showstopper Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hi all, I have been flirting with the idea of building a unraid server for a while now. I think i will actually go through with it now! However I am stuck at a case choice. The issue is that i want to put this in my TV cabinet and the height is limited - H-26.5, W-54, D-40 (cm). I was (and possibly still am!) undeciding on building an unraid server or a gaming htpc. I am leaning more towards the unraid as i want a dedicated storage server that i can easily manage and expand. I can buy a steamlink to game in the lounge! When I was looking at htpc\gaming build i was looking at http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=330&area=en or this http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=331&area=en However now i am thinking of more storage that space to fit a long GPU i guess i am looking at a desktop case (that will fit) with as many 5.25" drive bays as possible. Anyone have any ideas on cases for me? Quote Link to comment
tdallen Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 How many drive bays are you looking for? FWIW, if you are starting from scratch I recommend planning for a smaller number of large capacity drives, rather than a large number of small capacity drives. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 How many drive bays are you looking for? FWIW, if you are starting from scratch I recommend planning for a smaller number of large capacity drives, rather than a large number of small capacity drives. Thanks for your reply. I am essentially starting from scratch, with the exception of the initial hard drives. I have 4 x 3TB WD Reds (3.5"). I'll probably also use my existing 250GB SSD, if i can. Ideally i would like a case with room for expansion. Wasn't sure if there are any desktop style cases that i can cram some "5in1" in? Quote Link to comment
tdallen Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 If you are set on placing your server in the TV stand, I think you are on the right track. HTPC cases like the Silverstones are designed to be oriented horizontally and still have a significant number of drive bays. The only other horizontally oriented cases I can think of are rack mounts, not sure if that would work for you... Several considerations, though. I'm not a fan of putting servers into a highly enclosed location, cooling is an issue and hard drives don't like heat. Is your TV stand fully enclosed or open? Think about air flow... Due to cooling requirements both storage servers and gaming rigs tend to be a bit noisy. You can aim for a quiet setup but it will take fan upgrades, etc. Drive cages (3 in 2, 4 in 3, 5 in 3) are commonly used in towers. They require a set of externally accessible 5.25" drive bays, though, which aren't common in horizontally oriented cases. Placing a tower case on its side is generally a bad idea due to impeded airflow. So I'd continue looking at HTPC cases like Silverstone or rack mounts like iStarUSA, Norco, Rosewill, Ark, etc. Actually, I'd just stuff my server in a closet somewhere and stick with near-silent devices near my TV, but that's personal preference. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 If you are set on placing your server in the TV stand, I think you are on the right track. HTPC cases like the Silverstones are designed to be oriented horizontally and still have a significant number of drive bays. The only other horizontally oriented cases I can think of are rack mounts, not sure if that would work for you... Several considerations, though. I'm not a fan of putting servers into a highly enclosed location, cooling is an issue and hard drives don't like heat. Is your TV stand fully enclosed or open? Think about air flow... Due to cooling requirements both storage servers and gaming rigs tend to be a bit noisy. You can aim for a quiet setup but it will take fan upgrades, etc. Drive cages (3 in 2, 4 in 3, 5 in 3) are commonly used in towers. They require a set of externally accessible 5.25" drive bays, though, which aren't common in horizontally oriented cases. Placing a tower case on its side is generally a bad idea due to impeded airflow. So I'd continue looking at HTPC cases like Silverstone or rack mounts like iStarUSA, Norco, Rosewill, Ark, etc. Actually, I'd just stuff my server in a closet somewhere and stick with near-silent devices near my TV, but that's personal preference. The TV unit is open front and back so airflow should be OK. Noise is a big factor so i would probably look at noctua fan upgrade. Without a GPU i reckon it should be fairly quiet. If i had anywhere else to put it i would do, but my router and switch are already in the front room. Hmmm maybe i could get a cable to the loft?! Quote Link to comment
CHBMB Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Hmmm maybe i could get a cable to the loft?! I'd only do that if your board had IPMI or it was easy to get to the loft. Quote Link to comment
tdallen Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 The TV unit is open front and back so airflow should be OK. Possibly, but a lot of HTPC cases are designed for side to side airflow rather than front to rear. Take a look at the case design and make sure you've got adequate space on the sides before committing. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 This happened to me last time! The more i read the more i change my mind!! Now looking at a Fractal Node 304, but not sure on the CPU to use? Mainly NAS but with plex used on 2-3 devices. Quote Link to comment
tdallen Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The 304 is well regarded. It holds fewer HDs than the Silverstones you linked, though. It also looks tight on height - make sure the legs are included in the measured device height. Also keep in mind that HD access is from the top so you'll have to completely remove it from the TV cabinet for maintenance. You'll want to use an SFX power supply. Sizing a CPU for Plex is not straightforward - you can need anything from a Pentium G3258 to a Xeon. The big considerations are the format you store your media in and the capabilities of your players. If you store your media in a format that can be directly consumed by your players a Pentium (or even a Celeron) will work. One of the great things about Plex, though, is it's ability to support many different media formats and player types. It does that by transcoding your media in real time into a format that can be consumed by your player. In the worst case if you have 2 or 3 people watching simultaneously on different devices that require transcoding and store your media as high bit rate native BD Rips, you will want a higher end i5, i7, or Xeon. As a general rule, I recommend a minimum of a Core i3 4130 or better if you are going to be doing some transcoding. Bump that up to CPUs with 6,000 or 8,000 or more Passmarks if you want to support several streams doing serious transcoding. The "rule of thumb" is 2,000 Passmarks per 1080p stream, but overkill can be needed if you have high bit rate material. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Thank you for all your help Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 OK i think i have a kit list now. Not sure i can afford the i5, and TBH im not sure i need it. Fractal Node 304 i3-4170 Fractal Design 550W Integra M PSU GA-H97N-WIFI Motherboard (amazon dont do the non-wifi version) Crucial Ballistix Sport 2 x 8GB RAM I will be adding my existing 4x3TB WD Reds Not sure about a cache drive yet - think i can get away without it? Any thoughts before i go through. I will say that i looked at a lot of different options. I initially was looking at a skylake build, but the CPU's are still pricey. Also looked at a xeon CPU but no mini-itx boards out there. Also ideally i will get the majority from amazon as i have about £350 in vouchers. Quote Link to comment
CHBMB Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 OK i think i have a kit list now. Not sure i can afford the i5, and TBH im not sure i need it. Fractal Node 304 i3-4170 Fractal Design 550W Integra M PSU GA-H97N-WIFI Motherboard (amazon dont do the non-wifi version) Crucial Ballistix Sport 2 x 8GB RAM I will be adding my existing 4x3TB WD Reds Not sure about a cache drive yet - think i can get away without it? Any thoughts before i go through. I will say that i looked at a lot of different options. I initially was looking at a skylake build, but the CPU's are still pricey. Also looked at a xeon CPU but no mini-itx boards out there. Also ideally i will get the majority from amazon as i have about £350 in vouchers. If you're planning to run an Unraid/HTPC or perform virtualisation with graphics card passthrough then you're going to need a CPU that has vt-d and a discrete gfx card.... in which case also check the motherboard has vt-d as well.. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 OK i think i have a kit list now. Not sure i can afford the i5, and TBH im not sure i need it. Fractal Node 304 i3-4170 Fractal Design 550W Integra M PSU GA-H97N-WIFI Motherboard (amazon dont do the non-wifi version) Crucial Ballistix Sport 2 x 8GB RAM I will be adding my existing 4x3TB WD Reds Not sure about a cache drive yet - think i can get away without it? Any thoughts before i go through. I will say that i looked at a lot of different options. I initially was looking at a skylake build, but the CPU's are still pricey. Also looked at a xeon CPU but no mini-itx boards out there. Also ideally i will get the majority from amazon as i have about £350 in vouchers. If you're planning to run an Unraid/HTPC or perform virtualisation with graphics card passthrough then you're going to need a CPU that has vt-d and a discrete gfx card.... in which case also check the motherboard has vt-d as well.. No vm's. Just NAS and plex. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 ... Also looked at a xeon CPU but no mini-itx boards out there. Actually there are several good mini-itx boards for Xeons ... for example: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G9TZHSQ/ref=psdc_1048424_t1_B00G9U6FIQ A server-class board with a Xeon and ECC memory is definitely a better choice, although clearly it adds to the cost. Quote Link to comment
tdallen Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Core i3's support ECC on a server class motherboard too, if you want to keep the cost down now but give yourself some future room for growth. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Oh dear now you have gone and caused me more lost time in research!! Seriously though thank you all for your input. What are the advantages of the C226 class board over the H97? Is it just the virtualisation options? Also should i be looking at a hardware raid card, or is internal ok? If i wanted to change to external in the future, would i lose my data? Any suggestions on a card that can do 6 drives? Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 OK so the v(lost count!) 3 kitlist is currently this. Motherboard (£165) - ASRock E3C226D2I Server/Workstation Board (Socket 1150, Intel C226, DDR3, S-ATA 600, M-ITX) RAM (16GB) (£88) - Kingston KVR1333D3E9SK2/16G RAM 16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC CL9 DIMM Memory Kit (2 x 8 GB) 240-Pin RAM (8GB) (£45) - Kingston KVR1333D3E9S/8G RAM 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC CL9 DIMM, 240-Pin CPU (£86) - Intel Core i3 Processor (3.7 GHz, 3 MB, LGA1150 Socket) Case (£70) - Fractal Design Node 304 Case PSU (£54) - Fractal Design 550 W Integra M Power Supply Unit - Black Either/or for the RAM - probably go with 8GB. Any thoughts on this build? Gives me the option to put a xeon in at a later date, if required. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The server class chipsets (e.g. the 226) support ECC ... an H97 does not. Your current parts list looks good, with one thing you should consider: The i3-4170 DOES support ECC memory if used on a server class board, but it does NOT support vt-d, so it won't support pass-through to any VM's you may want to build. If that's something you care about, I'd move up to a Xeon, which will support vt-d and also provide a lot more "horsepower". An E3-1230v3 is a good choice ... PassMark of 9317 compared to 5174 for the i3. The extra cost is a good investment in "future-proofing" your system. I've never heard anyone complain about having "too much" CPU power, but have seen a lot of folks who wish they had more BTW, I'd go with 16GB of RAM => installing two modules will let the memory run in the higher-performance dual channel mode, and will provide plenty of working space for Dockers and VM's. Quote Link to comment
tdallen Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 General advantages of server class boards including C226 boards include things like ECC Ram, sometimes more RAM slots, IPMI, dual LAN ports, LAN ports with Intel chipsets rather than something like RealTek, sometimes more SATA ports or more SATA 3 ports, sometimes SAS ports and always support for Xeon processors. If I were building a new box and cost wasn't a concern I'd put in 16GB, but honestly my 8GB server is doing just fine running dockers and performing basic NAS functions. The main things to look for in a power supply include a quality manufacturer and a single 12V rail. Based on a quick look I think that power supply hits both. However, that looks like a full size ATX power supply. It generally works out *much* better to use a smaller SFX power supply in these small form factor builds. Silverstone makes the leading units - something like this. Take your pick of sizes and modular cables. I think you'd be fine with 450w in this build, maybe even 300w - you might want to run a calculator. Fancy GPUs are what take all the power and you're just setting up for basic NAS duties. Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 I did look at that PSU but it has terrible UK reviews - http://www.amazon.co.uk/SilverStone-SST-ST45SF-Strider-Bronze-Supply/dp/B003LU6PN2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453410239&sr=8-1&keywords=SilverStone+450W+SFX So the one i found is meant to fit in the node 304 as it is 140mm deep - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fractal-Design-Integra-Power-Supply/dp/B00LW1XM06/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453410342&sr=8-1&keywords=Fractal+Design+550+W+Integra+M+Power+Supply+Unit+-+Black Although that silverstone does have great US reviews, although some of the newer ones say it is noisy. Hmm not sure what SFX to go for. I think i can get away with a 300W as well but the price difference isnt too much different. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hadn't noticed that you listed an ATX power supply -- I absolutely agree that an SFX unit is a FAR better choice in most mini-ITX cases, but it's actually much less important in the 304 because of the unique placement [it's mounted sideways under the hard drive brackets]. However, the Fractal Integra units don't use a single 12v rail, so I'd switch to a unit that does ... whether or not you choose to use an SFX unit. [i'd still tend to use an SFX, just for the extra airflow it will provide below the hard drives.] Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 True - although i thought the silverstone only has 4 SATA power? Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 True - although i thought the silverstone only has 4 SATA power? Actually the 450w unit only has 3 SATA power connections. Easy enough to split, however: http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Power-Y-Splitter-Inches/dp/B00V6QA65G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453413960&sr=8-2&keywords=sata+y+power+splitter Quote Link to comment
showstopper Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 OK i think i have my kit list: Motherboard (£165) - ASRock E3C226D2I Server/Workstation Board (Socket 1150, Intel C226, DDR3, S-ATA 600, M-ITX) RAM (8GB) (£45) - Kingston KVR1333D3E9S/8G RAM 8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 ECC CL9 DIMM, 240-Pin CPU (£86) - Intel Core i3 Processor (3.7 GHz, 3 MB, LGA1150 Socket) Case (£70) - Fractal Design Node 304 Case PSU (£57) - SilverStone SST-ST45SF v 2.0 Strider SFX Bronze 450 W Power Supply Unit SATA Splitter (£5) - StarTech 4x SATA Power Splitter Adapter Cable USB (£5) - Cruzer Fit 16 GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive unRAID Basic $60 = £43 Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Looks good ... the I3 should have plenty of processing power, and as I noted earlier, the only notable feature missing from it is vt-d => not needed if you don't plan to pass through any I/O devices to a VM. Quote Link to comment
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