Need your advice on a new unRAID setup

[Yarok]

The beginning of this thread is all about recycling older material. For the the new subject, please jump here

 

Hello everybody,

 

I’m currently using two main computers, one for work and play, and a second acting as a server (a good ol' WinXP machine with shared partitions) – plus a third HTPC running XBMC in the living room

 

I’m about to do a major hardware update anytime soon, and i'd like to recycle my current configuration and use the main parts to make an unRAID server – the base of this server being an Asus A8N-VM CSM mobo + Athlon 3500, 2x1gb RAM, hdds from the current setup and a new pair of 1to, to get things going.

 

As a start i’d have a 3.58Tb, six hdd configuration as follows:

 

1x1Tb sATA for parity

2x1Tb sATA data

2x250Gb ATA

1x80Gb ATA

 

It all seems rather straightforward to configure, but one question i ask myself would be about the PSU since I already have a good Enermax 350W PSU that i could recycle. Could this be enough to power up a configuration of this size, or would 450w be safer

 

Thanks for your advice/ideas!

[Rajahal]

First of all, don't trust your motherboard with important data until you have done some extensive testing on it.  Your motherboard uses the nForce 430 chipset, which has caused some users to have data corruption and other issues.  See here for more info.  However, I recently tested a modern miniITX board that uses the same chipset and it works just fine, so you may be OK.  You can follow the advise others gave me in testing my nForce 430 board.

 

As for your primary question, we need more information.  Are you drives 5400 RPM, 5900 RPM, 7200 RPM, or even faster?  This will affect how much power they need.  Also, older IDE drives (which use the ATA connector) will need more power as well.  If you can afford it, I would recommend that you combine all your IDE drives into a single green SATA drive, such as a 1 TB WD EARS.  This will save power and could increase your parity check/data rebuild speeds.

[Yarok]

By extensive testing, do you mean used as a unRAID server or as a regular computer? Because i've been working daily with this mobo for over 4 years without a single glitch. Edit: sorry, should have check your link

 

As for the drives speed, they're all 7200rpm. Eventually i'd combine the older drives in a single big new one, but right now the initial budget is quite high already. The server would not be on 24/7, so the total consumption isn't a big deal - i'm more concerned about the system working correctly with a PSU powerful enough to handle it

 

I guess it'd make more sense first to upgrade the PSU to provide a good basis for the future expansion of the system

[Rajahal]

I mean testing it as an unRAID server.  The incompatibility with the nForce 4 series chipsets that some users have encountered is with unRAID/linux directly.  I don't doubt that your motherboard has worked fine in a Windows computer.  Generally speaking, older boards with the nForce 4 series chipsets have been problematic, whereas newer boards have been OK.  This is why I worry about your board, since it is an older model.

 

According to this PSU Calculator, the 350 W PSU you already have should be fine.  However, you still may want to consider replacing it just for the sake of getting a more efficient model.  For your case, I would probably recommend this Corsair 430W.

 

You could always use the 350W for now and just keep an eye on the Good Deals forum.  Then when a good PSU deal comes along, you can grab it and replace your 350W.  For example, I recently bought this Antec NEO ECO 400W for $30 on sale.

[WeeboTech]

I already have a good Enermax 350W PSU that i could recycle.

 

The enermax should be ok, but it may be on the edge of it's power availability.

What model is it?

 

FWIW, I've had a dual PIII 2GB, 8 HDD's SCSI and IDE work on a 300w PSU.

as a safe over estimation, Take the total drives, multiply it by 2.

Then factor in Mobo and CPU. if your +12V line is beefy enough you are good.

 

So if you have 18a on a 12v line it will probably be ok.

If you plan to transcode and do a parity check at the same time, it may be on the edige and have unexpected results.

[Yarok]

damn'... and i thought, reading the A8N info in the Mobo chapter of the Hardware compatibility wiki, that my A8N would do

 

The Enermax is a PFC EG365AX-VE!

[Rajahal]

Like I said, it might still work, just test it before trusting any data to it.

[Yarok]

just a thought: can the mobo be tested just by plugging a usb key with unRAID, but without mounting any drive? edit: i know the main purpose is for the system to function correctly with mounted drives, but i was thinking about a sort of compatibility check or something...

 

Also, is there a specific series of tests one should do in orer to make sure the system is sound and reliable?

[BRiT]

No, not in this case.

 

The nForce chipsets have been reported to corrupt data when under heavy usage. In order to test it, you need to simulate heavy usage.

[Yarok]

yeah that's what i thought

 

Thanks a lot for your support though, helped me a lot!

[Yarok]

As things turns out, i figured i'd rather put together a new server with dedicated hardware instead of salvaging and recycling my current hardware. After all, i need free hdd space more than i need a powerful game computer right now.

 

Here's the configuration i had in mind:

 

Motherboard M4a785-m

CPU Amd Sempron 140 2.7 Ghz Pib Socket Am3 1mb 45w

RAM 1gb 667mhz Ddr2 Non-ecc Cl5 Dimm

Power Supply Atx 450w

 

as for the drives:

WD Caviar Green Power Hard Drive 1tb 3.5in Sata 5400rpm With 64mb Buffer

Hard Drive Spinpoint Ecogreen F2 1tb Int Sata-ii 32mb

Hard Drive Barracuda 7200.12 1tb Sata 7200rpm 32mb

Samsung Spinpoint F1 1To SATA II 7200 RPM 32Mo

 

I guess the 450w single rail PSU would be enough. I'm still debating the mobo - although this one has 6 SATA connectors, i'd like to find a good (preferably low cost) SATA2 alternative. Any idea?

[Rajahal]

That mobo is perfectly fine.  You can find cheaper ones for $50-60, so if saving a few bucks matters to you then keep shopping around.  I really like Biostar boards, but Asus is good too.  This thread has quite a few to choose from.  They should all work, but not all of them have been tested yet.

 

What brand of PSU did you choose?  You mentioned single rail, so that's good.

 

Also, do you have jumper on your WD Green drive?  You need one on pins 7&8 for it to work with unRAID.

[Yarok]

Oops, forgot to mention that - the psu would be this Corsair 450 VX.

 

I kept on looking for alternatives and came across you post, Raj, but Biostar is not very common here in Belgium. Since i already had Asus mobos in the past (with satisfaction), i'll stick with this one:)

 

About the WD Green jumper, i still have to make the purchase but i guess it is simply a question of placing said jumper. Thanks a lot for pointing this out!!

[Rajahal]

Do you already have that PSU, or are you buying it new?  If you already have it, great, use it.  If you are buying it new, beware - a few months ago a lot of Corsair PSUs had a problem with squealing under load.  The VX and HX series were both affected.  I do not know if this issue has been resolved yet or not.  You may want to check with the vendor first to make sure it is ok, or just do your own research and find out if the issue has been resolved yet or not (I expect it has by now).

 

Installing the jumper is very easy, I still recommend WD EARS drives.

[Yarok]

thanks again for your help Raj. I don't have the psu already, i'm still listing the parts i'll need so it's all good.

 

I don't know if the vendor will be aware of Corsair's problems under such particular conditions, and even if they would, would i trust them?

 

Anyway, I could easily find another PSU, like this OCZ ModXStream Pro in 500W, it's around the same price-range (on a sidenote, if only we had such a site as newegg 'round here... ).

 

oh i forgot, i suppose it would make more sense to put a 7200rpm as parity drive, rather than a 5400rpm?

[Rajahal]

I don't know if the vendor will be aware of Corsair's problems under such particular conditions, and even if they would, would i trust them?

 

Good point.  Maybe contact Corsair?  Then again, who knows if you can trust them either...

 

Anyway, I could easily find another PSU, like this OCZ ModXStream Pro in 500W, it's around the same price-range (on a sidenote, if only we had such a site as newegg 'round here... ).

 

That PSU has dual +12V rails, so it is not a good replacement.  I recommend Antec's NEO ECO line if you can find one of those.  They ship without power cables, which is a bit annoying, but you can scavenge one from an old PSU or buy one at any electronics shop.

 

oh i forgot, i suppose it would make more sense to put a 7200rpm as parity drive, rather than a 5400rpm?

 

That depends on your usage.  Generally speaking, the answer is yes, but you will only see a benefit if you do multiple simultaneous writes to the server.  If you only ever write to one disk at a time, then there won't be any benefit from using a 7200 rpm drives instead of a 5400 rpm drive.  In practice, the difference is barely noticeable anyway, so I wouldn't bother with it.

[Yarok]

Hello everyone.

 

Allow me to update this old topic of mine regarding a new setup - as life went on, i had to leave this matter on the side (by lack of time, mainly).

 

Anyway, more than two years passed and i'm evaluating an unRAID NAS again. Hardware has changed since then, obviously, so i kindly request your advice regarding the following setup. The links provided point directly to the shop where i plan to purchase the hardware, but hopefully they should provide enough info.

 

Here goes:

 

Motherboard MSI H51 MA-E35 (B3)

CPU Intel Celeron G540 with stock fan

RAM 2x Kingston HyperX 2GB DDR3-1333

PSU OCZ ModXStream Pro 500W (salvaged from a previous setup - Raj already gave me a negative feed back about this PSU (see previous post), but i'm afraid i'll have to stick with this one for the time being)

unRAID would be installed on a 4GB Kingston DataTraveller G3

 

The array i'm planning to build would include 4x 1To + 1x 2To for parity (most of the hdd are WD Greens) as i'm planning to gradually swap the 1To Greens to 2To Reds later on.

 

Aside from the general compatibility of all components with unRAID, i had a question regarding RAM and CPU speed: the Celeron G540 handles 1066Mhz rambus speed, but the cheapest and most reliable ram available on the seller's shop is the Kingston Hyper X 1333Mhz type. I assume that the 1333Mhz RAM will simply be underclocked by the CPU, making it run at 1066Mhz, is this correct?

 

I'll have to keep the budget as tight as possible. My main reason for creating a new setup is that my older file server runs on a mobo that only has three SATA ports (Asrock Dual Sata2).

 

Thanks a lot for your help!

[Ford Prefect]

That mobo only has 4 SATA ports with the Intel chipset.

The other 2 are ASMEDIA...I don't know if they will work with unRAID.

What about a B75 chipset mobo?...like this: http://www.alternate.be/html/product/MSI/B75MA-P45/998211/? (seems to have 6x SATA on B75 and same NIC as your initial choice)

 

The Hyper-X RAM should do fine with lower modes, I think.

Your 500W+ PSU should serve 5 green drives on one of its rails just fine

[Yarok]

Hi Ford,

 

Thanks for your reaction.

 

Are you positive about the SATA/Asmedia point? I mean, the official product specs mentions 4 SATA II ports and 2 SATA III ports but nothing over Asmedia ports (the B75 seems to be an alternative none the less).

 

And thank you for the RAM and PSU remarks

[Ford Prefect]

Yes, I am positive about that. The H51 H61 board makes use of two different chipsets to supply the SATA ports.

You can see it in the detailed specs under the same link you provided.

 

Edit: and it is listed in the detailed specs of the MSI site as well

On-Board SATA 

• SATAII controller integrated in Intel® H61 (B3) chipset
- Up to 3Gb/s transfer speed.
- Supports four SATAII ports (SATA1~4) by H61 (B3) PCH

• SATAIII controller integrated in Asmedia® 1061 chipset
- Up to 6Gb/s transfer speed.
- Supports two SATAIII ports (SATA5~6)

[Ford Prefect]

...also, the Realtek NIC is a potential problem, too.

Good thing is, you can add an Intel NIC later (add approx 25EUR to your budget)

You also might be limited to a specific unRAID version, like the V5-rc5-r1868, which includes the drver but is from the unstable branch.

[Yarok]

Ok my bad. Thanks again. This does not look too good, all in all. I guess I'll have to make further research for a suitable motherboard

 

The Realtek 8111E is rather common, and i'll need the 6x SATA ports. The whole deal will have to fit the budget... i'll keep on looking ^^

 

How about this ASUS P8B75-M LX? It features 5x SATA 3Gb/s and 1x SATA 6Gb/s so i could use the 5x SATA ports from the same chipset, plus a Realtek RTL8111F-VB-CG NIC. The price is sharp, and according to the official specs, the Celeron G540 would be suitable as well.

[Ford Prefect]

This is not with a specific Realtek NIC model...you'll be in need for the driver in any case, I think.

It is just that an Intel NIC is known/reported to be more reliable than the Realtek ones.

Some users do run on Realtek NICs just fine....as said it is a "potential" problem and can be overcome with a PCIe intel NIC

on a  small budget.

 

You could also look for a mobo with an intel NIC on-board, but it might be over your budget.

Another way is to go for an AMD based board which might be a cheaper combo and add an Intel NIC there.

[Ford Prefect]

This is the cheapest intel based mobo with 6x SATA that I could find with a fast search: http://geizhals.at/de/623271

Intels specs: http://www.intel.de/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-dh61be.html

Don't know if it is available in your country and at what price.

 

Edit: here it is at your preferred store: http://www.alternate.be/html/product/Intel®/Desktop_Board_DH61BEB3/828402/?

That'll be 17EUR plus for your budget...cheap for an Intel NIC upgrade ;-)

And it is compatible with the Celeron G540 according to Intels matrix: http://processormatch.intel.com/CompDB/SearchResult.aspx?BoardName=DH61BE

[Yarok]

You're awesome, can't thank you enough for your efforts on this.

 

I'll need another bit of info: you've mentioned that the initial mobo i picked had 4 Intel and 2 Asmedia SATA chipsets. Where does the problem lies? Is it because there are two different chipsets, or is it because one of them is an Asmedia, which hasn't been tested for reliability with unRAID?

 

Cheers!