I shut down the array, added one slot (#14), then added a drive 8tb which was labeled as precleared.  Recieved smart errors right off the bat on the precleared drive - my assumption is that this drive is bad

 

So i stopped the array - now it treats new slot (#14) as if it were a missing disk.

 

Is this normal behavior because the drive was labeled precleared even if the array was only run for a few minutes?

 

Should i just run the array for as is for days or just remove disk 14 - i am assuming that will force a data rebuild?

 

 

Is there an easy way to just go back to the array as it was until i can free up an 8tb drive (probably will take 4 days to get)?

 

I have attached screenshot and diagnostics - look feb 25, 1100 am for problems to start.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

pipe-diagnostics-20200225-1137.zip

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by FrozenGamer

If you added it to the array at all it will be considered missing if you remove it. You'd need to do a new config under tools, and then resync parity.

 

Take a screen shot of the existing device locations and make sure you put them back into the right spots. This is similar to shrinking an array and I've done it a few times.

 

Let me know if you need more direction and I can go into more details if needed.

 

Is there any data on that new disk? You will need to move it off the drive to another drive to save it.

 

https://wiki.unraid.net/Shrink_array

 

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by Chess
Added url

Can i run it for a few days emulating the missing disk and then add an 8 when i get it freed up from another machine?

1 minute ago, FrozenGamer said:

Can i run it for a few days emulating the missing disk and then add an 8 when i get it freed up from another machine?

 

Yes, you have dual parity, so you can lose just one more drive before data loss occurs, but you can run with the disk emulated. My guess is unraid might write to it, in an emulated status, but you will be just fine.

Thanks, wouldn't the shrink array method put the array with no parity backups vs, having the ability to lose 1 drive with the 2nd method? ie less risk of data than a full rebuild of parity?

2 minutes ago, FrozenGamer said:

Thanks, wouldn't the shrink array method put the array with no parity backups vs, having the ability to lose 1 drive with the 2nd method? ie less risk of data than a full rebuild of parity?

 

Well, yea, you'd have to rebuild parity when you shrink the array, but I suspect you are either running a parity sync now, as you added a drive, or you canceled one but still need to run it, as parity was built with 13 data disks, and now that you have 14 (# 14 is emulated) party is invalid now. So you are at risk now either way. If you are going to replace that failed drive in the short term, I'd run a party rebuild/sync now, and then at least you are protected. Then rebuild the new disk when you have it.

26 minutes ago, FrozenGamer said:

Recieved smart errors right off the bat on the precleared drive - my assumption is that this drive is bad

I didn't see any SMART logs for the disk labeled missing.  It may have been a simple bad connection.  You should try inserting the disk again and generating a new diagnostic report. 

 

12 minutes ago, FrozenGamer said:

Can i run it for a few days emulating the missing disk

That is a personal judgement call.... Its whether you feel comfortable running the risk of possibly losing more disks.

 

8 minutes ago, FrozenGamer said:

parity backups

And parity is not backup...

7 minutes ago, Chess said:

Well, yea, you'd have to rebuild parity when you shrink the array, but I suspect you are either running a parity sync now, as you added a drive, or you canceled one but still need to run it, as parity was built with 13 data disks, and now that you have 14 (# 14 is emulated) party is invalid now. So you are at risk now either way. If you are going to replace that failed drive in the short term, I'd run a party rebuild/sync now, and then at least you are protected. Then rebuild the new disk when you have it.

That doesn't seem right... if a precleared disk was added to the array then parity would still be valid. Rebuilding parity with the missing disk would lose any data on that missing emulated disk. if in doubt, do a non-correcting check and see if you have any errors first. But any additional stress on the system with an already emulated disk may cause more to drop.

Edited February 25, 20206 yr by civic95man

4 minutes ago, civic95man said:

That doesn't seem right... if a precleared disk was added to the array then parity would still be valid. Rebuilding parity with the missing disk would lose any data on that missing emulated disk. if in doubt, do a non-correcting check and see if you have any errors first. But any additional stress on the system with an already emulated disk may cause more to drop.

it appears to have parity  - see screenshot.

3 minutes ago, civic95man said:

That doesn't seem right... if a precleared disk was added to the array then parity would still be valid. Rebuilding parity with the missing disk would lose any data on that missing emulated disk. if in doubt, do a non-correcting check and see if you have any errors first. But any additional stress on the system with an already emulated disk may cause more to drop.

 

You might be correct, as the precleared disk would be all 0s, the parity would still be valid as no bits (bytes?) have changed.

 

non-correcting check would be the best way to go either way. 

2 minutes ago, FrozenGamer said:

it appears to have parity  - see screenshot.

 

 

It's un-mountable. I would have though that preclear would put a file system on it for unraid to use. Was it un-mountable when you first put the disk in the array?

 

That's a large array!

1 minute ago, Chess said:

 

It's un-mountable. I would have though that preclear would put a file system on it for unraid to use. Was it un-mountable when you first put the disk in the array?

 

That's a large array!

I am not sure if it was unmountable - i think it might have been asking me to format (which i didn't do) but i don't remember. - 

This is my smaller array - i am waiting for an 8tb to be freed up on my 25 disk 170 TB - That one still has 5's and a lot of 6 TBs and i am pulling the drives and rebuilding to 10/12 - so next drive i pull will be an 8 and i will move it to the problem array.

20 minutes ago, civic95man said:

I didn't see any SMART logs for the disk labeled missing.  It may have been a simple bad connection.  You should try inserting the disk again and generating a new diagnostic report. 

 

That is a personal judgement call.... Its whether you feel comfortable running the risk of possibly losing more disks.

 

And parity is not backup...

I will put the drive in another machine and smart test it - it may be a while until i can safely do that.

2 minutes ago, FrozenGamer said:

I am not sure if it was unmountable - i think it might have been asking me to format (which i didn't do) but i don't remember.

so you had a precleared disk that you inserted into the array but did not format (that one, new, disk)?

1 minute ago, FrozenGamer said:

I am not sure if it was unmountable - i think it might have been asking me to format (which i didn't do) but i don't remember. - 

This is my smaller array - i am waiting for an 8tb to be freed up on my 25 disk 170 TB - That one still has 5's and a lot of 6 TBs and i am pulling the drives and rebuilding to 10/12 - so next drive i pull will be an 8 and i will move it to the problem array.

 

170 TB..... Are you trying to backup the whole internet? 

 

If it was asking to be formatted, then nothing should have been written to it. Either way, get a replacement drive in place as soon as possible. 

1 minute ago, civic95man said:

so you had a precleared disk that you inserted into the array but did not format (that one, new, disk)?

Correct.

1 minute ago, FrozenGamer said:

Correct.

Think thats why it was saying unmountable.. preclear just writes the entire disk with zeros. you still have to format the disk afterwards.  

Just now, civic95man said:

Think thats why it was saying unmountable.. preclear just writes the entire disk with zeros. you still have to format the disk afterwards.  

And thats assuming that you really did insert a precleared disk, got SMART errors on it, and immediately removed it without every formatting it - ie nothing was written to it

And thats assuming that you really did insert a precleared disk, got SMART errors on it, and immediately removed it without every formatting it - ie nothing was written to it

So if that is the case he should be able to do a new config remove that drive and say that parity is valid.

Agree?


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That would seem to be the case, since it seems the drive was never formatted and therefore, nothing was actually written to it.

21 minutes ago, Chess said:

So if that is the case he should be able to do a new config remove that drive and say that parity is valid.

Agree?


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I am a little confused at this point - not sure - My assumption is that it nothing was written to the drive - i should be able to mount it and look right?

It seems that since it wasn't formatted, there was nothing written to it.  With that being said, since it wasn't formatted, it would have no file system on it either since the drive was precleared so you wouldn't be able to mount it

1 hour ago, Chess said:

So if that is the case he should be able to do a new config remove that drive and say that parity is valid.

Agree?


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This screenshot (shows asking to format) would be in line with the theory that it would be ok to do the new config and say parity is valid? Being very cautious here, since i am not 100% sure i would be doing right thing.

7 hours ago, FrozenGamer said:

would be in line with the theory that it would be ok to do the new config and say parity is valid?

Yes, if the new disk was precleared and never formatted then parity is valid without it, still you should run a parity check after the new config.

9 hours ago, johnnie.black said:

Yes, if the new disk was precleared and never formatted then parity is valid without it, still you should run a parity check after the new config.

Thanks Johnnie - just out of curiosity - if i had formatted, but the data mover had not been run (i turned it off for now) - would parity still in theory be good?   I have 21 hours until i have access to a free 8tb hard drive. So i am going to just add it in slot 14, format it and then parity check.

Edited February 26, 20206 yr by FrozenGamer