Narthur Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hello! I'm working on planning my first unRAID setup. Since I'm an academy student, this will be an extreme budget starter setup. I won't be buying for the paid version of unRAID so I will be limited to three drives (which I already have). I'm not all that knowledgeable when it comes to hardware, so any advice you all could give me would be great. I'm using Kapperz' budget setup as a kind of guide to my own. CASE: Linkworld 313-06-C2228 Black/ Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $20.99 Motherboard: ECS A780GM-A Ultra AM2+/AM3 AMD 780G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $74.99 ($53.99 with mail-in rebate) PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Retail - $49.99 ($39.99 with mail-in rebate) CPU: AMD Athlon 64 LE-1640 Lima 2.7GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core Processor - Retail - $39.00 RAM: G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model F2-6400PHU1-1GBNR - Retail - $24.99 Total: ~$210 (~$180 with mail-in rebate) I already own the hard drives: Two 1TB drives and one 232gb drive. ATM they are all in external cases. I know one is 3.5", and all the cases are roughly the same size, so I'm assuming they are all 3.5" drives inside. Again, any suggestions would be appreciated! Link to comment
RobJ Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Your motherboard supports 6 SATA drives already, so you don't need the 3 SATA controllers (which would support an additional 6 drives, 12 total). Your case has 5 internal 3.5" bays and 2 external, plus 4 external 5 1/4" bays. All you need are the internal bays, install one drive in the top slot, one in the bottom, and one in the middle for good separation. The one question mark I see is the motherboard itself. It has not been tested here, and although the chipsets are similar to some on tested boards, they aren't identical. It is possible therefore that the board is not yet supported with the current Linux kernels. I can say that I think your chances are pretty good, but I can't say better than that. If it were me, I would look for the cheapest board that is also widely used. I assume you have examined the Hardware Compatibility page? This GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 might be a better choice, for the same money. Any PSU should be fine, for only 3 drives, but we always recommend quality. I'd look for an inexpensive Sparkle, they are usually excellent quality for the money. By the way, I suspect you are used to different forum software, that forms the URL's differently. If you hover your mouse over your links, you will see quotes and an extra "http://" that are ruining the links. Link to comment
BRiT Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Not only do you not need that many add-in PCI Express SATA controller cards, but that motherboard has only 1 16x PCI Express and 1 1x PCI Express slot. If you needed more SATA controllers you would have to roll with normal PCI. One thing to double-check before you pull the trigger, does that motherboard support running a non-graphics card in the 16x PCI Express slot? Some will only run graphics in that slot. Another item to check is if the motherboard disables the built-in video if any card is plugged into that slot. Link to comment
Kaygee Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 The abit A-S78H uses a RS780L chipset so that board *should* work OK. The Gigabyte is tested though and similar money, I'd go with the gigabyte. Skip the drive cage, not needed, just another component to go wrong IMO, you shouldn't need to swap drives that often, looks pretty but in reality no real benefit. For CPU pick up a LE-1100, 1200 or 1300, will save a few bucks and it will be more than fast enough. If you can find a cheap 2650e (11w) or 3250e(22w) even better. PSU around 400W from a reputable manufacturer will allow you to add a few more drives without upgrading. Try looking for a Kingston KVR800D2N6K2/2G 2GB kit (2x1Gb DDR2 6400 - CL6) you should be able to locate them for around $30.00. With parity you will only have 1.232 TB free, I'd pickup another 1TB drive with the savings from the PCI-e cards, cpu and drive cage. Remember parity drive must be same size or larger than the largest drive in the array. Link to comment
Narthur Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Your motherboard supports 6 SATA drives already, so you don't need the 3 SATA controllers (which would support an additional 6 drives, 12 total). Your case has 5 internal 3.5" bays and 2 external, plus 4 external 5 1/4" bays. All you need are the internal bays, install one drive in the top slot, one in the bottom, and one in the middle for good separation. The one question mark I see is the motherboard itself. It has not been tested here, and although the chipsets are similar to some on tested boards, they aren't identical. It is possible therefore that the board is not yet supported with the current Linux kernels. I can say that I think your chances are pretty good, but I can't say better than that. If it were me, I would look for the cheapest board that is also widely used. I assume you have examined the Hardware Compatibility page? This GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 might be a better choice, for the same money. Sounds like a good option. Changed, and SATA controller cards removed. Any PSU should be fine, for only 3 drives, but we always recommend quality. I'd look for an inexpensive Sparkle, they are usually excellent quality for the money. Sparkle PSU found. It only had two SATA power connectors (that I could tell) so I threw in a SATA power splitter. By the way, I suspect you are used to different forum software, that forms the URL's differently. If you hover your mouse over your links, you will see quotes and an extra "http://" that are ruining the links. Thanks for the tip! Links fixed. One thing to double-check before you pull the trigger, does that motherboard support running a non-graphics card in the 16x PCI Express slot? Some will only run graphics in that slot. Another item to check is if the motherboard disables the built-in video if any card is plugged into that slot. Were you talking about the other motherboard or the Gigabyte board suggested by RobJ? I'm assuming you were referring to the older one, as the Gigabyte one has apparently been used successfully in other people's unRAID setups. For CPU pick up a LE-1100, 1200 or 1300, will save a few bucks and it will be more than fast enough. If you can find a cheap 2650e (11w) or 3250e(22w) even better. I'm having a bit of trouble deciphering this... Simple searches on Newegg aren't pulling anything up. Would you care to elaborate? PSU around 400W from a reputable manufacturer will allow you to add a few more drives without upgrading. The Sparkle PSU I selected is 350W. I doubt I'll be shelling out the money to upgrade the unRAID software anytime soon. Remember, I'm an academy student. lol I'm poor! Try looking for a Kingston KVR800D2N6K2/2G 2GB kit (2x1Gb DDR2 6400 - CL6) you should be able to locate them for around $30.00. Would this be necessary for only three drives? Any 2GB kits or sets I can find right off are upwards of $40.00. With parity you will only have 1.232 TB free, I'd pickup another 1TB drive with the savings from the PCI-e cards, cpu and drive cage. Remember parity drive must be same size or larger than the largest drive in the array. Ok. Not sure how soon I'll be able to go for one, but it's definitely in my long-term plans. Thanks for the help, guys! I really appreciate it. Any other thoughts? Link to comment
Kaygee Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Newegg dont seem to stock any of these processors, all deactivated items. Their is an LE-1300 on fleabay for 24.99 (item 200391752584). Their is also a AMD 2650e for 24.99 (item 380164063638). Sparkle 350W would be a good budget choice. 1GB ram will be fine. Id buy a single 1GB at least (item 130331009171 @ $22.00), you can then add another 1Gb without having to sell the existing ones. I paid £16/$20 for two of these recently here in the UK - he has since put the price up! Link to comment
RobJ Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 There is one 'gotcha' that you should know about, concerning Gigabyte boards, the HPA it likes to install on drives attached to motherboard connectors. Please see http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=3894.msg34327#msg34327 for some advice about this. I would suggest installing a data drive or 2 first, into the first SATA ports, and booting with them, then shut down and install your prospective parity drive connected to a higher numbered port. Once you are aware of this issue and work around it, it is not a big deal. Link to comment
Narthur Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Newegg dont seem to stock any of these processors, all deactivated items. Their is an LE-1300 on fleabay for 24.99 (item 200391752584). Their is also a AMD 2650e for 24.99 (item 380164063638). Sparkle 350W would be a good budget choice. 1GB ram will be fine. Id buy a single 1GB at least (item 130331009171 @ $22.00), you can then add another 1Gb without having to sell the existing ones. I paid £16/$20 for two of these recently here in the UK - he has since put the price up! I don't think I'll be getting anything from eBay, if that's what you're referring to. Too much of a hassle. There is one 'gotcha' that you should know about, concerning Gigabyte boards, the HPA it likes to install on drives attached to motherboard connectors. Please see http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=3894.msg34327#msg34327 for some advice about this. I would suggest installing a data drive or 2 first, into the first SATA ports, and booting with them, then shut down and install your prospective parity drive connected to a higher numbered port. Once you are aware of this issue and work around it, it is not a big deal. Thanks for the advice! I've been (slowly) reading the compatibility wiki. It seems that both my PSU and SATA cables are well below accepted standards. Is this acceptable for only using three drives? Can I get away with it? Link to comment
Kaygee Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I've been (slowly) reading the compatibility wiki. It seems that both my PSU and SATA cables are well below accepted standards. Is this acceptable for only using three drives? Can I get away with it? Most people design their servers around their expected future usage or the max numbers of hdd their case could be expected to hold. With three drives a 250w psu would probably be fine... here is the calc, 45w cpu, 60w drives, 40w mb, 2w nic, 2w usb. 149W. Assuming 60% 12v capability, 250W psu. In realife your sytem will draw around 60-75% of that. Previous gen cpus(some mdern ones too) and mb needed lots of psu power, in addition gpu power consumption can be enormous - 300w for a single card. A cpu capable of running unraid can be a few watts, likewise mb, gpu needs to output text, hdd will be spun down most of the time. Startup will be when the psu does most of its work in an unraid system, next would be during parity check/build. Whilst a 250W psu should work fine, I would not recomend it. Stick to 350W psu, it will last you a few years and allow you to add a few more drives quite happily or put a quad core cpu in the sytem without having to put in another psu. I wouldnt go putting a hd3870 gpu in their though. With regard to sata power, psu leads are "better" becaue they supply 3.3, 5 and 12v. As hdd move toward greener disks, low powered drives might start to use 3.3v, sata power from molex splitters only supply 5/12v. Having said this most mb, gpu and cpu power supplies are now provided from 12v psu lines. Until molex psus are phased out and the majority of the install base is molex free I cant see this happening. Link to comment
lionelhutz Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I've been using one of these for over a year now and absolutely no trouble. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135231 - $45 There is a $50 one that has a DVI port but is otherwise the same if you decide that DVI might be something you'd want for the future. It works good, no HPA problems, has a fairly low power draw (<50W idle) and is prettty fast. I would try to this supply before that one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008 It'll easily suppport 8 drives with the other hardware you've picked. Peter Link to comment
Rajahal Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Another good quality yet budget friendly line of PSUs are the Antec Earthwatts. I'm currently running that same PSU (380 W) in my unRAID box, and it supports 8 drives, no problem. The full specs of my unRAID box are in my sig below. Link to comment
Narthur Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ok. Based on what you guys are saying, I think I'm going to leave the PSU the same. Is this ECS motherboard safe to use in place of the Gigabyte one recommended earlier? Link to comment
Kaygee Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Looks like a good candidate, SB700 is a good choice speedwise, 6 sata ports. Ideal. Link to comment
lionelhutz Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 The Corsair is $39.99 after rebate and has 6 SATA connectors. Corsair is 80plus certified. Your PS + splitter add up to $43.98. I never looked up the Sparkle before but now I see it has dual 12V rails which is not a very good idea for unRAID. If you add more drives you could overload one rail. Peter Link to comment
Rajahal Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I agree, the Corsair PSU is a much better deal (if you consider the quality/price ratio). Having a single rail PSU is worth it. Corsair rebates are annoying (because they come on a prepaid debit card that pretty much no one will accept), but they do come, eventually. The ECS motherboard you linked does not look very ideal to me...it has no gigabit LAN! See this line: Max LAN Speed 10/100Mbps - that's bad. You want one that looks like: Max LAN Speed 10/100/1000Mbps Spend an extra $10 and get a mobo with gigabit LAN, you won't regret it. The Gigabyte looks fine, or you could find a different brand with similar specs so that you don't have to worry about the HPA issue (which I'll admit, is very annoying and a good enough reason for me to avoid Gigabyte mobo's in the future). I'm currently running my unRAID server on this mobo: BIOSTAR A760G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $64.99 and here's the same mobo in an open box for a bit cheaper: Open Box: BIOSTAR A760G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $42.99 Though I haven't done Level 1 testing on this board yet, it seems to work just fine (and has been for several weeks). The CPU you linked in your original post will work on this mobo, or you could get the same one I'm using - it really wouldn't matter since the specs are almost identical (except for the socket type, but both will work on this board): AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor - $39.99 For unRAID, you want to try to take a middle-of-the-road approach. You certainly don't need top-of-the-line components, but you don't want crap either. Skimping on the CPU and RAM is fine, but if you skimp on the power supply and motherboard (specifically regarding the number of onboard SATA slots and the network interface controller), you will regret it. Considering we are talking about a difference of maybe $20 at most here, I think this should be an easy decision. So my recommended extreme budget build is: CASE: Linkworld 313-06-C2228 Black/ Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $20.99 Motherboard: Open Box: BIOSTAR A760G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $42.99 PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - $39.99 after Mail In Rebate CPU: AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor - $39.99 RAM: G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model F2-6400PHU1-1GBNR - Retail - $19.99 Total: $163.95 plus shipping plus maybe another $10 for SATA cables if you don't have them already (since they may not come with the open box mobo) Link to comment
Kaygee Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 it has no gigabit LAN! Newegg made a [glow=red,2,300] mistake [/glow]thats all, board has Gb... Here is the blurb from ECS website. See pros comment from the first Newegg customer review, has gigabit... http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?CategoryID=1&DetailID=864&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=1&LanID=0 The A740GM-M motherboard supports the AMD Phenom™ processor (AM2+). It based on AMD740G Chipset with SB700, support dual-channel DDR2 memory up to DDR2 800. This model support both DVI and VGA output for dual display application. Adding Gigabit LAN support, the A740GM-M motherboard is an ideal choice that brings you outstanding performance at competitive price. In addition ECS are a good and reputable MB manufacturer, I have owned several ECS motherboards and still do run one of them, 24/7 no issues. In addition there are recent bios updates available for this board, which means ECS consider it a current motherboard. In addition it runs at a low power, has been sucessfully used for a year by another unraid owner. Is cheaper (retail not open box) and no HPA issue (easily worked around admitedly). Cant go wrong. Link to comment
Rajahal Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ah, ok, that makes sense. In that case, it looks to be better than the Biostar board I linked since it has been tested for so much longer and is cheaper. It is, however, out of stock. <3 auto notify.... Link to comment
lionelhutz Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Here's another open box available right now too; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135076R Peter Link to comment
PhilH Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 +1 on the Corsair power supply. I have several of that brand in different machines & they are rock solid.. Link to comment
kapperz Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks for using my build as a bases (pimp). I agree with Rajahal. Don't skimp on the MB or PSU. Plan for the future with your case too. Hard drives will get bigger and cheaper so you can still gain storage with limited drive bays (maybe squeeze in a HDD cage later). I have no doubt you will have more data a year from now and changing a MB/case/PSU is kind of a hassle. I would recommend quality when it comes to power a supply. A lower watt, but quality PSU will produce "clean" (no noise) & solid power even when utilizing 90% of its rated power than a cheap PSU at 50%. Link to comment
Narthur Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks for all the advice, guys! I've incorporated several more of your suggestions. So what do you think? Is this setup complete? Link to comment
Rajahal Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Can anyone confirm that the ECS board can run an AM3 CPU? It should work (since all AM2+ mobo's should be able to run AM3 CPUs), but it would be better if we knew for sure. If no one can confirm this, you may want to switch back to the AM2 CPU you previously had in your list just so you are absolutely sure it will all work out of the box. Sorry if my suggestions screwed you up Other than that potential problem, I think you are good to go. Edit: One of the reviews on the ECS mobo specifically mentions it working with the AMD Sempron 140 AM3 CPU, though you may have to flash (update) the BIOS first: I paired this with a Sempron 140 processor....I flashed the BIOS to the latest version as it added support for the Sempron processor. Link to comment
c234rmf Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=4023.0 Works great for me - was fry's special - think it was like $50 with a cpu. (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 5200+ (G2)(45W) 2600MHz (512KB x2,2000,Socket AM2 ) some am3 devices supported cpu list here: http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Support/CPU_Support_Model.aspx?detailid=864&MenuID=69&LanID=0 Link to comment
Narthur Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 I haven't been able to get the ECS A740 board. It's out of stock or unavailable everywhere I look. Is it not being produced anymore? It looks like this is one version higher. However, it hasn't been tested. What should I do? Link to comment
lionelhutz Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 That board should work. Others are using 780g chipset boards successfully so there's no reason to believe the ECS version will have a problem. There is also a Gigabyte 740G motherboard in the same price range as the ECS board. If you purhase it, set-up the data hard drives first without connecting the parity because it seems that board will add a HPA block to one of the drives. If it gets added to the parity then the parity will be smaller than the data drives and not usable as parity. Give it the chance to add it to the data drives first. Also, go into the bios and hit I believe Shift-F1 and look for the option to turn this off - it will be something about backing the bios up to the hard drive. Peter Link to comment
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