Lian Li PC-D8000 Modular Cube Case

[danioj]

Hi All,

 

Just some discussion ... I just watched the following review of the Lian Li PC-D8000. One thought from me - how awesome is this case! 20 HDD's!!!!!

 

 

I found myself thinking about having 2 of them filled with disks. 1 main and 1 backup! No need to buy an Antec 1200 and fill it with 5in3's etc.

 

/** Side Thought

 

Then I thought about the possibility of running 2 protected arrays inside one Unraid install (I know this is not a feature of Unraid, but what if it was). Basically having my backup in the same machine. Not a backup to ensure against physical or natural disaster but I'm limited to having even 2 machines side by side anyway!

 

End of Side Thought **/

 

Anyway, back to the case. Has anyone used one of these? Not sure how two PSU's would work together or if it would need a special mother board - this is sort of getting out of my league! Fun Though!

[garycase]

The D-8000 is indeed an awesome case ... makes a VERY nice build (I've used it for one build for a friend).

 

As for putting you main AND backup servers in the same case ...  :)  ... I suppose you could do it with this case, but if you did I'd use 2 power supplies and 2 ITX motherboards, which you could, with a bit of modding, easily mount in this case along with a ton of hard drives      With modern high-capacity drives, 10 drives per system is probably plenty, so you could actually do that without much problem in this case !!

 

Note that Lian-Li also has a similar case that's designed to hold 2 motherboards -- one full size ATX and one ITX.  But the D-666 costs nearly twice what a D-8000 costs, so if I was going to do something like that, I'd just use a D-8000 and mod the motherboard tray to hold a pair of ITX motherboards.    It already supports 2 power supplies, so that's really all you have to do.

 

 

[danioj]

Hmm, you have got me thinking.

 

I've just started reading about running Unraid in a virtualised environment as a guest. I am thinking:

 

- 2 x Unraid Guests running on Esxi (on a SSD internally mounted)

- Box running a nice powerful processor, plenty or RAM, a couple of controller cards (1 for each Unraid Guest)

- 2 x Parity Drives inside 2 of the 3 5 1/2 " drive bays

- 1 x Cache Drives inside the last of the 3 5 1/2 " drive bays (Figure I don't need a Cache Drive for Backup Guest)

- 10 disks for each Unraid Guest Array on each side of the HDD cage in the case

 

Would be nice to align this with the release of the new 8TB shingle drives (At least for the Array if not Cache and Parity). Result would be a Fully backed up 80TB Protected Array in one box.

 

1 Guest for Backup 1 Guest for Main!

 

Thoughts:

 

- Don't think I would need two PSU's in this installation. Unless I could somehow do something clever - which I can't think of one yet.

- I guess I am going to have to have a real look at issues with Virtualisation too. From what I am reading you can't passthrough onboard SATA ports on a motherboard through to Esxi. Meaning I think all my SATA ports would have to be on dedicated Controllers. Unless something has changed.

[WeeboTech]

As cool as it is to build a monster unRAID with primary and backup, I would say don't.

If there was an emergency, think of how you would transport this.

Been there done that and I can tell you, having your backup somewhere else or even a backup on a Micro server of your most important files could help you in the heat of the moment.

[danioj]

I understand the apprehension. What I am referring to here is the back-up of my media library. I have my precious items (photo's, documents etc) on a usb drive and in the cloud and off site @ work.

 

If the worst was to happen and I had to leave my home "right now" I would not be stopping to unplug and take with me my media library whether it be a big box on wheels or a 4 bay SFF box. Essentially I have near 10TB of media anyway so something remotley close to SFF would not be that easy to transport if it was a case of "get out now".

 

Id love a portable scalable solution to back-up my ever expanding media collection but it is not feasible imho. Id get a 4 bay portable (ish) box today and then have to replace it as soon as I went past its capacity to store as much as my production server. So the back-up really needs to be as scalable as the production box i think - which pretty much means duplicate of sorts (i think anyway) and as soon as you start doing that you limit its portability.

 

Maybe the all in one box is a mistake, but the project has only just begun so to speak!

[garycase]

One thing you do NOT want to do is have both your primary and backup servers running from the same power supply and the same CPU as virtual machines.    That would mean a hardware failure on that system could destroy BOTH your primary and backup servers at the same time 

 

Same is somewhat true of putting two machines in the same box ... but if they're completely isolated except for the physical encasing (i.e. separate power supplies; separate motherboards; etc.) it's far less dangerous than having them both just VMs on the same system.

 

However -- I agree with WeeboTech r.e. the ability to pick up and go with your important data => not at all likely to happen with that monster case.    But a small ITX case with 5-6 drives can easily be carried out ... and with modern drive capacities you could have 30TB (6TB drives) or 40TB (8TB drives) of capacity in that little case.

I'm a big fan of the Lian-Li PC-Q25B for this;  but for really easy transportability you might want to look at the BitFenix cases [e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811345016 ]

 

[WeeboTech]

I understand the apprehension. What I am referring to here is the back-up of my media library. I have my precious items (photo's, documents etc) on a usb drive and in the cloud and off site @ work.

 

If the worst was to happen and I had to leave my home "right now" I would not be stopping to unplug and take with me my media library whether it be a big box on wheels or a 4 bay SFF box. Essentially I have near 10TB of media anyway so something remotley close to SFF would not be that easy to transport if it was a case of "get out now".

 

Id love a portable scalable solution to back-up my ever expanding media collection but it is not feasible imho. Id get a 4 bay portable (ish) box today and then have to replace it as soon as I went past its capacity to store as much as my production server. So the back-up really needs to be as scalable as the production box i think - which pretty much means duplicate of sorts (i think anyway) and as soon as you start doing that you limit its portability.

 

Maybe the all in one box is a mistake, but the project has only just begun so to speak!

 

 

As long as you separate what's important.  I have a larger tower and smaller HP Microservers that are backups.

As garycase mentions, two machines (virtual) on the same board/psu one backing up the other isn't going to serve you best in the future.

 

 

Two separate hardware setups (motherboard/psu/os) that you synchronize on some interval can work. Be it in one box or two. The issue with having it all in one box is if you work on one machine the other will likely be down.  So the whole primary/secondary(backup) is kinda diminished. When your working on your primary, your secondary(backup) may not be able to function.

 

 

Ever lift a server that is 20 drives? That's some heavy metal!

[danioj]

Ah, of course you guys are right. No escaping logic.

 

I like those small cases that garaycase suggested. 5 (including one in the 5 1/2" bay) 8TB drives in there + Parity (6 Drives) is way enough for a backup server. I guess by the time I go beyond the need for 40TB of backup they will have released a higher capacity drive for a similar price which I can then buy and use the 8TB drives in my primary box to increase storage.

 

I stumbled on this thread this morning: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=34096.45

 

If I upgrade my existing setup to that Fractal Design case over my Antec P193 (which I really don't like anymore) that gives me 12TB existing + 9 drive bays for expansion! Then wait for some community experience with the new 8TB shingle drives and throw them into the smaller case that garaycase suggested - Plenty.

 

I think I got carried away with building a new uber rig without really thinking about it. I'm a 34 year old ATC Project Manager but I am a geek at heart. Sort of would have been cool though!

[WeeboTech]

I had always wanted to build a large server case with two motherboards.

one for my linux workstation, one for my windows workstation.

Eventually I realized if I was working on one, I needed the other for reading technical documents or downloading drivers.

Eventually I virtualized windows under vmware within the linux workstation and built an unRAID server.

 

So I understand the desire to consolidate and contain, but I've also learned on the maintenance patterns.

Even now I have 1 main larger server in the Fractal Design R4 Case and a mini unraid ESX setup on the HP Micro servers.

All the workstations are laptops or virtual environments with all data on the Servers.

 

I like the Fractal Design R4. It's quiet and easy to work on. However if I had the room I would go with a small tower with allot of front bays and get the trayless SATA units.  It really beats having to open an machine and fiddle with wires.

 

I'm still debating on migrating to the Lime-Technology D-316M Server case.

http://lime-technology.com/d-316m-server-case/

 

Couple that with a supermicro X10SL7-F and you have a complete server all on the motherboard.

[danioj]

I like the Fractal Design R4. It's quiet and easy to work on. However if I had the room I would go with a small tower with allot of front bays and get the trayless SATA units.  It really beats having to open an machine and fiddle with wires.

 

Yeah, I think I like the R5 even better TBH. An upgrade to the R4 imho. http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_1055&products_id=29881&zenid=8a4632790da6d41db7f1ef6f70cd405a

 

Opening the case and fiddling has never bothered me. It is my hobby really so I kind of like having to tinker every now and then.

 

I'm still debating on migrating to the Lime-Technology D-316M Server case.

http://lime-technology.com/d-316m-server-case/

 

Couple that with a supermicro X10SL7-F and you have a complete server all on the motherboard.

 

Don't tease me  ! I'd love a little rack for the home, but I doubt I can justify the cost so Rackmounts are a no for me!

 

I'm in frustration zone at the moment. I am researching a Mini-ITX setup that garycase suggested and found a sweet ASRock board to use (looking for one with ECC Memory too) and found this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157466 Sweet board - but as usual Australian suppliers don't have what I want and Newegg won't ship this item to Australia! Everytime I find what I want there are supply issues. Sigh.

[WeeboTech]

I wasn't planning to go rack mount with that lime-tech case. It was going to sit next to the receiver under the TV within the TV stand.

it would probably fit better since it looks goofy having the tower case off to the side of the TV. My only concern is noise. The Fractal Case is quiet.

[garycase]

The Fractal cases are indeed VERY nice -- and exceptionally quiet.  I've used the R4 and the Define Mini for several builds ... both are very nice.    The R5 does indeed look like an even nicer choice ... next time I need a full ATX case I suspect that's what I'll use.

 

The AsRock board you noted would indeed be a GREAT board for a mini-ITX system.    In fact, I'd already decided on that board plus a Xeon E3-1276v3 for my next ITX build (probably this coming spring after I get back from a trip to New Zealand/Australia we're doing in Feb).

 

[danioj]

Fancy bringing one of those boards to Melbourne with you?

[danioj]

Woohoo, found one!!

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ASRock-E3C224D2I-Server-Motherboard-Intel-C224-Chipset-Socket-H3-LGA1150-Mini-IT-/161497958089?pt=AU_software&hash=item259a0746c9

 

Might have to just buy 2! :-)

[garycase]

Fancy bringing one of those boards to Melbourne with you?

 

Sorry, but we have a very limited luggage allowance on the trip we're taking 

... but if you really can't find it, send me a PM in late Jan and I'll see what we can arrange.

 

Woohoo, found one!!

 

Note that the board you found is the previous version of that board (a C224-based board, whereas the new one is a C226 board).    Still very nice ... and no appreciable difference (2 of the SATA ports are SATA-2, whereas on the C226 board they're all SATA-3).    But I suspect that supplier (Kogan) will have the C226 version soon, so you may want to ask about it.

 

 

[danioj]

Note that the board you found is the previous version of that board (a C224-based board, whereas the new one is a C226 board).    Still very nice ... and no appreciable difference (2 of the SATA ports are SATA-2, whereas on the C226 board they're all SATA-3).    But I suspect that supplier (Kogan) will have the C226 version soon, so you may want to ask about it.

 

Good catch, thanks. I got far too excited far too quickly! LOL!

 

I've just emailed them!

[garycase]

A search on their web site shows they do NOT have it yet ... but it's pretty likely they'll have it in the not-too-distant future.

 

Note that there's very little appreciable difference between the boards -- the 2 SATA-2 ports wouldn't matter as long as you don't connect SSDs to them;  and the two extra USB3 ports on the C226 board probably won't be used.    The C226 supports a few more advanced technologies (see the Intel ARK site for a detailed comparison); but both support VT-d, which is the key thing you'd want for virtualization.

 

Bottom line:  Definitely get the C226 version if you can; but I doubt you'd have even noticed the difference if I hadn't pointed it out 

 

[Esse]

Hi guys, jumping in here!

I am looking at both that Lian-Li case and the Asrock motherboard for two separate builds.

Beside all the SATA slots on that mobo, the sweetest thing is if I may say so the teaming function of the two Intel NIC:s.

Connect that to a cheap HP switch with teaming/trunking function, and you have a 2 Gbit connection to the server.

 

Regarding the Lian-Li case,does anyone know of a good ATX mobo with a lot of SATA slots and dual NIC:s with teaming function?

If you build a monster like this, who makes the fastest add on controller cards these days?

I doubt I can find a mobo with 20 SATA ports on it 

 

Cheers

 

/E

[garycase]

I doubt I can find a mobo with 20 SATA ports on it 

 

Here's one with 22 SATA-3 ports 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/Z87%20Extreme11ac/index.asp?cat=

 

But I'd be more inclined to go with this SuperMicro with 14 ports and add an 8-port controller board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182821

 

[danioj]

A search on their web site shows they do NOT have it yet ... but it's pretty likely they'll have it in the not-too-distant future.

 

Note that there's very little appreciable difference between the boards -- the 2 SATA-2 ports wouldn't matter as long as you don't connect SSDs to them;  and the two extra USB3 ports on the C226 board probably won't be used.    The C226 supports a few more advanced technologies (see the Intel ARK site for a detailed comparison); but both support VT-d, which is the key thing you'd want for virtualization.

 

Bottom line:  Definitely get the C226 version if you can; but I doubt you'd have even noticed the difference if I hadn't pointed it out 

 

I checked with my "local" supplier with no luck. Sometimes trying to get stuff in Australia is annoying!!!

 

RE: ASRock Motherboard, Mini ITX DDR3 1600 LGA 1150 E3C226D2I

 

Email 1

 

Hi Daniel,

 

Unfortunately at this stage the distributer does not carry this board currently in stock, so we haven’t been able to source this. I would recommend contacting an enterprise or server specialist as they will likely be able to source a motherboard like this for you.

 

Email 2

 

Hi Daniel,

 

We don’t have any affiliates at the moment who we can specifically recommend I’m afraid!

 

Regards,

[garycase]

I'm not surprised at that reply ... they're not likely to even know when their supplier will have the newer version ... but it's almost a certainty that they WILL at some point in the probably-not-too-distant future.

 

As I noted above, the C224 version would, in fact, be just fine.    The performance would be virtually identical.  But I understand that "knowing" that there's a slightly better C226 version tends to make one want that one !!

 

If you need to build a system now, I'd just use the C224 board.    If you aren't in a hurry, I'd wait a couple months and check again to see if kogan has the C226 then.

 

[Esse]

I doubt I can find a mobo with 20 SATA ports on it 

 

Here's one with 22 SATA-3 ports 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/Z87%20Extreme11ac/index.asp?cat=

 

But I'd be more inclined to go with this SuperMicro with 14 ports and add an 8-port controller board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182821

 

Thank you!

 

/E

[WeeboTech]

I can add that I'm very happy with my X10SL7.

That asrock board looks sweet though!

[garycase]

As I noted above, I'd be more inclined to go with the X10SL7 and add an 8-port controller, just to stay with SuperMicro and to have a server class chipset (the AsRock board is a Z87-based board with non-ECC memory).

 

[Esse]

What 8 port controller card do you recommend?

 

/E