run plugins and have the "freedom" to run other apps where a plugin doesn't exist, create VMs in your OS of choice (Windows / Linux / OSX / Solaris / Etc.)  and run whatever Applications you want

 

unRAID Distro

 

Totally SEPARATE Product / Name / Version / Etc.

 

NOT an Appliance

 

Linux Distro - Not Slackware and not CentOS (see other threads as to why).

 

Would be created / supported / maintained by Lime Technology

 

My personal thoughts on a unRAID Distro...

 

I do not think this will ever see the light of day.

 

Look at any Linux Distro that has ever been created. There is no way in hell can Tom support / maintain this by himself. There are thousand moving parts and whatever Linux Distro Tom would usually have a releases ever 6 months or to a year. Linux Distros needs constant attention, updates, maintenance or it gets old quick and the users would become very frustrated that they can't install / do X, Y or Z because packages / libraries / Linux Kernel / etc. haven't been updated.

 

Every Linux Distro has it's own forum / website / community and an unRAID Distro would require one. If not, confusion between the unRAID Slackware Appliance and unRAID in <Insert Different Linux Distro than Slackware> would drive us all insane. You would have new users / Linux Noobs searching the forums and getting all kinds of answers for either Slackware or <Insert Different Linux Distro than Slackware> and be copying / pasting / trying things that do not work or could break their system.

 

My advice if you want to use a Linux Distro other than Slackware...

 

Install your Linux Distro of choice and use RAID 5 or 6, ZFS, etc. and even use your Filesystem of choice. The are TONS of GUIs and Tools than unRAID has (you have countless Developers, Companies, etc. creating / improving / contributing towards them as compared to one guy who has a family, full time job, etc.) and it's just as reliable.

[binhex]

i think (and i might be wrong here) but the main push when this poll was done was towards a full fat unraid distro, i now see from recent developments that its now going down the route of option 2, namely "unRAID 6.0 Appliance" as grumpy just posted. i for one think this is a good move and a satisfies both power users wanting to run vm's and people who prefer a unraid appliance feel, so i think its a win-win :-).

[unTER]

I think we are talking about a few different things here and some are unable to separate / image the various concepts / ideas being discussed.

 

unRAID 5.0 Appliance

 

USB / Small Footprint

 

Linux Distro - Slackware

 

ESXi / KVM / Xen Guest Support - unRAID in a VM on ESXi, KVM or Xen.

 

To run unRAID in a VM - Requires one of the following... ESXi, XenServer, Xen or KVM Host running on a Linux Distro.

 

Requires specific Hardware (Motherboard, CPU, BIOs, Driver Support, etc.) that is capable of doing PCI Passthrough for your SATA / RAID / SAS Controller(s).

 

unRAID 6.0 Appliance

 

USB / Small Footprint

 

Linux Distro - Slackware

 

Type 1 Hypervisor Host / Guest support

 

ESXi / KVM / Xen Guest Support - unRAID in a VM on ESXi, KVM or Xen.

 

To run unRAID in a VM - Requires one of the following... ESXi, XenServer, Xen or KVM Host running on a Linux Distro.

 

Requires specific Hardware (Motherboard, CPU, BIOs, Driver Support, etc.) that is capable of doing PCI Passthrough for your SATA / RAID / SAS Controller(s).

 

KVM / Xen Host (not sure if it's KVM / Xen or Both yet) Support

 

Since you no longer need to pass the SATA / RAID / SAS Controller it does not require specific Hardware for PCI Passthrough.

 

With Type 1 Hypervisor Support built in, you are no longer a required to run ESXi, XenServer, Xen or KVM if you want VMs that run / preform faster than the Type 2 Virtualbox Plugin.

 

If you want to use plugins, fine.

 

If you do no want plugins or want to run plugins and have the "freedom" to run other apps where a plugin doesn't exist, create VMs in your OS of choice (Windows / Linux / OSX / Solaris / Etc.)  and run whatever Applications you want

 

unRAID Distro

 

Totally SEPARATE Product / Name / Version / Etc.

 

NOT an Appliance

 

Linux Distro - Not Slackware and not CentOS (see other threads as to why).

 

Would be created / supported / maintained by Lime Technology

 

My personal thoughts on a unRAID Distro...

 

I do not think this will ever see the light of day.

 

Look at any Linux Distro that has ever been created. There is no way in hell can Tom support / maintain this by himself. There are thousand moving parts and whatever Linux Distro Tom would usually have a releases ever 6 months or to a year. Linux Distros needs constant attention, updates, maintenance or it gets old quick and the users would become very frustrated that they can't install / do X, Y or Z because packages / libraries / Linux Kernel / etc. haven't been updated.

 

Every Linux Distro has it's own forum / website / community and an unRAID Distro would require one. If not, confusion between the unRAID Slackware Appliance and unRAID in <Insert Different Linux Distro than Slackware> would drive us all insane. You would have new users / Linux Noobs searching the forums and getting all kinds of answers for either Slackware or <Insert Different Linux Distro than Slackware> and be copying / pasting / trying things that do not work or could break their system.

 

My advice if you want to use a Linux Distro other than Slackware...

 

Install your Linux Distro of choice and use RAID 5 or 6, ZFS, etc. and even use your Filesystem of choice. The are more / "better" GUIs and Tools than unRAID could ever dream of (you have countless Developers, Companies, etc. creating / improving / contributing towards them as compared to one guy who has a family, full time job, etc.) and it's just as reliable.

This helps a lot. Thank you.

 

In the example of unRAID KVM / Xen Host,

[*]Would unRAID still be running from a USB?

[*]Would you then use a drive or maybe RAID drives for your datastore outside of unRAID disk array?

[*]Would a cache disk be useful or a waste of a disk if you are utilizing VMs to run your apps/plugins?

[grumpybutfun]

Would unRAID still be running from a USB?

 

Yes.

 

Would you then use a drive or maybe RAID drives for your datastore outside of unRAID disk array?

 

You would either unRAID (RAID) or the cache drive.

 

Would a cache disk be useful or a waste of a disk if you are utilizing VMs to run your apps/plugins?

 

A cache drive is going to be quicker running VMs from there than unRAID (RAID).

[SamHill]

I'm voting maybe only because I wouldn't intend to use CentOS but if this opens up possible development to other distros I would highly support it.

 

Which Linux Distro did you prefer?

 

I'm not a huge Linux guy, and I know your not the biggest fan, but I like Linux Mint. Anyway you go will be great though.

[Ashe]

Unfortunately all of this will remain talk and ideas, as good as it is and as much as I wish it would happen, until tom eventually says yay or nay it is going nowhere

 

Even over at the flex raid forums (ok it's running on windows primarily as well as Linux), there are unRAID users jumping ship and paying $100 because it offers what is being discussed here

 

And the business owner is extremely active on a lot of threads unlike here

 

This thread and unRAID is becoming frustrating as it's a product people want., after you have used unRAID for a while and with the plugin and webgui fiasco, it is required sooner rather than later (granted, for some not all)

[ironicbadger]

Tom has stated publicly that 'unraid as a package' is a separate project. To me, that indicates it will happen just that it's not the priority right this second.

[grumpybutfun]

Unfortunately all of this will remain talk and ideas, as good as it is and as much as I wish it would happen, until tom eventually says yay or nay it is going nowhere.

 

Like I said earlier...

 

Lime Technology could make an unRAID Distro but I think the Power Users would quickly become frustrated with it due to the fact that Tom (one person who has a 6 day a week job) would have a hard time keeping it up to date.

 

Even over at the flex raid forums (ok it's running on windows primarily as well as Linux), there are unRAID users jumping ship and paying $100 because it offers what is being discussed here

 

That isn't the only place either. You see it being discussed / threads on the various other NAS solutions, plex, openelec, xbmc, etc. forums too.

 

And the business owner is extremely active on a lot of threads unlike here

 

To Tom's credit he didn't release 5.0 that long ago and is very close to releasing a beta version of unRAID 6.0 (64-Bit and either KVM, Xen or both enabled).

 

According to Tom, he said the first release was due either Jan 18 / 19th. He missed both dates and no word from him as to why or what the new ETA is.

 

Some will argue that we are lucky he is even developing / making unRAID 6.0 and whether he wants to communicates with us or not... is not something we should expect / entitled too.

 

I would give you all the business reasons as to why I believe that is bad practice to follow but I most people know why this is. For the ones who don't, they will start slamming me, you and anyone else again and ruin this thread too. To a select few, people never leave unRAID due to poor (I'd say worse than poor) communication / development cycles (this has greatly improved). It is a lie / myth / never happens even though I can provide several long threads from current / former unRAID users on a bunch of various forums. The one you talked about doesn't exist / isn't possible to them either.

 

This thread and unRAID is becoming frustrating as it's a product people want., after you have used unRAID for a while and with the plugin and webgui fiasco, it is required sooner rather than later (granted, for some not all)

 

Some will agree and some won't. Who the majority is... I don't know. Whether or not Lime Technology wants to go after one / the other or both... I don't know either.

[grumpybutfun]

Tom has stated publicly that 'unraid as a package' is a separate project. To me, that indicates it will happen just that it's not the priority right this second.

 

If he does that... I think he is committing suicide.

 

unRAID (The RAID Technology) has never been questioned. It works / stable / reliable / trustworthy and if he does that... I PROMISE you that his RAID Technology will quickly earn a bad reputation / tarnished / questioned / said to be unreliable / etc.

 

He dumps an unRAID package that people install...

 

1. Because it is a Commercialized Proprietary RAID Technology it will require a special Linux Kernel, Headers and certain versions of apps / binaries to function.

 

2. It requires specific things to be in specific places and run specific commands. There are TONS of Linux Distros and it's very unlikely that you will find one that is set up / remain that way for long.

 

3. User updates their system via package manager... I bet you 80% of the time they just screwed up unRAID from working / booting / etc. and quite possibly just had grub automatically do an update but wrote it the wrong drive (an unRAID one) and just lost some / all of their data.

 

4. On the Ubuntu Forum alone, of the 100+ grub threads on there... The latest one is up to 97 pages. 70% of the unRAID users have no idea what I am talking about much less read 97 pages in a thread and be able to fix it. 

 

5. Even though it wasn't Tom's fault... Do you think those users are going to go on XBMC, Plex, AVSForums, etc. and blame themselves or do you think they will blame unRAID / Lime Technology and say it screwed up their system / deleted their data?

 

6. How many "I have unRAID installed on <Insert Distro>" threads in the various Linux Distro Forums will those users need to see / read / try to help (which I doubt most won't be able to because of their special Linux Kernel and a commercialized proprietary RAID Technology) before they get sick of seeing it and think unRAID is crap?

 

7. FreeNAS, NAS4Free, Napp-it, Drobo, Proxmox, Openfiler, Open Media Vault, Nexerta, etc. do not provide a package that you just install into any Linux / BSD / Solaris Distro for good reasons and many are the ones I listed above.

 

The Main Reason this will never happen..

 

Lime Technology will be forced to make unRAID open sourced (bye bye revenue stream). I can assure you the Ubuntu, Arch, CentOS, Mint, Debian, etc. Community will raise Holy Hell and File Complaints with FSF / FOSS / etc. that he is distributing a binary package that he charges for in their Linux Distro without the source code provided.

[Unqualified Spectator]

Even over at the flex raid forums (ok it's running on windows primarily as well as Linux), there are unRAID users jumping ship and paying $100 because it offers what is being discussed here

 

All I ever needed to know about Flexraid I got from their forum pages. There's no inducement under the sun that would make me go that way. From what I read, his stuff ain't working that great, but it could be that most of his pain is suffered via Windows and the current Vista/7/8/WHS 2011/WHS 2012 fiasco - looks like his moderators do lots of damage control and they purge and archive the forums often - it makes me think that there's more trouble in paradise there that is let on. He does fix issues but seems more interested in forking his own project (now "TRaid" or something like that) and splintering his base from what I've read and while there are a handful of community supporters assisting the newcomers to Flex, it doesn't seem to be as close-knit a community. I get the appeal of running under Windows, but other than that, I get the distinct feeling that unRaid doesn't suffer as much as Flex. Yes, there are defectors, but if they want to run a more "raid-like" system - more power to them - they wouldn't care for unRaid anyway - too tame for them. As for me - I LIKE STABLE.

 

Grumpy made the most damning observation - If an unRaid Package was born, yes, the FSF and FOSS would have the various communities hold hands and sing sad songs about the opportunist Tom and the evil unRaid empire. Nevermind that you can run it as long as you like as Basic...way more than the 14 day trial in Flex.

 

Darn you Grumpy - stomping on my dream like that...heh - I may need a beer to get over it.  As much as I hate the idea of having to run a full blown virtualized server, I might have to go that way. It just seems to detract from the things that initially drew me to unRaid - it didn't need special hardware and was approachable by the masses. And it still is, it just doesn't customize easily and doesn't tolerate ill-behaved apps in it's workspace.

 

I don't have a solution - I just know that unRaid is a rare product that does something very technical and makes it easy. I certainly wish Tom the best of luck whichever way he goes. Perhaps he has a plan to overcome the plugin management, customization issues and the kernal constraints when he goes to 64 bit...I can afford to wait and see.

[lionelhutz]

Unfortunately all of this will remain talk and ideas, as good as it is and as much as I wish it would happen, until tom eventually says yay or nay it is going nowhere

 

Well, when people constantly rant about how it needs to be done and write like they're in contact with LimeTech and it's being worked on then other people start to believe it's coming at any moment....

 

Running a poll where the "want it's" come to vote doesn't really mean anything. There are quite a few unRAID users who never install any plugins or anything else and just use their servers. They only come to the forum to ask a question if they have an issue. So, why would anyone expect those people to come to the forum to vote on what they wanted for the future?

 

I really doubt you'll ever see a package to install on a distribution. The company is just too small to support a distribution. You'll need to run VM's on unRAID 6. Some days you just don't get what you want.

 

[Ashe]

Tom has stated publicly that 'unraid as a package' is a separate project. To me, that indicates it will happen just that it's not the priority right this second.

 

Fully support what you are doing ironic, and really wish for it to become a reality but i see a conflict of interest from Tom and the beta release of unRAID 6.0 x64 will be deemed the LimeTech solution for all.

 

Even over at the flex raid forums (ok it's running on windows primarily as well as Linux), there are unRAID users jumping ship and paying $100 because it offers what is being discussed here

 

All I ever needed to know about Flexraid I got from their forum pages. There's no inducement under the sun that would make me go that way. From what I read, his stuff ain't working that great, but it could be that most of his pain is suffered via Windows and the current Vista/7/8/WHS 2011/WHS 2012 fiasco - looks like his moderators do lots of damage control and they purge and archive the forums often - it makes me think that there's more trouble in paradise there that is let on. He does fix issues but seems more interested in forking his own project (now "TRaid" or something like that) and splintering his base from what I've read and while there are a handful of community supporters assisting the newcomers to Flex, it doesn't seem to be as close-knit a community. I get the appeal of running under Windows, but other than that, I get the distinct feeling that unRaid doesn't suffer as much as Flex. Yes, there are defectors, but if they want to run a more "raid-like" system - more power to them - they wouldn't care for unRaid anyway - too tame for them. As for me - I LIKE STABLE.

 

From browsing their forum pages for the last few days i also got that impression. However my post was not a recommendation to use FlexRaid, while i like the ability of FlexRaid i would be apprehensive of moving to it,  just a note that other products are progressing and people are attracted to whats being offered.

 

Unfortunately all of this will remain talk and ideas, as good as it is and as much as I wish it would happen, until tom eventually says yay or nay it is going nowhere

 

I really doubt you'll ever see a package to install on a distribution. The company is just too small to support a distribution. You'll need to run VM's on unRAID 6. Some days you just don't get what you want.

 

 

i think is where this road will end.

[butlerpeter]

Now that the beta of unRAID 6 is available, I had a go at trying my Arch install using the 64bit emhttp.

 

Worked like a charm - up to the same state as my previous attempts. Array running, shares being available locally and over (independently controlled samba).

 

If only, as mentioned before, the commands to start/stop samba etc were configurable. Add to that a configurable setting for the path to the unraid config files (defaults to /boot/config - in Arch I mount the flash drive as /flash and create /boot/config as a symlink to /flash/config).

 

If those few things were in place then I think it would be possible to get a nicely integrated system together.