"Too many wrong and/or missing disks!"

[codo1234]

hey,

i had 2 HD's faulty, i changed one, and when i want to "Start array" its write - "Too many wrong and/or missing disks!"/

 

Disk 3 when i chose the new HD the icon become blue,

and Disk 5 that aslo gone, stay "X". i dont have new one to change right now, i want to start the machine like this, and copy the files from the disk 5 that dead and went to Parity to the new disk 3.

 

what can i do? to strat the array?

[JorgeB]

Unless you have dual parity you can't start the array with 2 bad disks, it's also not possible to replace and rebuild one of them with another one failed.

 

Are you sure both disks are really bad?

 

Go to Tools -> Diagnostics and attach the complete zip.

[codo1234]

yes iam sure, i replaced one (disk 3) now, but i stil cant start the array that he will work

homenas-diagnostics-20161022-1350.zip

[JorgeB]

Like I said above you can't start the array with more than one bad/missing disk with single parity.

[codo1234]

ok, so what about the Diagnostics?

what i need to do.

 

i cant add more disks.

[trurl]

You should have asked before you did anything at all. Also, do you have Notifications setup? It would have probably notified you before you got to a place where you had 2 bad disks.

 

Did both disks have a red X before you changed one of them? Often a disk can get disabled for a reason other than a bad disk.

 

One of the disks in your diagnostics does have a large number of reallocations so that one should probably be replaced, but since we can't see the SMART for the disk you removed don't know if it is bad also. And you rebooted after removing disk5 so we can't see anything about what happened in the syslog.

 

Can you put the original disk5 back in and then give us a new diagnostic? It might be possible to get unRAID to try to rebuild one of the disks but we need to decide which one will give the best chance of rebuilding the other.

[codo1234]

You should have asked before you did anything at all. Also, do you have Notifications setup? It would have probably notified you before you got to a place where you had 2 bad disks.

 

Did both disks have a red X before you changed one of them? Often a disk can get disabled for a reason other than a bad disk.

 

One of the disks in your diagnostics does have a large number of reallocations so that one should probably be replaced, but since we can't see the SMART for the disk you removed don't know if it is bad also. And you rebooted after removing disk5 so we can't see anything about what happened in the syslog.

 

Can you put the original disk5 back in and then give us a new diagnostic? It might be possible to get unRAID to try to rebuild one of the disks but we need to decide which one will give the best chance of rebuilding the other.

 

you right, i thought on know what to do.

 

yes both of them after red.

disk 3 had alot of error and 5, but disk 3 was red. i restart the system and than buth of them become red, and than i changed disk 3 to new one.

 

the doriginal bad disk 5 is in

and he have X on Faulty in Dashboard page.

 

also disk 3 was empty, disk 5 was full.

 

 

[trurl]

Can you put the original disk5 back in and then give us a new diagnostic? It might be possible to get unRAID to try to rebuild one of the disks but we need to decide which one will give the best chance of rebuilding the other.

[codo1234]

i dont know what happend, another one lost after i turn off the system to replace to the bad disk.

 

here the diagnostic

homenas-diagnostics-20161023-1645.zip

[trurl]

Now disk1 is also missing along with disk5. Check your connections.

 

Ideally we'd like to get to a place where no disks are missing, then we can decide which disk to try to rebuild. It may be that one disk is truly dead, and if so then we will have no choice but to try to rebuild that one.

 

If you can't get to a place where no or only one disk is missing, then the data for the missing disks is lost.

 

You never answered the question about whether you had Notifications setup, but I would assume not. Most likely you had one disk failing and you never even noticed until another had failed. Notifications could have told you before it was too late.

 

Do you have backups? That might be the easiest and most reliable way to get your data back.

[codo1234]

Now disk1 is also missing along with disk5. Check your connections.

 

Ideally we'd like to get to a place where no disks are missing, then we can decide which disk to try to rebuild. It may be that one disk is truly dead, and if so then we will have no choice but to try to rebuild that one.

 

If you can't get to a place where no or only one disk is missing, then the data for the missing disks is lost.

 

You never answered the question about whether you had Notifications setup, but I would assume not. Most likely you had one disk failing and you never even noticed until another had failed. Notifications could have told you before it was too late.

 

Do you have backups? That might be the easiest and most reliable way to get your data back.

 

i didnt had Notifications, i saw that disk5 had errors, but still worked.

i dont have backup 

 

so what you recommend me to do?

i have only one disk of 1Tara to replace disk3 (that also 1Tara), and another of 500GB (old one).

 

[trurl]

...so what you recommend me to do?...

... Check your connections.

 

Ideally we'd like to get to a place where no disks are missing, then we can decide which disk to try to rebuild. It may be that one disk is truly dead, and if so then we will have no choice but to try to rebuild that one.

 

If you can't get to a place where no or only one disk is missing, then the data for the missing disks is lost...

[trurl]

i dont have backup 

You absolutely must keep backups of any files that are irreplaceable. unRAID (and indeed any RAID) is not a backup.

[codo1234]

1. its not important data, but still, its s***s.

2.

...so what you recommend me to do?...

... Check your connections.

 

Ideally we'd like to get to a place where no disks are missing, then we can decide which disk to try to rebuild. It may be that one disk is truly dead, and if so then we will have no choice but to try to rebuild that one.

 

If you can't get to a place where no or only one disk is missing, then the data for the missing disks is lost...

 

what do you mean, what  i need to do?

i will turn off the system. check the connection.

and than?

 

[trurl]

1. its not important data, but still, its s***s.

2.

...so what you recommend me to do?...

... Check your connections.

 

Ideally we'd like to get to a place where no disks are missing, then we can decide which disk to try to rebuild. It may be that one disk is truly dead, and if so then we will have no choice but to try to rebuild that one.

 

If you can't get to a place where no or only one disk is missing, then the data for the missing disks is lost...

 

what do you mean, what  i need to do?

i will turn off the system. check the connection.

and than?

And then post a screenshot showing that no disks are missing, or at most one disk is missing. And post a new diagnostic.

 

If you can't get it to have no missing disks, or at most one missing disk, then we are wasting our time trying to get any data back from the missing disks, but the data on the other disks should still be OK (or at least as good as they were. Seems like you have probably neglected your system so who knows?)

 

Are all of your disks on motherboard ports?

[trurl]

And when I say "Check connections" I mean check both ends of power and SATA connections to each disk.

[codo1234]

ok , i checked, you can give yourself  an "Pat on the back" - disk1 was not connected good.

 

now only one disk ( i replaced disk3) in gone - disk5

 

i use this computer everyday and do update every time, so i didnt neglected my system...

 

homenas-diagnostics-20161023-1741.zip

[codo1234]

1. its not important data, but still, its s***s.

2.

...so what you recommend me to do?...

... Check your connections.

 

Ideally we'd like to get to a place where no disks are missing, then we can decide which disk to try to rebuild. It may be that one disk is truly dead, and if so then we will have no choice but to try to rebuild that one.

 

If you can't get to a place where no or only one disk is missing, then the data for the missing disks is lost...

 

what do you mean, what  i need to do?

i will turn off the system. check the connection.

and than?

And then post a screenshot showing that no disks are missing, or at most one disk is missing. And post a new diagnostic.

 

If you can't get it to have no missing disks, or at most one missing disk, then we are wasting our time trying to get any data back from the missing disks, but the data on the other disks should still be OK (or at least as good as they were. Seems like you have probably neglected your system so who knows?)

 

Are all of your disks on motherboard ports?

 

 

 

yes, all of them..

[trurl]

...

now only one disk ( i replaced disk3) in gone - disk5

...

You say you replaced disk3. Were you able to successfully rebuild all of the disk3 data to the replacement disk before disk5 failed? Doesn't sound like it from the rest of this thread.

 

A new disk in disk3 slot doesn't help us. We must have all of the data from all of the original disks except for a single missing disk before we can rebuild that single missing disk. The only reason I was trying to get all disks was because I wanted to be able to choose the best one to use in order to rebuild the other. If disk5 absolutely cannot be used, then that is the one we would have to rebuild, but we would need the original disk3 data for the rebuild of disk5 data.

 

Or if we can get the original disk5 to work we can try to rebuild disk3 instead.

 

Do you understand how parity works? Parity doesn't actually contain the data of any disks, it just contains bits that allow us to calculate a single disks data from the parity bits plus all of the other disks data. So all of the other disks data plus the parity bits must be present before we can reconstruct the data from a missing disk.

 

This is why a single parity disk only allows for a single data disk to be recovered.

 

Unless you can get either the original disk3 or the original disk5 to work we are wasting our time.

[trurl]

...

i use this computer everyday and do update every time, so i didnt neglected my system...

So when you say you use it every day, do you mean you actually open the unRAID webUI and check to make sure none of your disks have a red X beside them?

 

Or do you just mean that you read or write unRAID data from a different computer?

 

When a single disk becomes disabled (a red X), unRAID will emulate it by calculating its data from all of the other disks plus the parity disk. This means you can still read and write to a disk that unRAID has disabled and isn't really even using anymore. In fact, that disk might not even be there and unRAID will emulate it. It is only when another disk becomes disabled that you wouldn't be able to access your data.

 

So, unless you were paying attention, or unless you had Notifications setup to tell you, you may have had one disk with a red X for quite some time before another disk became disabled.

 

This is why I asked about Notifications, because it is unusual for more than one disk to fail at the same time. So I thought perhaps you had been using your unRAID with one disk already disabled when another one began to have problems.

[codo1234]

...

now only one disk ( i replaced disk3) in gone - disk5

...

You say you replaced disk3. Were you able to successfully rebuild all of the disk3 data to the replacement disk before disk5 failed? Doesn't sound like it from the rest of this thread.

 

A new disk in disk3 slot doesn't help us. We must have all of the data from all of the original disks except for a single missing disk before we can rebuild that single missing disk. The only reason I was trying to get all disks was because I wanted to be able to choose the best one to use in order to rebuild the other. If disk5 absolutely cannot be used, then that is the one we would have to rebuild, but we would need the original disk3 data for the rebuild of disk5 data.

 

Or if we can get the original disk5 to work we can try to rebuild disk3 instead.

 

Do you understand how parity works? Parity doesn't actually contain the data of any disks, it just contains bits that allow us to calculate a single disks data from the parity bits plus all of the other disks data. So all of the other disks data plus the parity bits must be present before we can reconstruct the data from a missing disk.

 

This is why a single parity disk only allows for a single data disk to be recovered.

 

Unless you can get either the original disk3 or the original disk5 to work we are wasting our time.

 

Disk3 that faild had no data at all! only disk5.

if i change to again to the old failed disk3 it wil help? again no data were on him.

 

...

i use this computer everyday and do update every time, so i didnt neglected my system...

So when you say you use it every day, do you mean you actually open the unRAID webUI and check to make sure none of your disks have a red X beside them?

 

Or do you just mean that you read or write unRAID data from a different computer?

 

When a single disk becomes disabled (a red X), unRAID will emulate it by calculating its data from all of the other disks plus the parity disk. This means you can still read and write to a disk that unRAID has disabled and isn't really even using anymore. In fact, that disk might not even be there and unRAID will emulate it. It is only when another disk becomes disabled that you wouldn't be able to access your data.

 

So, unless you were paying attention, or unless you had Notifications setup to tell you, you may have had one disk with a red X for quite some time before another disk became disabled.

 

This is why I asked about Notifications, because it is unusual for more than one disk to fail at the same time. So I thought perhaps you had been using your unRAID with one disk already disabled when another one began to have problems.

 

yes, i saw that disk5 have some errors suddenly, but it was not red "X". only after i did restart to the system, it become red + disk3 = that had no errors before.

 

 

thanks for the patience  and the help trurl.

[trurl]

Disk3 that faild had no data at all! only disk5.

if i change to again to the old failed disk3 it wil help? again no data were on him.

Even a disk that has no files on it still has the metadata of the empty filesystem. And the empty filesystem metadata are data bits that are part of the parity calculation. So we must have the metadata from the disk3 empty filesystem if we want to rebuild disk5.

 

Is the original disk5 still installed? I don't see it in the diagnostics.

 

I am still wondering about how you got 2 disabled or missing disks. I think it is probable that only one disk was missing or disabled at first, then maybe some time passed before you noticed it didn't work at all because you then had 2 disks missing or disabled. The reason this is important is because the first disk that was disabled will be out-of-sync with parity, and ideally that is the disk we would try to rebuild.

[codo1234]

Disk3 that faild had no data at all! only disk5.

if i change to again to the old failed disk3 it wil help? again no data were on him.

Even a disk that has no files on it still has the metadata of the empty filesystem. And the empty filesystem metadata are data bits that are part of the parity calculation. So we must have the metadata from the disk3 empty filesystem if we want to rebuild disk5.

 

Is the original disk5 still installed? I don't see it in the diagnostics.

 

I am still wondering about how you got 2 disabled or missing disks. I think it is probable that only one disk was missing or disabled at first, then maybe some time passed before you noticed it didn't work at all because you then had 2 disks missing or disabled. The reason this is important is because the first disk that was disabled will be out-of-sync with parity, and ideally that is the disk we would try to rebuild.

 

ok i cahnged again. now 2 disks dont work - and i cant get them to be work or not to be missing.

 

about the 2 disks that dont work - again - i saw that disk 5 had some errors and i didint do nothing, it was like 3 days before the accident, than i moved all files from disk 3 to other and empty him, to change him to new 1TARA disk, because disk3 was old,i heard strange noise from the system of disk that try to "think", than i saw on the the main page that disk5 "X", i did restart after and than i saw that also disk3 dead also.

[trurl]

Probably already wasted too much time on this. Even if you could rebuild disk5 it would probably have significant corruption that would require even more effort to recover from. And you would still probably lose some of it.

 

Just create a new array with the existing disks and a new disk3 and let it rebuild parity. Forget about disk5 and its files.

 

Maybe take this all as lessons learned, and more lessons to be learned.

 

Lesson 1) Set up Notifications so unRAID can notify you before you get more than one disk failed. You can't recover more than one disk if you only have one parity. The latest unRAID supports 2 parity, which would allow recovery of 2 disks if you want to consider that, but in any case, set up Notifications.

 

Lesson 2) Make a backup plan. You don't have to backup everything, just consider that anything that you don't have backed up can be lost forever. Decide what you absolutely cannot bear to lose, what would be very inconvenient to replace, etc.

 

Lesson 3) Try to learn how parity actually works. It is not very complicated and it is explained pretty well in the wiki and on Limetech's website. Many of the things I have been trying to explain to you would be obvious if you understood parity.

 

 

[codo1234]

lessons learned.

 

but i cant still start the array because disk5, i need to disconnect him?