bagican Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) Hello! I'm new here! This is nice forum! I have found very useful information here. Nice community is here. Thank you! I would like to share my experience.... I plan to finish my new minimalistic, fully passive (fanless) home server/NAS with very low idle power consumption (only ⚡ 2—3 W ‼️ 😮 when running Debian only). Hardware: MB: Asus Pro H610T D4-CSM CPU: Intel i3-13100 (TDP 60W) RAM: 1x Crucial 32GB DDR4-3200 SODIMM (CT32G4SFD832A) //max. is 2x32GB SSD: 1x m.2 Samsung 980 Pro 2TB PSU: 12V 150W from AKASA (AK-PD150-02KEU) https://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&model=AK-PD150-02K I enabled power-saving features in BIOS like C-states and ASPM. (I'm thankful to @mgutt for excelent content about powertop.) OS: Debian 12 with DietPi, kernel 6.1.0-13-amd64 (upgrded to 6.5.0-10-amd64 and is ok too). ⚡ Power consumption is measured on DC side (12V, yes this board can be powered with 12V). - keyboard and LCD unplugged (only LAN plugged with 1 active SSH connection). idle: 2—3 W load: 50—60W (it can be adjusted in BIOS to TDP 20W for example) Here is measurement of power consumption on DC side: My powertop report: - HTML version: https://jsbin.com/rasulufimi/1/edit?output __________________________________________________________________________________________________ I know, the mainboard is not extendable, no PCI slots, but for me is good enough. I was able to buy MB+CPU under 180 Eur (which is price of new Odroid H3) Expansion: - it's possible to add M.2 to 6x SATA adapter (something like that: https://www.amazon.com/Express-Converter-Downstream-Thunderbolt-Expansion/dp/B0B7CNL4QD ) - ASM1166 - driver needs to be upgraded most probably, according to this thread: - I plan to try M.2 to 2.5G LAN Adapter (15 Eur from Aliexpress, with RTL8125B, here are some details: https://watchmysys.com/blog/2023/10/2-5gbit-ethernet-for-tinyminimicro-labs/, https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/network-interface-controllers-10-100-1000m-gigabit-ethernet-pci-express-software ) Power supply: - currently I'm using 12V 150W from AKASA (mentioned at the beginning with other hardware) - I would like to try and compare with some other efficient power supplies. My candidates are: - MeanWell LSP-160-12 https://www.tme.eu/en/details/lsp-160-12t/built-in-power-supplies/mean-well/ (efficiency 92.5%) - or MeanWell UHP-200-12 seems promising too, efficiency 93% https://www.tme.eu/en/details/uhp-200-12/built-in-power-supplies/mean-well/ ... I found this one as most efficient (93%) but I know it depends on the load... (so it may not be as efficient in small loads <10% of PSU load capacity) Power backup: - later I plan to add DIN mountable 12V redundant power unit from MeanWell and 12V UPS battery backup - also from MeanWell __________________________________________________________________________________________________ I hope you will find it useful. Have a nice build! Question: I would like to add 2x 2TB SSD Samsung (SATA). And later maybe other SATA SSDs (into M.2 to 6x SATA adapter). Will be this build usable for Unraid OS? Edited January 13 by bagican 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Lolight Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) On 12/14/2023 at 7:16 PM, bagican said: I would like to add 2x 2TB SSD Samsung (SATA). And later maybe other SATA SSDs (into M.2 to 6x SATA adapter). Will be this build usable for Unraid OS? A nice report! You can only use a single NVMe SSD since there is only one compatible M.2 (Key M) slot. Yes this board should be compatible with Unraid and you could utilize onboard SATA ports. Edited December 18, 2023 by Lolight Quote Link to comment
ppn7 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 very nice result. But i can't find any 13100 nor 12100 for less than 120€ + 115€ the MB. BTW, your PSU is a 4pin, how do you connect it to the MB which seems to use a 19V 5.5mm jack Quote Link to comment
bagican Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 I found adapter from 4pin to DC 5.5x2.5mm on Aliexpress 1 Quote Link to comment
ppn7 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) On 1/13/2024 at 11:31 AM, bagican said: I found adapter from 4pin to DC 5.5x2.5mm on Aliexpress Thanks and when you say power consumption on DC side, you mean directly from the wall, so for the whole system, not only the CPU ? It's really amazing, i don't know if it's because of the MB, CPU and the PSU, or only the CPU ? Because even an i5 13500 can consume less than 1w idle, so maybe 13th intel are really good for that ? I don't know if an i3 12100 is as good as your CPU. I would have liked to find an equivalent motherboard for an i3 10100, for example. I'm still hesitating between N100 motherboards, 1L PCs like lenovo, hp, dell or a chinese mini pc. But this last solution seems to me the least reliable in the long term... Edited January 14 by ppn7 Quote Link to comment
bagican Posted January 15 Author Share Posted January 15 (edited) When I said power consumption on the DC side I mean power consumption of whole system (except power supply). If you can see power consumption of whole system + power supply (it's on the AC side / from wall) it's about 10-20% higher - depending on power supply efficiency. Here is my photo: ! Note that photo and screenshot of Shelly were not taken in the same time ! Power consumption was not constant number but jumping values in time. //edit: One more note here (again) I have no fan. It's fully passively cooled. Edited January 15 by bagican Quote Link to comment
ppn7 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 8 hours ago, bagican said: When I said power consumption on the DC side I mean power consumption of whole system (except power supply). If you can see power consumption of whole system + power supply (it's on the AC side / from wall) it's about 10-20% higher - depending on power supply efficiency. Here is my photo: ! Note that photo and screenshot of Shelly were not taken in the same time ! Power consumption was not constant number but jumping values in time. //edit: One more note here (again) I have no fan. It's fully passively cooled. Thanks for the explanation. I'm really surprised by your results. I see that you are almost constantly in C10 package, do you plan to add one or two HDD/SDD in sata and see if it changes the consumption? Currently i find the H610m for 115€ brand new or 90€ used. Still too high for the whole system but i keep an eye on this Quote Link to comment
mavrrick Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 12/14/2023 at 2:16 PM, bagican said: with RTL8125B Be careful with this adapter as i believe that is the 2.5Gbps adapter that is blacklisted. You may need to do some extra stuff to make it work. I would be interested to know your complete BOM. Also how this goes as you grow it out. The 2-3 watt power draw is impressive, but with so few devices connected i wonder how it will scale. I am very curious how i twill scale once you add a controller and such to the unit. Either way great job on a low power solution. I really wish there were more options to house many NVME SSD's Quote Link to comment
mavrrick Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 (edited) On 1/14/2024 at 5:39 PM, ppn7 said: or a chinese mini pc. But this last solution seems to me the least reliable in the long term. May be true, but i am very impressed with it so far. My unit from CWWK with the adapter board to enable 4 NVME m.2 drives has been functioning great for about 3 months. I now have 11TB of storage in it and it idles around 13 watts when not busy. That is with a 2TB WD 650E, 1TB WD 770, and 2 4TB Crucial P3 plus drives in it. So i have that expansion board filled. with drives. Only thing i wish it did was have proper guid from the built in TF card slot so i could git rid of the USB Flash drive. One thing i possibly should consider is a more efficient power brick as that is something that has been called out in some reviews as a potential efficiency loss. Edited January 16 by mavrrick Quote Link to comment
ppn7 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 2 hours ago, mavrrick said: May be true, but i am very impressed with it so far. My unit from CWWK with the adapter board to enable 4 NVME m.2 drives has been functioning great for about 3 months. I now have 11TB of storage in it and it idles around 13 watts when not busy. That is with a 2TB WD 650E, 1TB WD 770, and 2 4TB Corsiar P3 plus drives in it. So i have that expansion board filled. with drives. Only thing i wish it did was have proper guid from the built in TF card slot so i could git rid of the USB Flash drive. One thing i possibly should consider is a more efficient power brick as that is something that has been called out in some reviews as a potential efficiency loss. Which model are you using ? Quote Link to comment
mavrrick Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, ppn7 said: Which model are you using ? This one. Though in August when i ordered it i got the V1 version. Now they appear to have move To V2 which from what i can tell just added 2 Superspeed USB ports and two USB 2.0 ports to the front. Everything else is the same. From that page though you would need to select the N305 chip one and the option with no ram/no SSD + 4 m.2 nvme. The last option gets the daughter board. Quote Link to comment
bromerico975 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Hello, I have a similar system as you: - ASUS Pro H610T D4-CSM - Intel i3 12100 boxed - 1x 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MHz - Leicke ULL NT03015 12V 120W - Transcend 16GB JF V10 (no HHD for testing) - Unraid 6.12.6 But the lowest wattage I can reach is 4.7 watts (only with LAN cable and USB stick). The fan only consumes 0.1 watts. @bagican How can you reach 3.1 watts? Is your Akasa power supply so much better? Have you compared the power consumption from Debian 12 with Unraid? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment
KevinE Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 This board is interesting. I am building a boat / rv computer running unraid so it has to be small form factor, 12v power supply ideally with minimal idle power consumption. 2 SATA ports is a problem as I am thinking 3 hard drive setup (with 1 parity). Is anybody aware of another board with 12v power supply (non-atx) and at least 3 sata ports? Would prefer to not go down the m2 -> sata adapter route. Quote Link to comment
bromerico975 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/16/2024 at 3:06 PM, bromerico975 said: Hello, I have a similar system as you: - ASUS Pro H610T D4-CSM - Intel i3 12100 boxed - 1x 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MHz - Leicke ULL NT03015 12V 120W - Transcend 16GB JF V10 (no HHD for testing) - Unraid 6.12.6 But the lowest wattage I can reach is 4.7 watts (only with LAN cable and USB stick). The fan only consumes 0.1 watts. @bagican How can you reach 3.1 watts? Is your Akasa power supply so much better? Have you compared the power consumption from Debian 12 with Unraid? Thanks in advance! It's up to unraid. With TrueNAS SCALE I reach 3 watts. 1 Quote Link to comment
DrizzleV Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) On 1/16/2024 at 3:06 PM, bromerico975 said: Hello, I have a similar system as you: - ASUS Pro H610T D4-CSM - Intel i3 12100 boxed - 1x 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MHz - Leicke ULL NT03015 12V 120W - Transcend 16GB JF V10 (no HHD for testing) - Unraid 6.12.6 But the lowest wattage I can reach is 4.7 watts (only with LAN cable and USB stick). The fan only consumes 0.1 watts. @bagican How can you reach 3.1 watts? Is your Akasa power supply so much better? Have you compared the power consumption from Debian 12 with Unraid? Thanks in advance! I also have a similar system: - ASUS Pro H610T D4-CSM - Intel i3 12100 - 1x 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MHz - 19V 250W power brick - SSD SKHynix 512GB The lowest idle consumption is 12W. C state couldn't go any further than C3. I wonder if the Realtek NIC prevents it (as many ppl reported), but it seems not to be a problem for you?? Edited February 4 by DrizzleV Quote Link to comment
bromerico975 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Hi, with this command, you can activate ASPM for the Realtek NIC: echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/r8169/0000:03:00.0/link/l1_2_aspm "0000:03:00.0" is the address for the Realtek RLT8111H from lspci command. Quote Link to comment
DrizzleV Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, bromerico975 said: Hi, with this command, you can activate ASPM for the Realtek NIC: echo 1 | sudo tee /sys/bus/pci/drivers/r8169/0000:03:00.0/link/l1_2_aspm "0000:03:00.0" is the address for the Realtek RLT8111H from lspci command. Thanks, I just realized I did this before, but the command failed. I found that there isn't l1_2_aspm file, but only l1_1_aspm. Anyway I set it to 1 and it still doesn't go further than C3, but power consumption is now 6W. If I turn off the Realtek controller completely, it goes down to 4W. Update: I enable L1.2 substate in BIOS, and set l1_2_aspm to 1. It's still in C3. Edited February 4 by DrizzleV Quote Link to comment
bagican Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 @DrizzleV do you have newest BIOS? Did you try another SSD? Because some SSDs (mainly older ones) can cause that system is not able to reach lower C-states. Quote Link to comment
DrizzleV Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 15 hours ago, bagican said: @DrizzleV do you have newest BIOS? Did you try another SSD? Because some SSDs (mainly older ones) can cause that system is not able to reach lower C-states. You are right, I replace the SSD and can now reach 3-4W (C10). Thanks a lot. One thing worth noticing is that the ASPM activation for the Realtek NIC does not persist, so one should put the cmd in crontab or boot service. Quote Link to comment
ppn7 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 2/5/2024 at 12:33 AM, DrizzleV said: Thanks, I just realized I did this before, but the command failed. I found that there isn't l1_2_aspm file, but only l1_1_aspm. Anyway I set it to 1 and it still doesn't go further than C3, but power consumption is now 6W. If I turn off the Realtek controller completely, it goes down to 4W. Update: I enable L1.2 substate in BIOS, and set l1_2_aspm to 1. It's still in C3. Excuse me guys i have almost the same problem but with another board. My /link folder is empty, and i can't applicate the command line, it returns as access denied. Does your folder contain files named l1_aspm or something else ? The command is supposed to edit a existing file or create one ? Quote Link to comment
de-sascha Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Hi Anyone successfully tested a NVME SATA extension Card like ASM1166 or other regarding APSM. In my Case I have a ASM1166 which did a great Job on a Fujitsu Q957 but on this Mainboard I fall back from C10 to C2 if I in stall this card. This is a great Mainboard but very limited regarding of SATA Ports. Quote Link to comment
bagican Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 (edited) Hi @de-sascha ... as I promised you (on hardwareluxx.de) I tested it today (few minutes ago) and this mainboard doesn't play well with the ASM1166 m.2 to 6x SATA adapter. TL;DR: without ASM1166: idle: 2-3W ⚡️✅ - C10 (~91%) with ASM1166: idle: 14.1 - 14.5W ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️ - with ASPM L1 on all devices - no errors in dmesg - C2 max (~98%) See more stuff, screenshots, results, ...: Spoiler Debian 12, kernel 6.1.0-18 idle: 2-3 W (without ASM1166) ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- now, with ASM1166 - powertop: only C2 I have tried several combinations of L1 or "L0s L1" for ASPM: - idle: 14.7 - 14.8 W - idle: 14.2 - 14.4 W - here you can see my powertop html report: https://jsbin.com/rolehanuqi/edit?output and my whole dmesg log: https://pastebin.com/18FZnAAB (after restart, without ASPM applied) and after powertop and ASPM enabled: https://pastebin.com/aTyQnvAZ But be aware that I tested my ASM1166 adapter in Odroid H3 and power consumption increased only +1 W (as you can see here) ❗️TODO: - Also, I forgot to upgrade BIOS, so maybe I will update this post tomorrow with newest bios. - ❗️It would be great to test another SATA SSD, because I've used old 128GB Crucial M4 SATA SSD (11+ years old). ______________________________________________________________________________________________ UPDATE: ️ - Updated BIOS to newest (Version 3202, 2024/03/07) - Changed old 128GB SSD to new Samsung 870 QVO 2TB without ASM1166: idle: 2-3W ⚡️✅ (3-4W on AC side) - C10 (~94%) - powertop report: https://jsbin.com/nujejetotu/edit?output - power consumption on AC side (by Shelly Plus 1PM): Spoiler - here you can see power consumption in time (on AC side, by Shelly Plus 1PM), mostly idle with one short benchmark (with peak up to 60W) with ASM1166: idle: 14.1 - 14.5W ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️ (16.7 ~ 17.4W on AC side) - with ASPM L1 on all devices - no errors in dmesg - C2 max (~98%) - powertop report: https://jsbin.com/sawelehomi/edit?output https://jsbin.com/sawelehomi/edit?output - power consumption on AC side (by Shelly Plus 1PM): Spoiler here you can see: - 19:46:16 - I turned on PC - 19:47:10 ~ system boot finish - 19:48:46 - I enabled L1 on all PCI devices - 19:49:16 - I enabled powertop --auto-tune ----- detail on idle with ASM1166: Room temperature: 23°C CPU temperature (passive/fanless cooling with special aluminium case): - idle without ASM1166 (package C-state in C10) : 29~30°C - idle with ASM1166 (package C-state in C2): 36-37°C Edited March 14 by bagican update Quote Link to comment
kdm Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Hey Bagician, On your recommendation I've ordered the same motherboard, config will be: CPU: Intel Core i3-12100 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor MB: ASUS Pro H610T D4-CSM Ram: Crucial 32GB DDR4-3200 SODIMM NVMe: Lexar NM790 M.2 2280 PCIe Gen 4x4 NVMe SSD 2TB HDD: WD Ultrastar HC550 16TB 3.5" Enterprise HDD: WD Green 2Tb 3.5" Hopefully I can get similar power results to you. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vircos Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I did order this motherboard (with an Intel Core i3-14100) based on this topic and I use it with an ASM1166. But I am facing the same issue as descriped by bagican. It won't go past C2 WITH hard drives connected. Without the harddrives connected, it was able to reach C6 with the ASM116 installed. Idle with 2 SSD's and 3 hard drives I am doing 20-22 watts right now, which is an improvement over its predecessor (QNAP quad nas with an Intel Celeron J4025). Quote Link to comment
bagican Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 (edited) Hi, I updated my post above: ⬆️ Edited March 14 by bagican Quote Link to comment
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