UnRAID on Hyper-V using USB Redirector

[garycase]

Has anyone tried installing UnRAID in a Hyper-V VM under Windows 8?

From what I can tell, you would need to use USB Redirector (which costs $75) to achieve USB pass-through;  but I'm wondering if anyone has done this using some other work-a-round.

 

It seems that unless Microsoft adds USB pass-through to Hyper-V, the ESXi approach is much better for UnRAID ... but it WOULD be nice to be able to run it on a Windows system.

 

[mrow]

I don't think it would be nice to run anything on a Windows system. 

 

On a more serious note, why would you want to run this on Windows when ESXi is free?

[BetaQuasi]

I don't believe that there is NIC support from unRAID on HyperV 2012.. someone here tried it, there is a thread somewhere.

[garycase]

I had found the other thread discussing installing UnRAID on a Server 2012 setup with Hyper-V, but they had given up due to the lack of USB passthrough.

 

I was curious if anyone had tried it using the USB Redirector package -- granted an expensive way to do it (Redirector is $75), but if it does the trick, I might be willing to just toss the $$

 

Why do it on a Windows box?    Well, given that I am going to have a Windows box, IF I use Windows 8 then Hyper-V is free (just like ESXi).    So if I used a large enough case to hold the drives for my array, I could have a single system for both my normal PC and the UnRAID data store.    I haven't bothered (yet) to set up an ESXi box, but my understanding is that you can't conveniently use the ESXi server as a primary machine due to video passthrough and management issues ... is that correct?

 

[cpshoemake]

While it's likely this setup will work, it seems to subvert the main advantage of unRAID—reliability. A general purpose Windows box will crash. ESXi on supported hardware is virtually crash-proof in my experience.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[garycase]

I suspect that's true vis-à-vis ESXi reliability.

 

On the other hand, if I need to use a separate box anyway, a native UnRAID box seems the most reliable approach of all.

 

... although it is tempting to build an ESXi server and have UnRAID running in a VM, just for the flexibility of being able to use other VMs on the same box.

 

 

[kaiguy]

I have never experienced any reliability issues with ESXi.  Knock on wood, it's rock solid.

[WeeboTech]

With the way windows works where you have to reboot often when installing software, do you want to run a file server application on a machine you are using as a workstation?

 

Then you have the automated windows updates which sometimes reboots the machine.

 

I do not think it's a wise choice to run a file server application on a windows machine.

How will windows handle the situation when a drive fails?

 

 

With ESX, there is at least communication with the base OS (ESX) and the Hosted virtual machines when you have VMWare tools installed. 

 

Using ESX/Vmware Tools and VMware drivers under unRAID, you get performance that is close to bare metal.

 

Windows apps you want to leave running all the time can be hosted in a virtual machine pretty easily.

[garycase]

I agree completely that ESXi is a better approach for most UnRAID use.    What I was toying with was a way to have a "local" UnRAID server in my primary Windows box rather than setting up a RAID array for the local data -- i.e. data that's only used by the Windows system.    Actually, as I think about it, for such a small amount of data (3-4TB) I could set up a simple 3-drive UnRAID with 3TB drives and perhaps avoid the necessity of USB passthrough.    I haven't tried it yet -- but I believe I've read that you can boot from a small VHD as long as it's got the UnRAID label if you're only using the free version ... is that right?

 

[WeeboTech]

You could also go with an external SATA RAID unit and make it totally simple.

Do you need to share the data out on the lan?

 

 

[mrow]

If you want both in the same box, why not just install a Windows VM and passthrough your video card?

[WeeboTech]

I was considering the exploration of an NComputing L300 Virtual Thin Client System in the virtual windows environment.

 

Years ago I used remote desktop with a thin smart client.

The viewsonic airpanel V150 was a neat idea, but not perfect and without it's shortcomings.

 

All depends on what you are trying to achieve or save.

 

In the end I went with a quality server environment with ESX/ unRAID vm, windows xp vm for always on apps and a decent used laptop for everyday access.

 

The cool thing about the XP vm is that I have a torrent server running, and when I need to I can convert video there.

I also have a sacraficial XP instance that I use to access websites that may be questionable. I.e. if it gets damaged, I just delete the instance and copy the virgin instance over again.  Also, vmware vm's can be set to log all changes since power on, then discard them completely after power off thus bringing you back to a know starting state.

 

[garycase]

If you want both in the same box, why not just install a Windows VM and passthrough your video card?

 

Does this mean you can run Windows on the ESXi box and attach a keyboard/display to it?    If so, can you attach dual displays (as long as the video card supports it)?

 

THAT is definitely an attractive option -- UnRAID could run in its own VM, and any Windows reboot wouldn't impact the stability of ESXi.

 

[garycase]

 

In the end I went with a quality server environment with ESX/ unRAID vm, windows xp vm for always on apps and a decent used laptop for everyday access.

 

... I also have a sacraficial XP instance that I use to access websites that may be questionable. I.e. if it gets damaged, I just delete the instance and copy the virgin instance over again.  Also, vmware vm's can be set to log all changes since power on, then discard them completely after power off thus bringing you back to a know starting state.

 

I do virtually the same thing on my main Windows box => I have a LOT of VMware VMs (running under Workstation) that I use for testing various things;  and also have an "XP for Browsing" VM that I use to access any questionable web sites => it can of course be trivially reverted to its virgin state with a couple file copies; although I simply use a Snapshot to do the same thing almost instantly.

 

Considering how many PCs I have around the house, the likelihood of actually reverting to a single PC is pretty small.  But I'm always thinking about it -- and building a high-quality server with ESXi sounds like a good way to do it.    May just have to be my next project 

[mrow]

If you want both in the same box, why not just install a Windows VM and passthrough your video card?

 

Does this mean you can run Windows on the ESXi box and attach a keyboard/display to it?    If so, can you attach dual displays (as long as the video card supports it)?

 

THAT is definitely an attractive option -- UnRAID could run in its own VM, and any Windows reboot wouldn't impact the stability of ESXi.

 

 

Yes you can pass the video card through and support however many monitors the card supports. You should also be able to add a a keyboard and mouse to a Windows VM, as long as they're USB, in the same way you add your USB thumb drive to the unraid VM. If that doesn't work for some reason then you could certainly by a cheap USB PCI card and pass the card straight through to the Windows VM. Getting a USB PCI card might be a good idea any way in case you ever need to plug a camera or a thumb drive or something like that and access them in your Windows VM.

[WeeboTech]

Anyone have suggested known video cards that work? I may try this route out.

[BobPhoenix]

ATI/AMD are the best candidates from what I've read.  And NO built in video on MB the last I read - but that may have changed.  So anyone like me that would want to use Intel built in video are out of luck.

[garycase]

 

... In the end I went with a quality server environment with ESX/ unRAID vm, windows xp vm for always on apps and ...

 

 

Can you list the primary components you used?  [Motherboard, CPU, memory, NIC, RAID Controller]  I know ESXi can be a bit "picky".    Also, if you were doing it over, is there anything you'd change?

 

... and if you DO try a video card with pass-through, please post the results you see here 

[WeeboTech]

Here is my setup and parts I've used for a number of ESX builds.

 

SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O LGA 1155 Intel C204 Micro ATX Intel Xeon E3 Server Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182253

 

Intel Xeon E3-1230 Sandy Bridge 3.2GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 80W Quad-Core Server Processor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115083

 

Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey Silent ATX Mid Tower Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352022

 

CORSAIR HX Series HX750 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010

 

SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold ((SS-650KM Active PFC F3)) 650W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088

 

Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Server Hynix M Model KVR13E9/8HM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239135

 

ICY DOCK MB971SP-B DuoSwap 5.25" Hot-Swap Drive Caddy for 2.5" and 3.5" SATA HD/SSD

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994143

 

Patriot Supersonic Rage XT 64GB USB 3.0 Flash Drive Model PEF64GSRUSB

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220720

 

StarTech S25SLOTR 2.5in SATA Removable Hard Drive Bay for PC Expansion Slot

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998052

 

SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147193

 

StarTech PEXESAT322I PCI-Express x1 Low Profile Ready SATA III (6.0Gb/s) 2 Int/2 Ext SATA Controller Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816129101

 

Power-over-eSATA II + Internal SATA II 4-port PCI-e Controller Card with Low Profile Bracket

(DOES NOT SUPPORT PASS THROUGH), but works with RDM Fine.

http://www.sybausa.com/productInfo.php?iid=844&currentPage=0

 

I also purchased a used M1015 and an ARC-1222.

I have not decided which I'll use. I needed the Areca so I could grab data from my RAID1 array after the storm.

I like the M1015 because it's simple and will support the pass through without any issues.

I purchased the SYBA for extra ports in my work machine. I needed eSATA ports.

I had originally intended to use it for my HP Microservers.

The StarTech ASM1061 server is good for the Microservers. It gives me top speed for the Samsung PM840 in the microserver.

 

If I were to do anything different I might choose a different case or a less powerful PSU.

I choose this case, because at the time I did not plan to go with 15, 20 or 24 drives. My new apartment is much smaller and having the server in the bedroom requires it to be really quiet. This case is laden with all sorts of sound absorbing material and rubber washers for the hard drives.

I choose the HX750 because it had 12 SATA and 8 Peripheral which mean I did not have to use splitters.

I purchased the seasonic X650 for a smaller 5 drive build that I brought to work for updating my workstation there.

 

 

If anyone can recommend a video card known to work with Pass through, I would appreciate the heads up also!

[garycase]

Thanks.  That's the same motherboard I've been considering, so I suspect I'll use it as well, since you've confirmed it works well with ESXi.    I wish it used registered RAM, but at least it's got ECC.    I'm sure 32GB will be sufficient for "playing" around with this -- it's purely an un-needed extra machine for "playing around" with virtualization -- and it's a good bit less expensive than a higher-end motherboard/Xeon with registered modules.

 

Appreciate your comments on the other components -- the only one that surprised me is the EXESAT322I SATA card => I'd think an x1 card would be bandwidth limited with 4 SATA ports.  Do you only use this for one drive?

 

It's going to be late summer/fall before I do a build ... we're traveling a lot this summer, so I'll wait and make it a fall project ... so I can't help with the video card suggestions.    But I'd think this is more a function of the motherboard/chipset/ESXi than any specific video card ... if the PCIe x16 slot is "passed through", the card should work.    You might want to just get one of the really inexpensive cards Newegg occasionally offers on their "Shell Shocker Deals" ... often as low as $20 or so.  ... at least to test the concept.    You'd probably want a higher-end card if you wanted to do more graphics intensive stuff ... although I doubt anyone would ever need a really high-end card for this [You're NOT going to use a virtualized machine as a "gaming" system  ]

 

 

[garycase]

Just to get a feel for why you selected the E3 series Xeon, I was comparing the various E3 series Xeons on Newegg (for price) and PassMark (for performance) ... and the 1230 was certainly a good choice.    With today's choices I'd go with a 1240v2, but the set of choices and costs vary with time, so we'll see what it looks like this fall.

 

But the E3 series certainly seems like the way to go.

 

[WeeboTech]

Appreciate your comments on the other components -- the only one that surprised me is the EXESAT322I SATA card => I'd think an x1 card would be bandwidth limited with 4 SATA ports.  Do you only use this for one drive?

 

I don't do anything on this card that requires the highest speed possible. Currently I'm using with an external hw raid box. Since the box is doing the raid, The x1 is good enough. I bought it more for the eSATA/4 port capability to use on the HP micro server.

I built a micro ESXi host with the Supermicro board and slapped that card in there. If need be, I'll swap it out with a M1015. For now it's fine for what I do with it. 

I have a Centos 6 environment as a .vmdk on the PM840 then RDM the external RAID unit to the Centos 6 environemnt.

The external RAID unit is the backup drive for other stuff on my network.  Since I'm using older 750GB drives in it. Top speed is not an issue.

[WeeboTech]

Just to get a feel for why you selected the E3 series Xeon, I was comparing the various E3 series Xeons on Newegg (for price) and PassMark (for performance) ... and the 1230 was certainly a good choice.    With today's choices I'd go with a 1240v2, but the set of choices and costs vary with time, so we'll see what it looks like this fall.

 

But the E3 series certainly seems like the way to go.

 

The most important thing for me was a large cache with hyperthreading at the most cost effective pricing and a known working setup.  When I started looking at it. it was questionable if the Supermicro board would support it reliably.

When I get around to building my second system, I'll consider the 1240v2.

[prostuff1]

I would suggest the X9scm-iif and the 1240v2 for the second ESXi build.  I just built one for a customer using those pieces and 32GB of RAM.  it worked a treat.

[garycase]

Actually, the 1230v2 is a good choice as well.

 

In any event, I'm sure you'll want to use an Ivy Bridge unit => higher memory bandwidth, lower power utilization, and more "horsepower" ... with all the same virtualization options.

 

As a comparison (based on today's pricing) ...

 

The E3-1230 costs $240, and scores 8163 on PassMark.    The E3-1230v2 is CHEAPER ($235), and scores 8975.    The E3-1240v2 costs $275, and scores 9453.    So between the 1230v2 and 1240v2 the cost goes up 17% but the performance only goes up 5%.    I'd probably opt for the 1240v2 "just because" ... but the math tends to support the 1230v2 as the best price/performance choice