Silverstone CS380 Compact Mid-Tower 8x4TB Hot Swap


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5 minutes ago, dmacias said:
1 hour ago, Hoopster said:
I flipped the fans to pull and swapped side panels so vented panel was on the back side.  Same results more or less.  After 1 hour 15 minutes of parity check - parity drive was as 43C and data drives were at 40-41C.  This was with fans connected to 12v leads whereas tests with fans and panels in standard "push" configuration were running on 7v leads.  So, presumably higher fan speeds resulted in the same results in the "pull" configuration.

Same noise level? Maybe with some sort of fan control it would be tolerable for you under normal everyday use. Just loud during parity checks. Also did you have the filters on or off? When I had the DS380, I did a lot of testing with and without.

 

I believe it was a bit quieter.  Certainly, it was not any louder.  All tests have been with filters on.

 

I emailed SIlverstone to see if I could get another vented side panel.  They also suggested that I try the vented panel on the backside and that I add slim 120mm fans to the panel when placed on that side.  That may improve cooling, but probably increase noise.  Unfortunately, the server is not in a place where cooling is all I care about.  I don't mind a bit of noise, it is just distracting when the server is the loudest thing in the room.

 

I still think the drive cage design is the issue.  There is just not enough air getting through it efficiently.  I will also play around with disk placement as three of the eight bays are empty (and a fouth could be as I just have a spare disk in there with no SATA connected).

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Silverstone CS380   I was looking at getting a 4U rack mount case for a future rack. But most reviews for the sub $200 4U cases listed cons I wasn't willing to accept. Size, airflow, availa

OS: unRAID 6.4.0-rc10b Pro License CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1240 v3 $152 used eBay Motherboard: SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SLL-F uATX Server Motherboard LGA 1150 $109 used eBay RAM (24GB): Crucial 16GB ECC (2

@dmacias I just bought the same case and have the Corsair SFX power supply as well.  I see you had to get cable extenders as the PSU cables that come with these SFX PSUs are very short.  Was the SATA

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13 hours ago, dmacias said:

Same noise level?

I found the source of the noise.  It is the Enermax fan on the bottom! 

 

It is the only fan in all of the swapping around that I never changed.  It is close enough to the drive cage fans that I could not tell it was the culprit.  I now have it unplugged and the Noctuas on the drive cage connected to the MB fan header.  I have configured the fans in BIOS to run full speed and the noise is much reduced by simply unplugging the Enermax.

 

I am running another parity check now and we'll see what temps I get with cage fans on full speed.  I have reconfigured to the standard "push" configuration.

 

UPDATE: Stopped Parity check after 1 hour 15 minutes; parity drive temp was 41C, data drives were at 38-40C.  Full speed fans kept the temps down even without the bottom intake fan and the noise level is back to where it was in the Lian-Li case; quieter than the other computers in the room.  If I need an intake fan on the bottom, I will be replacing the Enermax, it's definitely the noisiest fan in the case.

 

BIOS fan control is based on either MB or CPU temps which don't fluctuate much during parity checks.  I want to control the drive cage fan speed based on drive temps so, I'll check on options for doing that.

Edited by Hoopster
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I found the source of the noise.  It is the Enermax fan on the bottom! 
 

BIOS fan control is based on either MB or CPU temps which don't fluctuate much during parity checks.

I want to control the drive cage fan speed based on drive temps so, I'll check on options for doing that.

Glad you figured out your noise problem. Besides being in the closet, my unifi router and switch drown out the server.

That was the exact reason I started working on my IPMI plugin. Besides getting accurate sensor readings, I wanted to control the hdd fans based on hdd temp. You might try the dynamix auto fan control. Your board may be supported by lm-sensors
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3 minutes ago, dmacias said:

You might try the dynamix auto fan control. Your board may be supported by lm-sensors 

Yes, I have it installed and configured and am running tests now.  My board is supported as I have been using the Dynamix System Temp plugin for a while.

 

I have Min. set to 35C and Max. at 40C.  Right now, the fans are running at 300RPM (9%).  I am streaming a movie in Plex and the drive is at 34C.  I'll run another parity check a little later to see how it responds as parity temps increase over time.

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It looks like Autofan is doing its job.  When the first drive exceeded 35C, fan speed increased to ~1000 RPM , when all drives hit 35C, fan speed was increased to ~1500 RPM, as temps rose another 1C fan speed increased to ~2000 rpm, then to 2350, and, finally, to full speed when parity hit 40C.

 

Interestingly, the Noctuas supposedly have a max RPM of 1500.  Since I have two connected with the Noctua Y cable to the front fan header on the MB, I wonder if the reported RPM is the combined RPM of both since anything above 1500 is faster than the fans are supposed to spin.

 

After ending the parity check, the fans slowed down in steps until returning to ~300 RPM when all drives were idle and spun down.

 

The only "negative" side effect is that while the drive cage fans are spinning at lower RPM, the CPU temp is higher than usual (nothing outrageous but noticeably higher) as there is reduced airflow through the case.  The bottom intake fan helped as well as it blows upwards over the MB/CPU.  I'll find a quieter fan for the intake and see what impact that has.

 

Basically, my issues are resolved and I have achieved good fan control based on drive temps.

 

With the Noctuas on the drive cage, a Be Quiet SIlent Wings 3 on the rear exhaust and the Enermax disconnected, the system is very quiet now.

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The Enermax makes a big difference in CPU temps.  Since I have no PCIe cards installed at this time, the bottom intake fan is basically acting as a secondary CPU cooler since there is unobstructed (except for a few cables) airflow from the intake up to the CPU.  I plugged the Enermax back in to test this theory and after about 15 minutes the CPU idle temp had dropped 7C.

Edited by Hoopster
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On 10/27/2018 at 6:20 PM, Hoopster said:

It looks like Autofan is doing its job.  When the first drive exceeded 35C, fan speed increased to ~1000 RPM , when all drives hit 35C, fan speed was increased to ~1500 RPM, as temps rose another 1C fan speed increased to ~2000 rpm, then to 2350, and, finally, to full speed when parity hit 40C.

 

Interestingly, the Noctuas supposedly have a max RPM of 1500.  Since I have two connected with the Noctua Y cable to the front fan header on the MB, I wonder if the reported RPM is the combined RPM of both since anything above 1500 is faster than the fans are supposed to spin.

 

After ending the parity check, the fans slowed down in steps until returning to ~300 RPM when all drives were idle and spun down.

 

The only "negative" side effect is that while the drive cage fans are spinning at lower RPM, the CPU temp is higher than usual (nothing outrageous but noticeably higher) as there is reduced airflow through the case.  The bottom intake fan helped as well as it blows upwards over the MB/CPU.  I'll find a quieter fan for the intake and see what impact that has.

 

Basically, my issues are resolved and I have achieved good fan control based on drive temps.

 

With the Noctuas on the drive cage, a Be Quiet SIlent Wings 3 on the rear exhaust and the Enermax disconnected, the system is very quiet now.

I don't remember if any other y cables came with the noctuas but the one I'm using only senses rpm on one of the fans. I think it's this cable: Noctua NA-YC1 Fan 4-Pin Y-Cable. But that's plugged into a 4-pin pwm fan header. Definately would get another fan for the lower intake.

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25 minutes ago, dmacias said:

I don't remember if any other y cables came with the noctuas but the one I'm using only senses rpm on one of the fans. I think it's this cable: Noctua NA-YC1 Fan 4-Pin Y-Cable. But that's plugged into a 4-pin pwm fan header. Definately would get another fan for the lower intake.

I am also using the NA-YC1 cable that came with the fans and it is plugged into a 4-pin PWM header on the MB.  Fan speeds reported by Autofan/System Temp plugins must not be accurate because at full speed it is showing ~2700 RPM on 1500 RPM fans.  It's not a huge deal as the speed scaling is clearly happening in reaction to temperature increases/decrease.

 

I have installed a Cougar Vortex CF-V12H fan on the bottom intake and the system remains quiet and relatively cool.

 

I installed the "noisy" Enermax on my water cooler radiator on a desktop PC (The Silentwings 3 was originally there) and it does not sound nearly as loud on that PC.  Sound and temps are good.  I think I have finally found a fan combination that maximizes cooling and minimizes noise in the CS380.

 

Thanks again for detailed documentation on your modifications in this case.  It has been a tremendous help.

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  • 4 weeks later...

In addition to making the airflow mods recommended by dmacias in the first posts, below is what I ended up putting in my Silverstone CS380 case:

 

My existing main server (see specs in signature)

 

Athena Power 5.25" to 4 2.5" SSD Backplane - Converts a 5.25" bay to 4 hot-swap bay for 2.5" SSDs (or HDDs) - $43

LG WH16NS40 - UHD/Blu-Ray/DVD reader/writer for ripping discs with MakeMKV - $72

 

Fans:

Noctua NF-F12 (2) on the hard drive hot-swap cage - $20 ea. (controlled by Autofan plugin which varies speed by HDD temp)

Cougar Vortex CF-V12H - bottom intake fan -$12 (I have a 7-volt low-noise adapter on this fan)

Be Quiet Silent Wings 3 120mm -  rear exhaust fan - $22

 

Cables:

Corsair Type 4 Peripheral Cable - power to the hot-swap drive bays - $8

(Silverstone recommends two separate Molex power cables - I used the one that came with the Corsair SF450 PSU plus the additional cable)

Sabrent Molex to 2 SATA - adapter for powering the optical drive and SSD enclosure in the 5.25" bays - $7

Cablemod 24-pin ATX Extension - the PSU cable was too short in this case - $13

 

It's a great setup and I now have room for additional HDDs/SSDa and larger motherboards compared to my prior setup in the excellent Lian-Li PC-Q25 Mini-ITX case.

Edited by Hoopster
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  • 1 month later...

Hi Folks,

 

I've also got this case and had another idea re cooling the HDDs. What would happen if I also close off the HDD cage on the right hand side with duct-tape, so no hot air could escape to the area below the mainboard (right hand section between mainboard and side panel). As I have blocked off the back of the cage and the side, the only way out for the hot air (with high air pressure) would be to the front (or back to the fans plus anything leaking). I know it's blocked by the trays, but it might be enough to make a difference? Just an idea..

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 year later...

thanks to dmacias and hoopster, I was about to purchase this case its got very rare and limited stock worldwide. It certainly looked too good to be true with 8 hot swap drives at that price, am quite frankly surprised it had bad hdd temps and it requires this level of modding to get it done right cooling wise.

 

I think ill save myself the much needed $$$$ and modding work on it and find better cases or solutions, its impressive the mods you have done.

 

I may look at a simple atx case and wack an icy dock vortex with back pane in and have a few non hot swap drives.

 

 

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1 hour ago, reboot47 said:

I think ill save myself the much needed $$$$ and modding work on it and find better cases or solutions, its impressive the mods you have done.

 

Yeah, if you can find a case that better meets your needs, go for it! No need to mess around if you really do not need/want to.

 

For me, it was worth it.  The mods were basically some duct tape and cutting back the lip on the bottom of the disk hot swap bay to allow a bottom fan.  For that, I got 8 front-accessible hot-swap drives which has been a major convenience for me. 

 

I do not anticipate ever needing more than 8 data/parity drives as I prefer to keep the number of disks low and increase capacity with larger disks.

 

I usually always replace the stock case fans on any case with Noctua and other high-level fans anyway so I don't consider that a "mod."

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20 hours ago, Hoopster said:

Yeah, if you can find a case that better meets your needs, go for it! No need to mess around if you really do not need/want to.

 

For me, it was worth it.  The mods were basically some duct tape and cutting back the lip on the bottom of the disk hot swap bay to allow a bottom fan.  For that, I got 8 front-accessible hot-swap drives which has been a major convenience for me. 

 

I do not anticipate ever needing more than 8 data/parity drives as I prefer to keep the number of disks low and increase capacity with larger disks.

 

I usually always replace the stock case fans on any case with Noctua and other high-level fans anyway so I don't consider that a "mod."

 

The mods are what I was hoping to kinda avoid, but I guess with some work it can be done. Will have a good think about it, It is very well priced and a joy to have those 8 front accessible drives though. I did also think of the same idea dmacias had with adding some drilled air vent holes on the other side of the hdd cage to allow better air flow in and out, not sure if its needed or over kill.

 

Going the Icy dock route, well there bit flimsy and plastic and still need to find the old style cases with multiple 5.25 bays which almost don't exist anymore, although missed an antec 900 for 40 quid the other day !

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, reboot47 said:

I did also think of the same idea dmacias had with adding some drilled air vent holes on the other side of the hdd cage to allow better air flow in and out, not sure if its needed or over kill.

That might actually have a negative impact on air flow.  Air coming through the hard drive cage is forced back under and over the motherboard and then vented out the back.  I found that my motherboard/CPU temps were helped a little by increased fan speed blowing more air through the HDD bays.

 

I increased the fan speed through HDD cages even at low HDD temps and with HDDs spun down in order to maintain a better airflow pattern through the case.

 

I did also drill the holes in the plastic insert in one of the HDD bays.

 

My server is in the warmest room in the house thanks to the presence of other computers (space heaters) and a southern exposure.  The mods (yes, it's a pain to have to do them, but, they are cheap and easy) did make a significant difference to component temps in the case and the HDD temps are now quite reasonable (they range from 32 to maybe 44C on the parity drive during a parity check). Warm, yes; too hot, no; especially in this warm room.

 

There is an extra cost to Icy Dock (or similar) hot-swap cages as well and sometimes some case mods are also needed to properly accommodate them. I am certainly not trying to dissuade you from this route.  Just make sure you look at all the options closely and that you pick the one that best meets your needs long term.

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If its helpful, attached is a photo of my server.  I am using 5 of the 8 HDD bays currently.

 

One of the reasons I eventually went with the case was the two 5.25" bays above the hot-swap HDD bays.

 

I have an optical drive (for MakeMKV) in one and a 4 x 2.5" SSD (or HDD, but why?) hot-swap adapter in the other.  It just seemed like a very nice mix of drives I could put in the case with all accessible from the front.

 

Disregard the tape over the power button light.  It is so bright that is really affected the photo so I had to slap some tape on it :)  Fortunately, with the door closed it is not an issue.

IMG_2284[1].JPG

Edited by Hoopster
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31 minutes ago, Hoopster said:

If its helpful, attached is a photo of my server.  I am using 5 of the 8 HDD bays currently.

 

One of the reasons I eventually went with the case was the two 5.25" bays above the hot-swap HDD bays.

 

I have an optical drive (for MakeMKV) in one and a 4 x 2.5" SSD (or HDD, but why?) hot-swap adapter in the other.  It just seemed like a very nice mix of drives I could put in the case with all accessible from the front.

 

Disregard the tape over the power button light.  It is so bright that is really affected the photo so I had to slap some tape on it :)  Fortunately, with the door closed it is not an issue.

IMG_2284[1].JPG

 

 

Did not consider the negative air flow, it sure is tricky like you say many cases need some modding was just looking at the Zalman

zm-ms1000 which looked decent but also suffers some air flow issues. 

 

My 8tb WD red is currently sitting @ 45c @ idle, but in my room it's a hot 30c, and this red has some slight air flow but not fully, its kind of like how the 2 fans blow against the side of the hdd cage on the silverstone case. I do like the idea of air flowing fully at the front and pushing the hot air away from the hdds and being expelled from that back or top though so like the icy dock cage design, I always found this gave much low hdd temps in previous cases.

 

What are your 8tb red and 8TB HGST NAS Parity temps roughly at the moment ?

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, reboot47 said:

What are your 8tb red and 8TB HGST NAS Parity temps roughly at the moment ?

Parity and the two hard drives that are active are all at 36C.  A show is being recorded on one drive (that's why parity is spun up) and another show is streaming from the other.  Looks like I have a computer backup process going as well from my desktop to the server.

 

Room ambient temp is around 25C

Edited by Hoopster
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16 minutes ago, reboot47 said:

I do like the idea of air flowing fully at the front and pushing the hot air away from the hdds and being expelled from that back or top though so like the icy dock cage design, I always found this gave much low hdd temps in previous cases.

My prior case had this airflow design with a 140mm intake fan blowing air through the drives and air vented at the back through the top.

 

Frankly, with what I have done with the Silverstone case, my HDD temps are overall lower than in the prior Lian-Li case.  In that case, Parity temps frequently were in the the 45-49C range and data drive temps hit 42-43C during extensive use.  The parity drive is 7200 RPM so it runs a bit hotter than the 5400 RPM Reds.

 

I rarely ever see a data drive in the 40s except during several hours into my 16-17 hour parity checks when all drives are spun up and generating heat together.  Usually, they are in the mid to high 30s with normal use.  A normal temp for the parity drive in a parity check is 43-44C

 

Maximizing case airflow and minimizing heat is always an art more than a science as there are so many different variables (equipment, case placement, fans, ambient temp, etc.) in any situation.

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cheers that is still much better temps then what I get, very true with perfecting air flow. I think all in all my only choice for budget, ease of use later on the CS380 is still the best choice, so many other great cases are either end of life or designed for micro atx builds. Really figured we would be spoilt for choice given the popularity of servers/nas but guess not quite there.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, reboot47 said:

Really figured we would be spoilt for choice given the popularity of servers/nas but guess not quite there.

There are several good choices if you want to go Mini-ITX, but, once you get to full ATX (and to some extent even mATX) the options for cases that can hold a lot of hard drives are minimal unless you want rack mount.  I do not want rack mount. 

 

Since the Antec 900/1200 and other similar cases with 5.25" bays began disappearing, there are not a lot of good non-rack-mount options unless you want really large cases or are willing to make some often significant compromises.

 

UPDATE:  You might find this post interesting.

Edited by Hoopster
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Appears heat or too much hot hard drives causing hdd failure is a bit of an old wives tale as long as it's not too hot (60c+):

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/9p0hii/safe_hard_drive_operating_temperature/

 

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-temperature-does-it-matter/

 

Even google said they did a test on their data servers and found heat was not the cause of hdd failures.

 

I would however still feel better keeping the hdds running cool in its 30s & 40s is fine, maybe towards mid 50s get better cooling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, reboot47 said:

Appears heat or too much hot hard drives causing hdd failure is a bit of an old wives tale as long as it's not too hot (60c+)

As I understand things, its not the heat itself that kills them (as long as they are in the recommended range); it's wild temperature fluctuations. 

 

It's actually better to have HDDs running constantly at 55C than going from the 20s or low 30s to the 50s several times a day. 

 

The HDDs in my server do spin down after one hour of inactivity, but, the temp swings are usually only a max of 15C from idle to "hot" under heavy use and around only 10C or less from idle to light-to-moderate use.  Fortunately those temp swings are not frequent or extreme.

 

To date, I have never had a hard drive fail in an unRAID server and I am still using the original drives from 8-9 years ago (3TB reds) in my backup server.

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Query for CS380 owners : did owners consider trying to use 140mm > 120mm fan adaptor converters on the inside of the hdd cage (2 fans)and even maybe on the outside of it (bottom (intake) and one on back(external) you could mount the fan on the outside maybe.

 

140mm fans have better air flow and the improved silence, so this maybe worth a mod.

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