Wiring question for UnRAID network

[ratmice]

I'm having the house wired for ethernet and the quote I got was using Cat5e cable. Will there be any performance deficit for streaming VS. Cat6? Are there other reasons to make the switch? I'm very new at all this networking stuff and appreciate all opinions.

[prostuff1]

If you are wiring a the house I would highly suggest going with CAT6 if possible

 

The cost difference between Cat5e and Cat6 is not very much.  The lowest cost Cat5e from monoprice is about $80 before shipping.  Cat6 from monoprice runs about $110 before shipping.

 

For $30 worth of cable I would go with Cat6.  If the installer wants to charge you an exorbitant amount for Cat6 over the Cat5e, then tell him you want the specs of the cable he buys and you will purchase it for him.

[wsume99]

Cat5e is rated for gigabit speeds so upgrading to cat6 really won't matter much unless you plan on going faster than gigabit speed.  However when I wired my house I went with cat6 becuase it wasn't that much more expensive for the cable & jacks and I wanted to be somewhat futureproof.  IIRC cat6 can handle 10Gbps for runs of ~35m. Which effectively means that my home wiring can handle 10Gbps.  Is that added capability worth the extra cost?  Well that's for you to decide.  In my case it was only ~$50 more in material, so I opted for the cat6 cable.

[cyrnel]

Agreed. The distances in a normal house don't really push either type very hard.

 

Also, best to pull at least two runs per outlet. It doesn't really add to the effort of one and opens up options for the future.

 

New construction?

 

Make sure whoever is actually pulling the cable knows what they're doing. No kinks, stay away from lights, motors, and as far as possible from power, crossing at rt angles only if needed. If helps if they work with whoever is doing the power so they plan to leave each other space.

[ratmice]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I think that I'm going to have them pull cat6, anyway. It's being done by my local HT builder, not a "regular contractor" so it should be done right. I'm basically having them install a data distribution hub in the basement near the electrical panel and moving the cable modem down there, too. Then a run from there to the HT on the first floor and another run to office, on the second floor and then from the office to the attic. That way I can put another switch in the attic for future use to feed the second floor, while the hub in the basement can take care of any future needs for the first floor.

 

Would there be any reason to put in double runs in this scenario? I'm not sure I see the utility in this case as I can just add a run when I need it from the attic or basement, depending on which floor I need it on.

[Joe L.]

Basically you don't have to open up the box on the wall when you need another quick connection.  the time needed to pull two wires and terminate the ends is nearly the same as one.  The big task is fishing the wires through the walls...

 

(I'm going through exactly that right now, wiring 3 bedrooms from attic/basement to a centralized patch panel.  I'm putting in two runs per box.  (I know I'll use them at some point)  I'll just have all the far ends terminated on the 24 port patch panel in the basement, but it is far easier for me than a second switch in a very hot attic.  I can use them as I need.

[cyrnel]

Two cables:

 

a spare in case something happens with the other during install or later (less important if defects are their responsibility)

two can be "bonded" for fast HDMI

lets you use any of the outlets as a router/gateway location.

wired phones?

 

If not, at least consider having them include pull-rope with the single run so you can easily pull more through later. The stuff is $5-10 for 500ft.

 

For existing construction I always pull two at a time. For new it's two or three, often plus RG6.

[Rajahal]

Two cables:

 

a spare in case something happens with the other during install or later (less important if defects are their responsibility)

two can be "bonded" for fast HDMI

 

Some friends of mine are doing this for a relatively short run (maybe 10 - 15 ft).  For a short run like that it really isn't worth it - you can get an HDMI cable that long for not much more money (2 x 25 FT CAT6 is about $6, whereas 1 x 25 FT HDMI is about $15 at monoprice).  They built a server closet that contains their unRAID server, HTPC, video game consoles, etc., and their TV is corner mounted in the living room, so for them it makes sense to have the HTPC be physically remote from the TV.  For a longer run it might be your only choice, but I still don't really like it.  First of all, the cables have to be EXACTLY the same length or it won't work.  For a really long run, that is difficult to pull off.  Secondly, it is just kind of finicky in general.  My friends' short dual ethernet run causes them all kinds of problems.  In my opinion it is better to just put a streaming box at every TV in the house (it can be something cheap, like an $80 Roku).  That way you'll only need a single ethernet cable dedicated to streaming media, and you won't need a powerful streaming box at any one location.  I always prefer to have small, cheap, individual and independent nodes on a network, instead of one big powerful node with the potential to crash and take down the entire house's network with it.  An unRAID server of course is a bit of an exception to this rule, but unRAID never crashes

 

If I were paying to install ethernet in my house, I would also opt for dual runs for all the other reasons mentioned, just not the HDMI one.  If I really wanted that capability then I would just pay to have HDMI run throughout the house as well

 

Personally, I'm trying to move away from wired connections wherever possible.  I think I might actually get rid of my desktop soon as well and have a laptop-only household.  The HTPC and Xbox are the only things that really need wired connections at this point.  Pretty much everything else is fast enough over wireless.

[cyrnel]

Not to sidetrack things too much but I agree, for short runs a premade HDMI cable is better, and cheaper. I remember the first adapters came out when companies were still charging Monster prices for HDMI anything. Also, some of the adapters are junk. I bought one set from Amazon - cable magic or something horrid - that wouldn't work beyond matched 15ft cables. Not exactly useful.

 

You're right  though, matching lengths will be hit or miss unless you have a good TDR, and it makes all the difference in how well the extenders work.

 

Where I do think they're appropriate is for people still stuck on discs who have longer distances to cross. Running 22AWG HDMI stock unharmed more than one floor is pure evil, like pulling 3 cat6 cables taped together.

[beckp]

Double up, or use conduit.

 

A rodent chewed up one of my CAT5e lines (shorted).

 

My city doesn't require conduit. Thank goodness the "U" stables were not tight and we were able to restring with minimum dry wall damage.

 

 

 

[ratmice]

 

lets you use any of the outlets as a router/gateway location.

wired phones?

 

Isn't this the case anyway? Can't you just attach the router/switch/gateway to the outlet and then plug in everything else. Maybe I'm not understanding this point.

 

There are etheernet phones?

 

Thanks for bearing with my newness about this stuff.

[Johnm]

I'd go for the CAT6, 5e is fine for today, but what about a year or 2 from now?

 

It is nice to have dedicated lines for VoIP. but a hub/switch can work (VoIP uses little bandwidth). 

 

You can bind 2 NIC's on one PC for 2Gb if you have 2 lines. if you put multiple PC's/devices at one drop, each can have full bandwidth.

 

you can run 2 subnets each on their own physical network.. maybe one just for media or backups and one for everything else...

 

IDK. I'd be happy with a single run, but if a double is only $10-$15 more per outlet. I'd pop the extra cash to have it.

[cyrnel]

Isn't this the case anyway? Can't you just attach the router/switch/gateway to the outlet and then plug in everything else. Maybe I'm not understanding this point.

 

I meant for the house, not the room. One in, one out.

 

There are Ethernet phones?

 

Yes, but that was about moldy old plug-in-the-wall phones that need copper, hence the question mark. May you never have to repurpose CAT6 for POTS antiques.

 

Ask them to leave a little slack at each outlet. Re-terminating is tough when they're short, and not the way to learn should you try it yourself.

[S80_UK]

There are etheernet phones?

 

Certainly there are.  There's one on my desk right now (a Mitel 5224 IP phone) - plugs into my router like anything else.  We have a PABX application on a server in the company's office - I can dial any other extension for free (just like I was in the office, except I am 90 miles away) and that includes other off-site workers.  Calls to outside numbers dial out through the company's PABX.

 

You can also get Skype phones which hook up in a similar way.

[ratmice]

(I'm going through exactly that right now, wiring 3 bedrooms from attic/basement to a centralized patch panel.  I'm putting in two runs per box.  (I know I'll use them at some point)  I'll just have all the far ends terminated on the 24 port patch panel in the basement, but it is far easier for me than a second switch in a very hot attic.  I can use them as I need.

 

Is that patch panel just a huge gigabit switch, or something else? There's definitely a ton of stuff I don't totally understand here.

 

Maybe someone knows of a good resource for network basics, so I don't have the installer do something I don't really need?

 

Or, would a kind soul be willing to do a little virtual hand-holding via PM?

[ratmice]

Maybe this thread would be better located in the lounge? Feel free to move it.

[cyrnel]

In this case a patch panel is a bunch of network outlets in one unit. It's where all the wires from your individual rooms terminate. Some panels are rack-mount, others wall-mount. The popular method is to use rack mount panel on a wall-mounted bracket. This allows flexibility, additions, and the panel can pivot from the wall on a hinge making wiring changes easier.

 

Talk to your installer. They've probably included something in the bid. For an example, here's a little 12-port vertical wall-mount panel at monoprice. These are a little more fragile than rack-mount styles but most homes don't mess with them often enough to notice.

 

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10514&cs_id=1051401&p_id=7304&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

 

Here's a standard 12-port rack-mount unit.

 

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10514&cs_id=1051401&p_id=7252&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

 

For that you'd need the wall-mount bracket like:

 

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10516&cs_id=1051602&p_id=999&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

 

Once the wall wiring is terminated at the panel you can plug in patch cables that go to your switch, router, whatever. For simplicity, count the number of ports you'll need (one per pulled cable+) and buy the next largest panel. That's cleaner than adding more panels later. Monoprice & firefold have good stuff and seem to alternate on who has better prices w/shipping.

 

[ratmice]

Thanks for all the good info in this thread, I really appreciate the help.

 

Thought of another question, can you daisy chain switches? I have a two floor home with a basement and an open attic. I'm going to have the modem, switch, router, etc... in the basement. I'm also going to have a 2-floor run of cable from the basement to the attic to get easy future access to the second story. So my plan is to connect the switch in the basement to another switch in the attic to then distribute to the second floor. I assume this is OK. Is there a limit to how many switches you can chain together?

 

I'm Getting really psyched to get this done and out of the way.

[Rajahal]

Yes, you can daisy chain switches.  I don't know of any limit, but if there is one it is probably ridiculously high.