Taking the plunge with Unraid and a Norco 4224

[Ouze]

Hello all,

 

Well, my coworker talked me into it. I just finished ordering the last of the components I need. I went with:

 

Norco 4224 Case

Supermicro C2SEA-0 Mobo

Celeron E3400 CPU

Corsair 850HX PSU

2gb (2x1) Kingston Valueram

1x AOC-SASLP-MV8 card

Starting with one HDD - WD20EARS

 

I'm relatively familiar with RAID - I ran out of space on an 8 port Areca server, so this will be my upgrade from that. Are there any well known pitfalls I should know about before I build for this hardware? I lurked on the forum some, but nothing really jumped out at me. The other things I know I need to ask:

 

1.) Someone referenced jumpering a WD20EARS to convert it to a WD20EDS. Why would I wish to do this, and how?

 

2.) I didn't yet order any cabling; not 100% sure what the Norco will come with. Is this a mistake?

 

 

Thanks for any advice. I'm pretty excited\nervous about the whole thing.

[grandprix]

Well as you know, the case you ordered is a 24 bay case.  As your build sits, it will support only 14 bays.  I assume this was on purpose, though since you dropped as much as you did, I would (and have) bite the bullet on the other $160 and get another SASLP and the 2 port controller from Monoprice.com (look at Raj's sticky post, which I'm assuming you did anyway).  I just always prefer to have all hardware I plan to use before installing any OS, Linux or not.  That's a personal preference thing of mine though, so.

 

Cabling for your setup AS IT SITS currently, you will need the following:

 

2x House Brand Molex 79576-3007 Mini SAS / SATA Cable (1 Input - 4 outlets)

 

and

 

2x Mini SAS 36 Pin to Mini SAS 36 Pin Cable w/ Nylon Tube

 

If you prefer to go with one source, like Newegg (I prefer to use Newegg no matter what, even if a few bucks higher -- in most cases anyway) then use these links instead:

 

2x ORCO C-SFF8087-4S Discrete to SFF-8087 (Reverse breakout) Cable - OEM

 

and

 

2x NORCO C-SFF8087-D SFF-8087 to SFF-8087 Internal Multilane SAS Cable - OEM

 

If you do decide to gather all hardware for full 24 drive support (mind you only 22 max at this time can be used within an Unraid array) then, you'll need quantities of 2 and 4, respectively (using the two links immediately above this paragraph).

 

The case will not come with any cabling, aside from the button faceplate on the front (reset button, pwr button, etc.) and -maybe- a USB header connection, but mine must be a newer (or older) version and it doesnt have a USB connection on the front.  Aside from that, you'll need all other cabling.

 

I didnt examine the PS yet, will do that soon unless someone beats me to it.. so you may need molex connectors..

 

*Edit: Goofed up quantities slightly

[grandprix]

Ok quick note concerning that PS.  It's kinda big if you plan to stay with all Green HD's.  But, I haven't room to talk, as I plan to stay with mostly greens myself, but I still got a 66A on the 12v rail PS as well.  It's not modular though.  Honestly ~$70 more for modular, eh, if extra cabling is zip tied tight enough and out of the way (which the Norco allows plenty of room to put a zip tied bundle without fear of obstructing air flow to any significant degree), I would save the $70 personally.. and did.  I went with this:

 

SILVERSTONE OP800 800W ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply

 

I've used three Silverstones in the past, rather, still using (besides one, but, that will be a 12 drive server for a friend) and I know their reliability.  Nothing wrong with the ones recommended here, just seems Silverstone has become an unknown of sorts.

 

It allowed the entire backplane to be connected and only requires two 15 pin SATA to 4 pin power molex connectors (for the fans) to be purchased.

 

Either way that PS you linked has no 4 pin power molex's, only SATA, PCIe, Mobo, etc.  According to the pictures and the details that Newegg provides anyway.  This won't work for you unless you plan to run a bunch of conversion pig tails, but that would defeat the purpose imo to use a modular.

 

[grandprix]

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply

 

Is the one in Raj's recommended build for 24 drive beast.  If I was absolutely certain I would run nothing but greens, I would have gone with it for sure, as it has 8 4pin power molex connectors (if I understand it correctly), which is perfect.  6 for the backplanes, 2 for the fans (1 for the fan wall, 1 for the two exhaust fans).

 

Also I just noticed, you're starting with only 1 hard drive?  You'll need two, data and a parity (someone jump in if I'm wrong here, I just never thought of using unraid or any RAID for only one drive).

 

[grandprix]

Concerning my post with the links for the cables.  Use only the second set (the Newegg link) at this time, as I just realized that the one Raj recommends are FORWARD breakout cables, you need REVERSE.

 

If you're going from SATA ports -> SAS Backplane, then reverse are needed.  BUT, those not using a backplane should NOT use reverse for the MVP controller -> SATA drives, those people need a forward breakout.

 

But, seeing you're using the Norco case, you have backplanes, thus, for the 6 ports on the mobo, you need to go from SATA ports -> SAS backplane, which is reverse.

 

 

 

 

[Ouze]

I do know that it would only initially be 14. I planned on adding the second (and then the third) card as needed. But I COULD order them now and have them on hand for the initial build, if there was a reason to do so... Is there? Honest question, not sarcastic; as I said I have literally zero experience with this specific type.

 

So far as the PSU, I know it's a little big, but I plan to, in the future, cannibilize my existing Areca based servers 8x 1tb drives, none of which are green - they are all Seagate 7200rpms. Eventually I will phase those out for 2tb greens but I'd like to squeeze a little more life out of them while I have them anyway.

 

So far as the cables go, I tend to eschew generic type cables as they are typically only fractionally cheaper in price to name brands. That's not the case here; the oem will run $70, and the ones you linked $32. Any real reason to pay the OEM tax, or are the house brand reliable, generally for this application?

 

Finally, I have a pair of 2TB's already just laying around I intend to add to the one I ordered (also not green drives).

 

Thank you again for the advice.

[Rajahal]

Concerning my post with the links for the cables.  Use only the second set (the Newegg link) at this time, as I just realized that the one Raj recommends are FORWARD breakout cables, you need REVERSE.

 

If you're going from SATA ports -> SAS Backplane, then reverse are needed.  BUT, those not using a backplane should NOT use reverse for the MVP controller -> SATA drives, those people need a forward breakout.

 

But, seeing you're using the Norco case, you have backplanes, thus, for the 6 ports on the mobo, you need to go from SATA ports -> SAS backplane, which is reverse.

 

 

The House Brand Molex cables are actually reverse breakout cables, I've tested them myself.  The are the right choice for a Norco rackmount build.  As for generic vs. name brand...I've seen absolutely no difference in performance or build quality of the generic cables versus the name brand, but the generic are a fraction of the price.  The only (slight) downside to the generic cables is that they are 1m in length, which is very long.  So expect to have a lot of extra cable to tie up and tuck away.  The Norco cases are so huge that I haven't found this to be an issue (just make a small coil in the middle of the cable and zip tie it up).

 

The Corsair 850W PSU is an appropriate choice if you want to use a lot of 7200rpm drives in your build.  Personally I would opt for the non-modular model to save money because the Norco case has ample room to store the excess cable, and airflow won't be an issue.  Your call, though.

 

Also be forewarned that the two rear 80mm fans that come with the Norco 4224 are REALLY LOUD.  I would recommend just removing them (or leaving them unplugged).  The airflow from the four 80mm fans mounted on the fan plate in the middle of the case is adequate to cool the entire server (and those fans are much quieter).  Since you are using so many 7200 rpm drives, you also might want to consider replacing the 80mm fan plate with a 120mm fan plate ($20 shipped, though shipping can take months if they are out of stock) and three good quality 120mm fans.  I recommend starting with the stock 80mm fan plate and fans and then only upgrading if you see your drive temps getting a bit too high for comfort.

 

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot to add....have fun with your build

[teamhood]

Building my Norco 4224 as we speak. FYI the House Brand Molex cables are out of stock at the link that Raj supplied... They are working on a lead-time for me now, but I am itching to finish this build and I just started a thread myself so I can try and find a few quickly.

 

The case is big and has a lot of room. It was difficult to put in the Molex power adapter into the backplanes, if you have a large hand you might need to remove the fan plate.

 

Also question I had was in regards to the NIC front pannel LED cables. Where on the MOBO should you plug those into?

[Rajahal]

Every mobo is different, some don't even have NIC LED headers.  If the mobo does have them, they are generally in the block of headers along with the power switch, reset switch, etc.  Consult the mobo manual.  Also, the NIC2 LED won't ever be used, even if you do find a place to plug it in, since unRAID will only ever use the first NIC it finds.

[hklt]

Chiming in with some comments as well since Rajahal actually built out a 4224-based server for me!

 

1) I'd agree with going ahead with getting a second controller card at the outset - more for the "peace of mind" of getting one in and installed while they're still readily available. No telling when something disappears from the market. Besides, better to have everything (or mostly everything) done when you initially have the case open anyway - less to worry about with potentially mucking an existing (and good/functional) build.

 

2) Fans: I didn't have the benefit of hearing what the original fans sounded like, but Raj also told me they were "REALLY LOUD." Depending on where you're gonna stash the server, you might want to just go ahead and replace the fans. Regarding the interior (not the ones at the back) fans on the fanplate, I also asked Raj to go ahead and replace them with the larger 120mm fans. I'm using a mixture (about 50/50 right now) of Green and standard drives, and just for your reference, I'm seeing up to 42 degrees on my 7200rpm drives with these larger fans when running a Parity Check. I would assume that the smaller fans might not move as much cooling air.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you'll love your build. I'm definitely getting good use out of mine!

[Rajahal]

hklt: When I built your server I used the older version of the Norco 4224 case (as that was the only one available at the time).  That version came with 6 stock 80mm fans, all of which were loud.  The new version comes with 6 stock 80mm fans, but only two of them are loud (the rear two).  The four attached to the fanplate are actually pretty quiet.  However, three 120mm fans will still move more air with less noise and less power usage, so there can still be advantages to the upgrade.  However, I no longer think it is necessary as it was in the original version of the 4224.

 

By the way, the easiest way to tell the two versions apart is to look at the front panel.  The older version has a front USB port:

 

 

The newer version does not:

 

[Ouze]

Ok, so before I buy anything else, I just want to double check. I need to buy:

 

4x House Brand Molex ($25)

 

4x Mini SAS to Mini SAS cables ($40)

 

1x AOC-SASLP-MV8 ($109)

 

1x Silicon Image SIL3132 ($15)

 

Is that accurate?

 

I intend to go with the 120mm fan plate, but wanted to make sure it didn't come with one before buying one, as I read in a few places it now comes with one by default. Also, what do you guys consider "acceptable" drive temps?

 

As a side note, not be an asskisser, but the speed and friendliness of the responses I've gotten have been very comforting to me. I have dropped this much on building a server before using Areca RAID, but those were familiar waters as I've done that a few times before. This is something else though.

[grandprix]

Ok, so before I buy anything else, I just want to double check. I need to buy:

 

2x House Brand Molex ($25)

 

4x Mini SAS to Mini SAS cables ($40)

 

1x AOC-SASLP-MV8 ($109)

 

1x Silicon Image SIL3132 ($15)

 

Only one quantity needed changed.  The above has been edited to reflect accurate quantities.

 

As a side note, not be an asskisser, but the speed and friendliness of the responses I've gotten have been very comforting to me. I have dropped this much on building a server before using Areca RAID, but those were familiar waters as I've done that a few times before. This is something else though.

 

No ass kissers allowed. 

 

[hklt]

hklt: When I built your server I used the older version of the Norco 4224 case (as that was the only one available at the time).  That version came with 6 stock 80mm fans, all of which were loud.  The new version comes with 6 stock 80mm fans, but only two of them are loud (the rear two).  The four attached to the fanplate are actually pretty quiet.  However, three 120mm fans will still move more air with less noise and less power usage, so there can still be advantages to the upgrade.  However, I no longer think it is necessary as it was in the original version of the 4224.

 

By the way, the easiest way to tell the two versions apart is to look at the front panel.  The older version has a front USB port:

 

The newer version does not:

 

Good to know for when I need a second Beast 

The new one looks cleaner without the little nub.

[Ouze]

Are these cables equivalent to these? The recommended nylon tube ones appears to only have 1 cable available...

[grandprix]

Are these cables equivalent to these? The recommended nylon tube ones appears to only have 1 cable available...

 

Yes and no.  The cheaper ones are longer by 6".  Electronically, yes.

 

May as well use these.

 

 

 

[Ouze]

Thanks, done and done. All the components I considered optional (which were not, as it turned out) have been ordered, so I'll be back next week with questions, pictures, and injuries.

[DoeBoye]

Chiming in with some comments as well since Rajahal actually built out a 4224-based server for me!

 

1) I'd agree with going ahead with getting a second controller card at the outset - more for the "peace of mind" of getting one in and installed while they're still readily available. No telling when something disappears from the market. Besides, better to have everything (or mostly everything) done when you initially have the case open anyway - less to worry about with potentially mucking an existing (and good/functional) build.

 

2) Fans: I didn't have the benefit of hearing what the original fans sounded like, but Raj also told me they were "REALLY LOUD." Depending on where you're gonna stash the server, you might want to just go ahead and replace the fans. Regarding the interior (not the ones at the back) fans on the fanplate, I also asked Raj to go ahead and replace them with the larger 120mm fans. I'm using a mixture (about 50/50 right now) of Green and standard drives, and just for your reference, I'm seeing up to 42 degrees on my 7200rpm drives with these larger fans when running a Parity Check. I would assume that the smaller fans might not move as much cooling air.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure you'll love your build. I'm definitely getting good use out of mine!

 

+1!

 

I just finished a re-build going from a 590 case to a 4224, and I purchased both MV8 cards I would need, even though I technically didn't need the second one right away. Better safe then sorry. Especially since we are limited to only a few 8 port controllers to choose from...

 

re: fans: When I first got my 4224, I tried with stock fans. WAY too loud! I replaced the 2 rear fans with quieter ones, and it got noticeably less noisy.

 

The 4 80mm fans that come stock are still too loud though, in my opinion. I tried undervolting them, which definitely reduced the db output, but in the end I ordered the 120mm fan wall and installed 3 silent 120mm fans instead.

 

My 4224 has become virtually silent (for a server case )! And temps are still well in the safe zone. I haven't run a parity check yet with the new fans, but I just precleared 2 3TB drives, and a 2TB drive simultaneously, and none of the drives went over 35 degrees

 

 

[Rajahal]

I intend to go with the 120mm fan plate, but wanted to make sure it didn't come with one before buying one, as I read in a few places it now comes with one by default. Also, what do you guys consider "acceptable" drive temps?

 

Correct, the 120mm fan plate is sold separately.  Anything in the 30s © is an acceptable drive temperature, that's the ideal range.  The low 40s are OK once in a while (such as during a parity check in the summer).  45 and up is too hot.  Below 30 is also OK, but below 20 is too cold.

[hklt]

Anything in the 30s © is an acceptable drive temperature, that's the ideal range.  The low 40s are OK once in a while (such as during a parity check in the summer).  45 and up is too hot.  Below 30 is also OK, but below 20 is too cold.

 

I've found all my non-Green drives to run as high as 42 during parity checks, seems like it's compounded by having them all physically clustered together (contiguous bays). In hindsight I probably should have interspersed them among the Green drives to disperse the heat generation more evenly. Live and learn. 

[Rajahal]

Some of my 7200 rpm drives get up around 42C during a parity check too.  As long as they are in the 30s during normal use I don't think it is anything to worry about.

[DoeBoye]

I've found all my non-Green drives to run as high as 42 during parity checks, seems like it's compounded by having them all physically clustered together (contiguous bays). In hindsight I probably should have interspersed them among the Green drives to disperse the heat generation more evenly. Live and learn. 

 

That's the beauty of these cases! There's nothing stopping you from re-arranging them now and seeing if it makes a difference! Since I got my norco case, I've moved my drives' positions 2 or 3 times. I finally settled on starting in the bottom left corner with parity, then cache, then the rest of the data drives from left to right. Unconventional, I know (I started with the logical top left corner), but this allows me to leave the top unused backplanes unplugged. When I eventually need them, rather then jamming my hands in the tiny space to try and plug the molex power plugs in at the very bottom, I can just plug em in at the accessible top plugs... .

 

(I use the unpowered empty bays to store my precleared spare/spares. Any time a drive dies, I can pull out the fresh tray, pop it in, and rebuild .)

 

Just make sure to take a screen shot of your drive order in the management console before you start moving stuff, as unRaid is going to complain when you start moving drives around!!!

[Rajahal]

I finally settled on starting in the bottom left corner with parity, then cache, then the rest of the data drives from left to right. Unconventional, I know (I started with the logical top left corner), but this allows me to leave the top unused backplanes unplugged. When I eventually need them, rather then jamming my hands in the tiny space to try and plug the molex power plugs in at the very bottom, I can just plug em in at the accessible top plugs... .

 

That's all fine, but it is recommended that your parity and cache drive always be connected to the motherboard.  As long as your bottom row is connected to the motherboard then you should be fine.

[DoeBoye]

That's all fine, but it is recommended that your parity and cache drive always be connected to the motherboard.  As long as your bottom row is connected to the motherboard then you should be fine.

 

Excellent point! When I moved the drives, I failed to mention that I also moved the (forward/reverse... dang it! Can never remember which it is!  ) breakout cable along with them!

[madburg]

Need some help advice. Looking to pull the trigger on the Norco RPC-4224 Case. any recommendations were to buy it from?

Newegg has them, but picture shows the old model? Anyone know if they just did not update their picture, or order one from them recently and received the new style (even thought the picture shows the old one)?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219038

IPC Direct also shows a picture of the old style?: http://www.ipcdirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=252

But just noticed that Norco is showing the old picture as well (Thanks Rajahal, I would have never know they updated the chassis)

 

I need to get it rails for this case to go into my rack (have a HP rack) my understanding is I need the following rails for this case

NORCO RL-26 26" 3-sections Ball Bearing Sliding Rail kit for rackmount chassis - OEM /http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811997301 is that correct?

 

I am looking to go with the Corsair CMPSU-750HX unit (damn no more mail in rebate ). Is this a single rail PSU? Would it handle if all drives were 7200rpm? Honestly I am most likely only going to run 7200 parity/cache drives, rest being Green drives, but hate swaping out hardware later. It will be powering a SuperMicro X8SI6-F with a Xeon X3470, besides the stock fans, I will see the db level and temps before swapping them out.