unRAID fork(), concepts, ideas and discussion, Running unRAID on another distro.


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 153
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ironic;

 

There's nothing wrong with what you are attempting to do in this thread, except you got carried away on the announcement of soon having a release without first having approval to distribute emhttp in your package.

 

When you allowed donations you should have made some statements on what might happen. Without approval to distribute emhttp you shouldn't be releasing any Arch unRAID iso. Also, if the iso doesn't happen then what is next?

 

All the talk of forking with a new forum and replacing emhttp certainly makes it appear there aren't any long term plans to include Limetech if/once the fork gains momentum and that doesn't read well. Also, the fact people were pushing for you to accept donations for a fork is an indicator that certain people would like to see that happen. An actual fork, not a LimeTech collaboration.

 

It's rather obvious from posts in the other thread and your comments about no response in 3 weeks that there really isn't any ongoing discussion with Tom happening so the story that background communications were happening is rather weak. Glad to see you now say waiting instead of "in talks", which is where things really are.

 

Your "friend" in this endeavor now making a long post about benefits has missed the point (yet again). The question is not what it will do or how it's a benefit, the question is of ethics.

Link to comment

I really don't know what you're trying to achieve with your incendiary posts.

 

I have asked for a sub forum here and would prefer that over and above a self initiated effort. I have sent messages to those that donated directly, not that you would know, setting expectations there instead of publicly as I didn't release I had to answer to you or anyone else on this.

 

I have not posted an iso yet for that exact reason. And whether I'm waiting or in talks with is just a matter of semantics.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

Link to comment

No involvement of LimeTech. A completely new completely 100% independent development. Starting with what can be used from unRAID (no emhttp) and developing something without any future involvement of LimeTech. Can you get it now?

 

Have you ever owned / operated a Business? I ask because there are a MILLIONS reason why Tom should not listen to your advice.

 

Like I have said elsewhere...

 

1. It's not 2005 anymore (When unRAID came out).

 

2. Hardware, Software, Virtualization, NAS, Linux, etc. has changed / innovated A LOT since then and what home users want / are doing with it. It's also only going to grow more and more popular.

 

3. Untold MILLIONS are cutting the cord on cable, satelittle, etc. and moving to XBMC, Rocku, Boxee, Apple TV, Google Play, etc. devices.

 

4. FreeNAS / NAS4Free, and all the other ZFS based NAS devices can't do what we are talking about here because BSD doesn't play well in a virtual environment like it does in Linux and they only have a half working port of KVM. Not to mention the complexity of increasing the array size / upgrading hard drives.

 

5. ESXi 5.5 is already putting the "squeeze" on the home market and from my discussions various Client VMWare Account Reps and VPs at VMWare World it's only going to get worse going forward.

 

Excluding ESXi, XenServer, people who run KVM, Xen on Linux, Proxmox, NAS4Free, all the various BSD / Solaris ZFS NAS solutions, people who purchase QNAS like appliances, etc... and ONLY using FreeNAS as an example (which doesn't have all the capabilities we describe here), it has 5.6 Million Downloads.

 

If ONLY 10% of the FreeNAS people (500,000) and all the others I excluded above (less than 1% of 1% of the overall home NAS market) were to pay $50 for the unRAID we are describing... That is $25,000,000 in new additional revenue.

 

Now we have already established the fact that I already have an "unRAID fork" that exceeds Toms. I have a 64-Bit version, I have Virtualization built in, it's faster, I can do encryption, you can run a Desktop, run LVMs, thin provisioning, monitoring tools, notifications (text / email), reporting, tons of WebGUIs to manage it, Samba 4, NFS 4, VirtFS, run any Linux Application you want (You don't have to hope / pray some writes a complicated plugin that may or may not work and hope he continue to support it), XBMC, etc. all of which is updated through an "unRAID Fork" repo. You want to update "unRAID fork".... "yum update" (If CentOS)... "apt-get upgrade" (if Debian)... etc. and a nice ISO from which to install it.

 

I alone can also run circles around Tom when it comes to development times / cycles, innovating, enhancements, education, writing guides, answering questions, providing support, communicating, etc. (Imagine if the all Linux / unRAID / WebGUI / Plugin Gurus on here who you want to go away worked together). Given a few weeks / month I will have Dual / Triple parity working. Plus I will move the "unRAID fork" from Reiser to BTRFS instead. If you value your data so much. You will want more than one parity drive, want metadata file checking from the file all the way up through the block device level, deduplication, snapshots, CoW, speed increases, (which unRAID can't do now) and a bunch advantages that I do not feel like listing.

 

Let's dwindle the number I used earlier from 500,000 to 50,000... which is 1,000% of 1% of the CURRENT marketplace (and only going to grow). If over the next 5 years and the user only paying $50. You are still talking about $2,500,000.

 

Your advice to Tom and all of us...

 

Is to tell Me, Ironic, Ford, Peter_sm and A LOT of others who have already contributed to making unRAID better to screw off (partner up) and go create a competing product that instantly is better than his, would be supported better than his, documented better than his, marketed better than his, developed faster than his, incorporate innovations faster than his, etc. and lose out on all those new and existing customers?

 

Please tell me how that benefits Tom in any way. With his new / existing customers that want the things we have discussed, financially, long term survival, etc?

 

If anything, that makes the job of ONE guy more difficult trying to keep up with a TEAM of talented people who have a lot more time, energy, dedication and can put more effort / development in a few days into making "unRAID fork" than what Tom does over 2+ years (unRAID 5.0 rollout and 3+ years for 64-Bit).

 

How long do think unRAID users are going to sit here not getting a 64-Bit version after 3+ years when I did it (just one guy) in 30 minutes to an hour. How long do you think unRAID users are going to sit here when it goes weeks / months without a word from Tom? How long do you think unRAID users will sit here when there is a "unRAID fork" that has a better File System, Documentation, Guides, Dual / Triple Parity, No more plugin hassles or waiting for someone to write one, etc. How long do you think users will sit here when they see a competing product where the TEAM of developers actually respond / assist / support users when they have problems and post it? I have a working emhttp already that I quickly wrote. Look how quick Boxcar / Dynamix / Simplyfeatures was developed. Imagine if those guys were being paid / compensated to develop one? You think it might be better than Toms (which the SimplyFeatures guy did most of the work in the new one that still isn't finished)?

 

Myself and others have done all the WORK and WE are TRYING to hand that over to Tom and the community for FREE.

 

If Tom doesn't want it, doesn't think his existing or future customers would benefit from it and he takes your advice... As a business person, I do not believe that would be effective long term strategy, he is only making his life more difficult and I also think he would be leaving a lot of money on the table too.

Link to comment

Your advice to Tom and all of us...

 

Is to tell Me, Ironic, Ford, Peter_sm and A LOT of others who have already contributed to making unRAID better to screw off (partner up) and go create a competing product that instantly is better than his, would be supported better than his, documented better than his, marketed better than his, developed faster than his, incorporate innovations faster than his, etc. and lose out on all those new and existing customers?

 

I posted that if anyone wants to work on a fork then they need to do it somewhere else and I even defined fork to be clear on the meaning of the word. Obviously, you have a problem comprehending what you read.

 

Link to comment

It seems this topic is going to spill all over the forum in other areas.

Please keep it civil.  On the topic of Running unRAID on other Distros, fork(), co-development, independent development and/or such that.

 

I'll post this as a reminder.

"If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind".

 

 

 

Link to comment

After all that's being said on the deleted thread I think it's time for Tom to  intervine and clear the air. The silence is not helping nor will it stop what just happened.

 

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

I would very much like this to happen. Thank you please!

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

Link to comment

I've been mostly watching the various threads on this subject with some interest, I am enamoured with the possibility of not having to pass through sata ports on my motherboard as it's an all or nothing affair with the six ports on my board all being on the same controller.

This would give me the option of using some for booting/data stores and the rest for my unraid VM.

 

I'd also like the possibility of running an instance of XBMC on the linux distro.

 

My personal preference is for headless for the rest of the linux distro and using ssh/webgui's to administer things.

 

I don't have a favourite distro, just something that's easily upgradeable and has a package manager will do me.

Link to comment

I've been mostly watching the various threads on this subject with some interest, I am enamoured with the possibility of not having to pass through sata ports on my motherboard as it's an all or nothing affair with the six ports on my board all being on the same controller.

This would give me the option of using some for booting/data stores and the rest for my unraid VM.

 

I'd also like the possibility of running an instance of XBMC on the linux distro.

 

My personal preference is for headless for the rest of the linux distro and using ssh/webgui's to administer things.

 

I don't have a favourite distro, just something that's easily upgradeable and has a package manager will do me.

 

So not Slackware then? :)

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

 

Link to comment

I posted that if anyone wants to work on a fork then they need to do it somewhere else and I even defined fork to be clear on the meaning of the word. Obviously, you have a problem comprehending what you read.

 

Tom is aware of the fork discussion and participated in the now-removed thread and (to me) seemed interested in the discussion. So it stands to reason that Tom doesn't think that the discussion shouldn't be on his forums.

Link to comment

I posted that if anyone wants to work on a fork then they need to do it somewhere else and I even defined fork to be clear on the meaning of the word. Obviously, you have a problem comprehending what you read.

 

Right.

 

I made a ton of compelling arguments why technically, support wise, reliability / integrity wise (metadata from file all the way up to the block device level, dual / triple parity), functionality wise, investment wise and even financially in a business case for you and everyone else a few posts back.

 

Are you actually going to refute any of those, contribute to the conversation or just stick to person attacks and defying the multiple warnings from the Mods?

 

Here is yet another reason why people might want to use an "unRAID fork"...

 

Over the next couple of years we are all going to be converting TBs of Media files from x.264 to x.265 and free up 40% (or more) of space those files use today and still retain the same audio / video quality.

 

I'm going to go out on a strong limb and guess that many users would like to take advantage of this and not have to invest money into into expanding / adding / increasing the hard drives they have.

 

In the "unRAID fork", you wouldn't have to pray / hope / wait that someone writes a plugin for a webGUI that does not exist and may or may not work. In the "unRAID fork", you could install it TODAY / NOW... ONCE (Hell I when even write a step by step guide with screenshots) and use a GUI from the "unRAID fork" on your Windows / Mac machine to queue up your entire library and start the process in the background / walk away while everything is done on the "unRAID fork" Server utilizing the horsepower (64 Bit, all the memory, CPUs, etc.) it has.

 

Since you probably have no idea technically how to do this and I know damn well you will not write a plugin for a GUI that unRAID can't install.... Are going to wait / hope / pray that someone post instructions how to install the required software in Slackware so you can do it command line? Do this over the network where your laptop reads it from the server, does the conversion on your laptop and then copies it back down to the server?

 

Current development of unRaid OS will continue:

- webGui improvements

- implementation of features long on the todo list such as alerts, btrfs cache pool, plugin manager, etc. etc.

 

Next, using components from 64-bit unRaid OS, for example, emhttp, as a starting point, there will be

a "fork" project with these goals:

- let key unRaid components work smoothly in other distros (eg, emhttp)

- creation of a rpm (or other package type) of these key components

 

unRaid-fork will permit you to install onto say CentOS or ubuntu, etc.  Someone could also generate,

for example, a CentOS-unRaid install disk.

 

Several concepts change with the unRaid-fork:

- you have a system disk to manage (actually you are just managing the base distro as intended)

- some things might no longer be directly controlled by emhttp, for example, the networking protocols,

in particular Active Directory and AFP.

- the idea is that emhttp becomes in some ways like mdadm in that it lets you configure assigned storage

devices and manage unRaid-style shares.

- there will probably be several more conceptual changes

 

It could very well end up this version of unRaid becomes entirely open source, but this is not

the decision at present.

 

You have been attacking me non-stop for days and you are not the one who is privy to conversations that Tom and I are having and where I am assisting. You are making of fool of yourself at this point so please stop or go NAS Distro hopping until you find one that wants to remain stuck in 2005.

 

Either that or you need to do a much better job or getting users in your camp and start a email campaign to Tom on how detrimental it is to have an OPTIONALLY and completely SEPARATE unRAID version that you can choose to install or not. Otherwise, you soon are going to be a very unhappy customer.

 

Let's leave telling them to go elsewhere up to Tom. We've made him aware of this.

Your point is duly noted. Please stop.

 

Tom, Mods, me and others have connected the dots for you... Do we need to color it in for you too?

 

Link to comment

I posted that if anyone wants to work on a fork then they need to do it somewhere else and I even defined fork to be clear on the meaning of the word. Obviously, you have a problem comprehending what you read.

 

Tom is aware of the fork discussion and participated in the now-removed thread and (to me) seemed interested in the discussion. So it stands to reason that Tom doesn't think that the discussion shouldn't be on his forums.

 

You too need to read my definition of fork.

 

Tom showed interest in a collaborative effort, not a fork as I defined it.

 

Link to comment

You too need to read my definition of fork.

 

Tom showed interest in a collaborative effort, not a fork as I defined it.

 

WRONG AGAIN! See above!

 

Wow. Please go back and read how I defined a fork.

 

Read it. Comprehend it. Let what I wrote sink in. I did it so it would be clear what I meant when I wrote fork to avoid ambiguity on the subject. Please tell me how a new independent unrelated storage solution will in any way benefit LimeTech.

 

 

Link to comment

Arguing the semantics of the definition of a fork is really wasting my time.  I don't care how one defines a fork.  I don't care what lionelhutz (or other non-Limetech employees) thinks is okay or not okay.  As far as I can determine lionelhutz has not communicated personally with Tom about any of this.  It appears crystal clear to me that Tom is fully aware of the discussion of the 'alternative' unRAID development, has contributed towards the discussion, and has indicated his willingness to continue the discussion, and possible help with the project.  It seems very clear that any resistance to any alternative should come directly from Tom, or perhaps the moderators relaying his sentiments here.

 

Short of that communication, I respectfully request that any further comments 'against' the alternative, or any comments which are not directly related to furthering the alternative development be placed in some other thread devoted to the discussion of why this alternative development is a bad thing.  All persons that wish to 'pile on' with further complaints, or threats, or disagreements or anything which is not obviously positive towards this development can join in and continue that line of thought separate from this thread.

 

I, personally, VERY much want to see this developed further, and hope that I can use this wonderful information to do even half of the things I've seen grumpybutfun explain repeatedly.  I see this development as inevitable.  I suspect Tom does also.  I imagine that Tom is a bit afraid of what he sees here, and is weighing his options on how he can embrace this and continue his unRAID product.

 

I hope that Tom, iconic, grumpy, Ford and others have a nice, long, productive discussion on how to bring these benefits to us as soon as possible.

 

Furthermore, I'm VERY concerned that this constant complaining and attacking will result in this development going elsewhere, and us losing the benefits of a positive collaboration.  I don't think I would have continued to attempt to be helpful after all I've seen.  I respect those who continue to try to bring these improvements to us, free of charge.  I've paid for 2 unRAID licenses, and am only using one.  I'm happy I've paid Tom for his work, and I hope this development brings income to all involved.

 

PLEASE, keep this thread for positive discussion ONLY.  PLEASE!!!

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.