How can I fix this setup without spending a fortune? (external drives through USB)

[gathly]

Since deciding to go with UNRAID, I've had problems with it crashing.  It runs fine, sometimes for days, and then I'll go to log-in to the web interface and I can't connect.  The computer is still on, but I can't access it. There's nothing in the syslog to indicate why this is happening.  Unfortunately, I started getting into UNRAID without doing enough reading beforehand, so I have it running on a Lenovo Think Station P150 Tiny using a USB hub connecting 6 external drives (4 x 16TB (including parity drive, 1 8TB, 1 4TB, all external) and 1 internal SSD 2TB used as cache. 

 

Since I can find no errors in syslog, I assume the issue I'm having is hardware related, and I've since learned that USB can drop connection, and that I should really be using SATA, I'm thinking maybe that's the problem causing the crash.  So, first things first, I need to see if I can add an expansion slot to this board.  It's a mini-pc, so I don't know what special versions I need to still fit in the case.  I see the board has SATA1 and SATA2 printed on it.  I've got what could be a PCI or PCIe slot in there.  Can someone with more knowledge than me tell me what is best to do.

Ideally, money no object, I'd build up a whole new PC that has many SATA ports with space for many drives and I'll plug each drive directly into the board through individual SATA ports using no multipliers or eSATA configurations.  But what can I do with this setup and all these external drives?  I've thought of pulling the external drives from their cases and getting an enclosure, and using eSATA, but only if I can add it, since I don't have an eSATA port.  I assume any USB to eSATA adapter defeats the entire purpose, but I need to connect at least 6 drives.

attached are some snapshots of my board and the manual for the think station p350 tiny.

p350_tiny_hmm.pdf

[JonathanM]

Apparently you can get a right angle converter to use a normal 8x PCIe card like a LSI 9300-8e, which could net you a couple SAS external ports good for 4 drives each or more if plugged into a multiplier backplane.

 

Disclaimer, while it looks like it might work from what I saw in the manual, I have no clue if it would actually function properly. The manual shows a video card, who knows if they neutered the PCIe slot so it only works with video.

[Frank1940]

6 hours ago, gathly said:

Ideally, money no object, I'd build up a whole new PC that has many SATA ports with space for many drives and I'll plug each drive directly into the board through individual SATA ports using no multipliers or eSATA configurations. 

 

If 'money is no object" is a true indicator,  I would not waste any time on trying to cobble together something to make that micro-computer work as an Unraid server.

 

Basically to replace that computer, you need a MB, low end CPU, 8GB of RAM, a single rail 450-500W PS and LSI IT-mode card.  And most important a suitable case to house everything.  You may have  noticed that I list that last and in its own sentence!   I have not priced out a system lately but I would think $600 would get you up and running.  A lot of people have shucked USB 3.5" HDs over the years.  (They are usually cheaper because the Drive Manufacturers use them to dump excess HD inventory!)

 

Why do I consider the case to be important?  Because it should have provision to accommodate a substantial number of drives.  The drives should be housed in quick change (or hot-swap) fashion.  (You don't want to disturb connections when you change or add drives.)  It should allow for adequate air flow over the HDs to keep them cool.  And with a careful initial purchase, it will last a lifetime!  There is a thread on cases.  I will provide a link to it.  But it has been around for years, and probably only the last three or four pages have any suggestions that are still available.  (In recent years, the case designs have eliminate having large numbers of HD slots because modern HDs have such huge capacities!)

 

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/8955-the-enclosure-thread/

 

[gathly]

34 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

 

If 'money is no object" is a true indicator,  I would not waste any time on trying to cobble together something to make that micro-computer work as an Unraid server.

 

Basically to replace that computer, you need a MB, low end CPU, 8GB of RAM, a single rail 450-500W PS and LSI IT-mode card.  And most important a suitable case to house everything.  You may have  noticed that I list that last and in its own sentence!   I have not priced out a system lately but I would think $600 would get you up and running.  A lot of people have shucked USB 3.5" HDs over the years.  (They are usually cheaper because the Drive Manufacturers use them to dump excess HD inventory!)

 

Why do I consider the case to be important?  Because it should have provision to accommodate a substantial number of drives.  The drives should be housed in quick change (or hot-swap) fashion.  (You don't want to disturb connections when you change or add drives.)  It should allow for adequate air flow over the HDs to keep them cool.  And with a careful initial purchase, it will last a lifetime!  There is a thread on cases.  I will provide a link to it.  But it has been around for years, and probably only the last three or four pages have any suggestions that are still available.  (In recent years, the case designs have eliminate having large numbers of HD slots because modern HDs have such huge capacities!)

 

https://forums.unraid.net/topic/8955-the-enclosure-thread/

 

I know it's literally an official fallacy, but I can't help thinking about the money already spent on all my drives and the months it took to get all my data transferred onto the new system.  However, I can definitely start planning now for that better system and work towards it slowly.

I haven't looked at the enclosure thread yet, but what do you think of this one?  I've had my eye on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Vertical-Mid-Tower-Computer-CA-1X1-00M6WN-00/dp/B0B2KVJNKT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3F7MEHKMM4C1K&keywords=Thermaltake+Tower+500+Snow+Edition+Vertical+Mid-Tower&qid=1692834534&sprefix=thermaltake+tower+500+snow+edition+vertical+mid-tower+computer+chassis+supports+e-atx+ca-1x1-00m6wn-00%2Caps%2C954&sr=8-1

 

 

also,

 

ideally, do you still use a 32GB thumb drive for the OS, or do you do something internally?

[Frank1940]

I personally think that case appears to have cabling and drive replacement challenges.   But I only looked quickly at the Amazon page.   

 

You must use a USB drive because Unraid uses the GUID in the licensing scheme which is unique to USB flash drives.  Do not get a drive larger than 32GB or you will have problems because the required is limited to 32Gb max.  (Unraid requires less than 4GB of storage on that flash drive.  It read from when the system first boots up and writes a file or two when it shuts down.  The only writes made to that flash drive when you update the Unraid configuration settings.  So the read and write speeds are not a factor in the system performance.) 

[dboonthego]

 

5 hours ago, gathly said:

what do you think of this one?

Agree with Frank.  I use the Fractal-Design Define R5 and I couldn't be happier.  Extremely well engineered.  Quiet. Excellent cable management.  Holds (2) 2.5hdd on backside of mobo.  (8) easily removable bays (not hot swap) for 3.5hdd.  (2) 5.25 bays for cdrom or other HDD with conversion kit.  Dust management is awesome.  Has removable screens that act like a typical dryer lint screen.  Inside of my case stays relatively clean.  Worth every penny.

 

[dboonthego]

3 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

Do not get a drive larger than 32GB or you will have problems because the required is limited to 32Gb max.

If someone has a flash larger than 32GB, it can be partitioned to 32GB or less and additional space discarded, correct?

[Frank1940]

7 hours ago, dboonthego said:

If someone has a flash larger than 32GB, it can be partitioned to 32GB or less and additional space discarded, correct?

Quite possibly.  However, the USB drive has to work with limited capability of the BIOS and the Unraid Boot Loader to deal with the partition scheme.   It is much easier just to get a Flash Drive of a proper size!

[d4man]

8 hours ago, dboonthego said:

 

Agree with Frank.  I use the Fractal-Design Define R5 and I couldn't be happier.

 

Greetings everyone, long time lurker. I also built my NAS out of a Fractal Define R5, I love the case, I love Unraid, I've used OMV on Raspberry Pis and old PCS and True Nas on old hardware and then I tried out Unraid not expecting much, but loved its user interface so I bought it, along with new HDDs and hardware then upgraded the license to 12 hard drives. 

Edited August 24, 2023 by d4man

[gathly]

Just in case this ends up helping someone else

 

I ran this on the command line in UNRAID and I haven't had a problem with it crashing since.  Some linux builds have this power saving option which shuts down USB ports after some amount of time to save power, and this disables that.

 

echo -1 > /sys/module/usbcore/parameters/autosuspend