At a crossroads...

[StevenD]

When I started my unRAID journey almost 7 years ago, I never imagined that I would run out of space on a server that could hold 48TB of data.  Well, it has happened.  I have a couple of TBs left, but it's definitely time to consider the future.

 

I plan on staying with unRAID. I have looked at other options and I keep coming back to unRAID.  I have a couple of extra Pro licenses as well, so that certainly factors into the decision. 

 

I currently have a rackmount 15-bay case that I absolutely love and have had zero problems with.  I use 13 bays for the array, one bay for cache, and I have one open in case dual-parity is ever implemented.  So, I cannot simply add another 4TB drive as I have in the past.

 

I need approximately 8TB of additional space to get me through the next year or so.

 

Here are my options:

 

Option #1 - Density upgrade

Start swapping out 4TB drives for 8TB drives.  I absolutely refuse to purchase another Seagate drive, so my only option are the HGST drives, at approx $550 each.  I would need three right away to get me the additional 8TB of space that I need (replace parity + two data drives).  Yes, I know that over time, this price should drop, but they have been at that price for a while.

 

Pros - Easy expansion, no additional power draw, data paths all remain the same, up to 96TB of space in the existing server

Cons - COST!!!, No use for 4TB drives being pulled, 24hr+ parity checks/rebuilds 

 

Option #2 - Expand size of array

As I said, I'm out of bays in my current case.  I could pick up a 24-bay case, and use all of my existing hardware. I would need an additional controller card, but that's no big deal.

 

Pros - Least expensive option, data paths all remain the same

Cons - Not at all comfortable running an array this large with a single parity!, will require a day of downtime to move everything over to a new case, limited to 88TB of total space 

 

Option #3 - Build a second server

This is the option that I'm leaning toward. I would build a second server that is identical to my existing server.  4TB drive are certainly the most bang for the buck.

 

Pros - 4TB drives are cheap 

Cons - Double the power draw (my current server averages 430 watts and electricity is cheap, but its still about $300/year to run this one server), another server to manage, data paths will change (I have DFS, so I could use that) 

 

 

What do y'all think?

 

Plex - I'm currently running it as a plugin, and it works flawlessly. I know that Plex cannot access a share on another Linux server, but I'm assuming that if I do option #3, I can mount a remote share to the new server on my exiting unRAID box and then map that to Plex?

[garycase]

Eliminating the 8TB Seagate SMR drives as an option certainly limits the options ... or, more precisely, doubles the cost of that option.    The experience of the folks who have used these drives with UnRAID has been very good to date .. far better than anticipated ... but I can understand your reluctance to buy Seagate if you've had bad experiences with them [There are a few brands I feel the same way about]

 

I agree it's pretty risky to have a 20+ drive array with single parity ... but that's also true of the 13 drives you're already using.    I presume you've got backups of any data you don't want to lose, so the real "hassle" of expanding the array count is just a somewhat higher likelihood that you'll have to restore data at some point from your backups.

 

If 8TB will get you through another year, I'd be inclined to simply add an external eSATA case that holds 2-4 drives; add a 4-port (or more) controller to service that; and then do a density upgrade next year.    By then, cost/TB of 6TB drives will likely be down to the same range the 4TB units are today ... so you could either move to those; or build a new server with 6TB drives.

 

 

 

 

[StevenD]

By then, cost/TB of 6TB drives will likely be down to the same range the 4TB units are today ... so you could either move to those; or build a new server with 6TB drives.

 

 

I had not even considered 6TB drives. I completely forgot that HGST had them.  Cost per TB is only $2 difference.  I could pick up something like http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003X26VV4 and three 6TB drives for less than $1000.  That would get me through the next year or two.

 

I just remembered that I still also have my old unRAID server.  It's not a rackmount, and I would need a UPS for it.  I need to hook it up to my killawatt to see what kind of power it pulls, or even if it still works.  I would only need it for data storage, so I really don't care that it has an old motherboard and processor, and only 4GB of RAM. Plex and everything else would continue to run on my existing server.  Again, I could get three 6TB drives, and a new UPS, and Im still less than $1000 for this setup.

 

Thanks for the ideas!  This is why I posted.

[uldise]

Steven, have you measured an option for large case but two or more unRAID servers as VMs?

i'm always wondered about these huge unRAID arrays with just a single parity..

you can create two arrays and new unassigned drives plugin join them together..

 

mine server have two small arrays, ok, one unRAID and second with Snapraid over Ubuntu VM - more or less for learning

 

[StevenD]

Steven, have you measured an option for large case but two or more unRAID servers as VMs?

i'm always wondered about these huge unRAID arrays with just a single parity..

you can create two arrays and new unassigned drives plugin join them together..

 

mine server have two small arrays, ok, one unRAID and second with Snapraid over Ubuntu VM - more or less for learning

 

 

I have not considered that, but thanks for the idea.

 

That being said, there isn't much cost difference between moving to a 24-bay case, and building a new 15-bay server, and I would still would get more expansion with the 15-bay server..  The only savings may be in power consumption.

[uldise]

Steven, have you measured an option for large case but two or more unRAID servers as VMs?

i'm always wondered about these huge unRAID arrays with just a single parity..

you can create two arrays and new unassigned drives plugin join them together..

 

mine server have two small arrays, ok, one unRAID and second with Snapraid over Ubuntu VM - more or less for learning

 

 

I have not considered that, but thanks for the idea.

 

That being said, there isn't much cost difference between moving to a 24-bay case, and building a new 15-bay server, and I would still would get more expansion with the 15-bay server..  The only savings may be in power consumption.

 

consumption of power and room for new server for me room is a problem cos i have no basement for my lab.. for now

 

another option to expand more is to add second case with power supply only and then use expansion card from first server.

if these two cases are close, that's an option and would use much less power compared with two full servers.. 

[kegler]

While my system is nowhere near the scale of yours, I was faced with the same decision about a year+ ago.  I am assuming the bulk of your storage is for video.  Just about all of mine was mpeg2.  I used Handbrake to compress all of it to H.264 using mkv containers.  It took about four months to transcode everything.

 

This resulted in my storage needs getting cut in half.  I reduced my array from 5 data disks to 3.  Another bonus is that my storage needs are now growing at a substantially lower rate.  When my current set of disks (now about 2 1/2 years old) gets toward the end of their useful life, I will start replacing them with much larger disks. 

 

BTW they are all Seagates of the the model that is supposed to have a high failure rate.  I have yet to have a single failure - not even a single reallocated sector.  (I know this will now come back to bite me now :)  They are also run in a very cool environment.

 

In terms of video quality I am hard pressed to see any real difference, but I am not using really large screens.  I use SageTV extenders for viewing.  As they say, YMMV.

 

Depending on your use case this may be another option.

[snoopy86]

Can i just ask what the f... you guys have on those disk that you've managed to fill almost 50tb of space.

 

Is this mostly media stuff or what... I don't see it happening for only privat use that's why i'm asking.

[StevenD]

Yes, 90% of my storage is media (movies, TV shows, etc).

 

Almost everything is x264/H264. I do have one share for WTV files, which are MPEG2, but those get deleted as I watch them or converted.  I have started collecting some 4k media lately, and that stuff burns through space quickly.  Quality is a BIG concern for me as I'm looking at a 160"+ screen in my next house. 

 

I have considered re-converting things to H265, but that takes a REALLY long time to re-encode, and none of my Plex clients can play it "Direct Play." Plex must transcode it.

 

As far as Seagate goes, they really burned me with the 7200.11 and 7200.12 fiasco.  I have had more than 25 Seagate drives go south in the last several years.  And then, when you read Backblaze's study, they had a pretty high failure rate on newer Seagate drives.

[StevenD]

Can i just ask what the f... you guys have on those disk that you've managed to fill almost 50tb of space.

 

Is this mostly media stuff or what... I don't see it happening for only privat use that's why i'm asking.

 

This is what I currently have in Plex.

 

Almost all TV shows are 720p or 1080p.  Most of the 1080p shows are BluRay rips with DTS, so they are usually 4GB EACH!  All of the BluRays are 1080p. Some are re-encoded, some are straight copies right off the disc.  So, some of those are 40GB+.

 

I will admit to being a data hoarder. I do not like deleting things.  And yes, one way or another, this is all backed up.

 

[snoopy86]

That's what i thought. Screen from plex saids it all. Great collection!

 

So on the tv you run this from plex or kodi?

[StevenD]

That's what i thought. Screen from plex saids it all. Great collection!

 

So on the tv you run this from plex or kodi?

 

Neither!  I also run Emby server on my unRAID and I have an HTPC connected to every TV in the house running Windows Media Center.  I really like the Emby interface inside of WMC, so thats what I use in the house.  Since this is my only method for watching TV, WMC also allows me to record OTA.

 

Plex is for when I'm away from home and for my family.

 

With Trakt installed on both, Emby and Plex are always up to date with what I have watched, what is on-deck, etc.

 

The only time Plex gets used in my house is when my MIL house sits. It's much easier for her to use, than to deal with WMC.

[bkasten]

When I started my unRAID journey almost 7 years ago, I never imagined that I would run out of space on a server that could hold 48TB of data.  Well, it has happened.  I have a couple of TBs left, but it's definitely time to consider the future.

 

StevenD

 

Although my data needs are not as great as yours, I faced this decision a few years ago.

 

What I eventually decided on was to split the server into two. At the time it made sense. All TV on one, All movies on the other (the 'movie' server also held the small amount of house data that was necessary). At the time, 2TB drives were the norm, and with the flooding in Asia, drive prices went through the roof.

 

From the start, I operated under the full understanding that this was temporary, and that the data would all be reunited sometime in the future. It worked well for me to split the servers. For the most part, it was transparent.

 

Time past and it came time to reconfigure again. Boy was it the right time! I wanted to virtualize unRAID under ESXi 5.5 (yet another Atlas inspired server). The hardware I wanted (not that I knew about before hand) was now available, and at a reasonable cost. Got myself a Supermicro 1150 board with the LSI 8-port on board, nice. And put it all in an R4 case.

 

The great motherboard, and VMware allowed me to reconsolidate like I had never considered before. I was able to migrate all the disparate little servers (old desktops recruited to perform small tasks) all into one server, that was much cooler, and much quieter.

 

The release of the WD RED 6TB's helped a lot too.

 

I think splitting the unRAID server into two was the best plan I ever came up with. Especially since I knew that one day I would recombine them. Just didn't realize at the time how much combining I would do!

 

If your needs are pressing, you may want to consider splitting your server. HDD prices are a bit high now, but they will come down. The sizes are increasing all the time. Right now 10TB drives are on the horizon. They are expensive, but they will come down. Soon you will be able to populate your 15 bay server with 10TB drives, (140TB online!!!).

 

BTW: What to do with the second now idle unRAID server? That is going to be my new (garycase inspired) backup server. The spec are lesser to be sure, but just how modern does a backup server have to be?

 

[StevenD]

If your needs are pressing, you may want to consider splitting your server. HDD prices are a bit high now, but they will come down. The sizes are increasing all the time. Right now 10TB drives are on the horizon. They are expensive, but they will come down. Soon you will be able to populate your 15 bay server with 10TB drives, (140TB online!!!).

 

Well, I was kind of counting on that.  However, we haven't seen high-performance, 8-10TB drives come on the market, at a price per gig anywhere close to the 4TB drives yet.  I bet 10TB drives, for less than $45/TB are 5 years away.

 

I know that the Seagate 8TB drives are affordable, but I have already stated my concerns about those. Plus, they are considered "archive" drives and are not 7200rpm.  I could have 3-4 different movies being read from a single drive at any one time.

 

I'm fairly certain that a new server build is in my near future.  I need to do some maths though as I think power going to my rack might not be able to handle another 500 watts.

[StevenD]

Thank you all for your suggestions and feedback!

[SSD]

I had a similar issue with my backup server - wanted to find a way to shoehorn more drives into the array. I bought a very inexpensive Rosewill 4in3 and long breakout cable from Newegg. The 4in3 sits on top of the case and the breakout cable along with a long molex power extender. Cost about $50 for 4 drives of expansion. I am embarrassed to say I added two of them to my already 15 drive server and now it can support 23 drives. Of course you need extra SAS (or Sata) ports which might require a new controller.

 

I actually like this better than a single case with that many drives which is heavy as lead! 4 drive "quads" are a very manageable size and weight. I could even see a tiny server paired with several of these 4in3s looking like a giant spider and providing tremendous drive expansion.

 

BTW, I like the 4in3s better than 5in3s for this purpose since a single SAS connector feeds 4 drives, but 5in3s could also be used if you can get 5 SATA connectors to it.

[StevenD]

I had a similar issue with my backup server - wanted to find a way to shoehorn more drives into the array. I bought a very inexpensive Rosewill 4in3 and long breakout cable from Newegg. The 4in3 sits on top of the case and the breakout cable along with a long molex power extender. Cost about $50 for 4 drives of expansion. I am embarrassed to say I added two of them to my already 15 drive server and now it can support 23 drives. Of course you need extra SAS (or Sata) ports which might require a new controller.

 

I actually like this better than a single case with that many drives which is heavy as lead! 4 drive "quads" are a very manageable size and weight. I could even see a tiny server paired with several of these 4in3s looking like a giant spider and providing tremendous drive expansion.

 

BTW, I like the 4in3s better than 5in3s for this purpose since a single SAS connector feeds 4 drives, but 5in3s could also be used if you can get 5 SATA connectors to it.

 

This would be fine temporarily, but I have spent a lot of money and time getting everything rack mounted. 

 

For the time being, I have my old unRAID box that Im going to pull out and see how well it runs v6.  I don't remember if it even still has a motherboard in it, or if I stripped anything off of it.

 

B&H has HGST 6TB drives for $264.