riccume Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I'm new to building unRAID servers and after a decent amount of studying on this fantastic forum I've come up with the following configuration. Any thoughts? I'm looking for a simple media server (the main goal is ripping my 800+ DVD collection; additionally I'll use it for daily incremental back-ups of my PC) which is compact and looks OK (it will be sitting in a corner of the living room). Something like the Acer Aspire easyStore H340, but using unRAID. Liam Li PC-Q8 Intel D510MO 4 port PCI-internal SATA adapter (the Intel mobo comes with only two SATA I/Os; mITX mobos with more I/Os seem to be much more expensive) 2GB RAM Antec 380W EarthWatts Green Thoughts?? Thank you! Link to comment
queeg Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 How many hdd's are you planning on having? If more than 3 then the 4 port PCI adapter will choke the drives attached to it if more than one is active at a time. You would be better off with a mobo with a PCIe slot. If you pick a mobo with 4 sata ports then a 2port PCI adapter would be less of a potential problem because less opportunity for the two drives on it to be active at the same time than on a 4 port. That psu can handle 7 or 8 drives. So it's good for the case you chose. Link to comment
riccume Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Thank you queeg, I wasn't aware of this limitation. I'm planning to use up to 5 HDDs. Any suggestions on a mITX board with more SATA I/Os? On dabs.com (I'm based in the UK) I found the Zotac Intel Atom D510 DDR2 DTX, which has 6 SATA + 1 eSATA - any opinion? Thanks! Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 The Zotac is a pretty nice board. Should work fine if it fits in that case correctly. As for PCI vs PCIe. For a small system, the PCI bottleneck isn't that much of an issue. If you go that route, choose a card and board capable of PCI 2.3 with a 66Mhz bus. (it might be difficult getting one to meet those specs). I have an MSI board from logic supply and using a Promise TX4 on the PCI bus proves to be satisfactory. Still, it would be better to go with 6 sata ports on the motherboard. Keep looking in that direction. Link to comment
bcbgboy13 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Be wary with this particular Zotac board as there are some troubling reviews like these ones: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813500048 The "6 SATA" ports may be visible or not... so if you wan only 5 HD ( your case will support up to 7 HD) you can get cheaper 4 SATA ports motherboard and one el-cheapo PCI or PCI-e card 2-ports controller. Someone here just tested Gigabyte (be aware of potential HPA problems with this brand) miniITX board - it is under $100 in the USA. Link to comment
queeg Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I looked at the manual for the Lian Li PC-Q8. Not many pictures to get a good idea from. Looks like the mobo mounts on the side which is then tipped up and screwed on? Have a look at the Foxconn G41S-K. It's about 1/2 inch wider than a mini-ITX but same height. It might just fit. If so then you could use a PCIe sata card. Put a Celeron D 420 to mimic an Atom cpu. Weebotech, wouldn't this Syba SY-PEX40013 card be a better performer with 4 drives attached than a 4 port PCI card? Link to comment
riccume Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Thanks guys. Another option seems to be this Point of View Atom 510 mobo http://www.ebuyer.com/product/200878 with 2 x SATA + PCIe slot. (I like the mobo with integrated CPU, I'd like to keep it very simple). The Gigabyte you bcbgboy13 mention (GA-D510UD) also looks good. I'm not familiar with the HPA problem - does it mean that I won't be able to clone a disk? Anything else? Link to comment
queeg Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 That's a microATX motherboard. If you do end up with just a PCI slot then this sd-89300656 might work for you. Link to comment
riccume Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Right, it should have been this one: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/200893 time for bed. I'd say that so far the Gigabyte wins with the 4 integrated SATA; though now I wonder about this HPA issue, also because I just built a HTPC with Gigabyte and I believe I enabled the option "Backup BIOS Image to HDD". I seem to understand that as long as I leave this option disables I should be fine though. Link to comment
Joe L. Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I'm not familiar with the HPA problem - does it mean that I won't be able to clone a disk? Anything else? See here: http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=UnRAID_Topical_Index#HPA It is the Gigabyte's BIOS that writes to your hard disks when you least expect it to artificially make them look smaller that they are. It could cripple your ability to recover from a disk failure. If your BIOS has this feature, you want to be certain it is disabled by default... Otherwise, it is a ticking time-bomb for when your CMOS battery dies and the next time you boot up it changes the size of one of your disks because your bios has it enabled by default. (causing unRAID to think it is a different disk than before). Link to comment
aiden Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 It amazes me that this (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0) board still goes unmentioned. Low power, 6 SATA, PCIe x16, Intel NICs, IPMI, server build quality. There is a valid argument using for i3 based systems instead of the D510 Atoms, but unless you're planning on doing a lot of CPU related tasks that have nothing to do with file serving or unRAID, the Atom is plenty fast. Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 It amazes me that this (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0) board still goes unmentioned. Low power, 6 SATA, PCIe x16, Intel NICs, IPMI, server build quality. There is a case for i3 based systems instead of the D510 Atoms, but unless you're planning on doing a lot of CPU related tasks that have nothing to do with file serving or unRAID, the Atom is plenty fast. I like the Supermicro board the best. I did not mention because there have been many people that balk at the pricing and memory layout. Frankly with the solid stability and IPMI management, it does make for a great NAS. If I build another in this case though, I'm probably going to go for a board that also supports XBMC so I can merge the two capabilities. Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 At $220 it's not a bargain. For those who do not want to dedicated a keyboard and monitor, but still want full control, it is a good solution. I've been using supermicro boards for years, they are rock solid. Link to comment
queeg Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 For sure the Supermicro brand carries respect. I don't think that IPMI is a high priority for a living room nas. Seems like $100 of that could go towards a hard drive or some other part of the server. It might be just me but I still think mini-ITX carries a pretty high perceived-value premium. Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 For sure the Supermicro brand carries respect. I don't think that IPMI is a high priority for a living room nas. Seems like $100 of that could go towards a hard drive or some other part of the server. If you do not want to use a local monitor and keyboard and you want to put it in the corner. I do. That board will easily support 14 drives at a later point with a tested and proven Supermicro SASLP controller. The motherboard has been tested and proven by members of the board including limetech. It's not brand respect that you're paying for, it's remote manageability, stability and a proven platform. We're at different ends of the spectrum. You build machines at the absolute lowest cost. I build them as reliable and easily manageable as possible. We're always going to disagree. Link to comment
queeg Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 For sure the Supermicro brand carries respect. I don't think that IPMI is a high priority for a living room nas. Seems like $100 of that could go towards a hard drive or some other part of the server. If you do not want to use a local monitor and keyboard and you want to put it in the corner. I do. That board will easily support 14 drives at a later point with a tested and proven Supermicro SASLP controller. The motherboard has been tested and proven by members of the board including limetech. It's not brand respect that you're paying for, it's remote manageability, stability and a proven platform. We're at different ends of the spectrum. You build machines at the absolute lowest cost. I build them as reliable and easily manageable as possible. We're always going to disagree. It's not so much as a disagreement as it is that we place different values on certain features. I've been a fan of Shuttles for 10 years. More consumer oriented SFF. I think you're involved in the intrumentation of servers more than me so you see that IPMI value as being of higher value than I would. As the mini-ITX market begins to appeal to more people the cost will come down and that draws in cost conscience buyers like me. I'm willing to pay a premium to reduce case size as long as it's competitive feature wise with the next size bigger. For me, $220 is an unnecessary premium whether it's mini-ITX or microATX or full ATX. I wouldn't say I build at the absolute lowest cost. What I do is find a level of quality I want and then shop around to find lower cost. I don't buy junk. It's like the difference of buying a luxury car to get the 8-way adjustable seats. I don't care about that feature so I'll spend the difference on something else I like. Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 unRAID is a server. Where the IPMI helps is when there is difficulty. your server stops working for some unknown reason. The next step is accessing the console. It's all there. a browser away. If there are questions about the health of the hardware that is visible from IPMI. When other factors are added in, the low cost boards start to come up in price in terms of additional controllers being required and/or questions as to use, support and/or reliability. The cost of the board may not be a bargain, yet there is value when the vendor of the software validates a hardware platform. The model without IPMI is $180. Link to comment
riccume Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Thanks guys! I think I'm leaning towards the configuration below. Only problem now is that the Lian Li PC-Q08 in black cannot be found anywhere in the UK! (overclockers UK is the only website carrying it, but it is out of stock). Bummer! Liam Li PC-Q8 Gigabyte GA-D510UD (seems to be good enough for what I need, and will make sure to disable the HPA) 2GB RAM Antec 380W EarthWatts Green Will keep this post updated. Link to comment
riccume Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 OK, all good, found the case on Amazon. In case it might be useful for somebody else here you are with the final tally: - Liam Li PC-Q8 Black amazon.co.uk, £102.04 - Gigabyte GA-D510UD cube247.co.uk, £77.76 - 2GB RAM (Hynix 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-5300F) ebay.co.uk, £23.98 - Antec 380W EarthWatts Green (£99.99) - Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green SATA300 64MB (£38.08) dabs.com, £138.07 Total: £341.85 Thanks guys! Link to comment
Kaygee Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 Ebuyer want £40 for that PSU and £101 for those drives. Should save you some money. I think you'll get free postage too. Link to comment
riccume Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Thanks Kaygee, I got it the wrong way round: - Antec 380W EarthWatts Green (£38.08) - Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green SATA300 64MB (£99.99) Free shipping Link to comment
Carpet3 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Guess i'm too late for this now anyway but i'll add this: I tested this board to level 1 and it was fine although nobody has actually confirmed that by checking my syslog (hint hint) http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6496.0 I've also done some benchmarking with the board using various operating systems including unRAID (note: please read how I did these tests, they do not necessarily represent of what you will likely achieve, just a comparison of different operating systems using the same setup) http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=188078 Link to comment
Joe L. Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 Guess i'm too late for this now anyway but i'll add this: I tested this board to level 1 and it was fine although nobody has actually confirmed that by checking my syslog (hint hint) http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=6496.0 I've also done some benchmarking with the board using various operating systems including unRAID (note: please read how I did these tests, they do not necessarily represent of what you will likely achieve, just a comparison of different operating systems using the same setup) http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=188078 Before you make your final decision as to which OS you use, take into consideration the task of expanding the array, either by replacing a smaller disk with a larger one, or adding a disk to an existing array. It might make it easier to come to a final decision. For many raid implementations, it is copy the data elsewhere, break the array, add the new drive, create the new array, restore from the backup. That's easy for some, but how many have a redundant server of equal size to use for the temporary copy. Some raid implementations can easily be expanded in place. (unRAID is one of them) Others cannot. Some need all the disks to be identical in size, others do not. For those reasons unRAID is my choice. Oh yes, great graphs... Link to comment
Carpet3 Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I haven't updated that yet, but i've pretty much decided on unRAID. The ability to drop in different sized hard drives is just too good to pass up. I was toying with the idea of FreeNAS using ZFS but it's still listed as experimental so I dont fancy that much. Go read my syslog Link to comment
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