Hardware requirements for unRAID server with storage, dockers, and virtual machines

[Living Legend]

When I first built my NAS, I was convinced it was only going to be serving media files to clients throughout the home.  I purchased the below thinking it was overkill:

 

M/B: ASRock - B75M R2.0
CPU: Intel® Pentium® CPU G2120 @ 3.10GHz
Memory: 8 GB (max. installable capacity 16 GB)

PSU: Corsair HX 750

3 WD 3TB Red for storage

1 WD 3TB Red for Parity

1 64GB Kingston SSD for Cache
 

 

As unRAID progressed and I became more comfortable with what I was doing, I started using some of the common dockers like CP/Sonarr/Deluge/NZBGet.  I've added plenty of others like MariaDB, MythTV, Plex and numerous more.

 

I also have an Ubuntu VM I use from time to time for compiling purposes, as well as a recently added LibreELEC VM to assist with library updating.

 

I can't say that I've yet to be held back by my hardware, but looking at resource monitors, I notice that I'm very quickly approaching my limits.   I'm now becoming more selective with adding dockers, and have hesitated to dabble with other VMs knowing that I don't have the resources.

 

With that said, I was surprised to see that there wasn't a basic sticky with FAQ or recommended minimum requirements.  Something like:

 

To serve media, you need this:

For limited docker use, you need this:

For many dockers, start with this:

For dockers & virtual machines, we'd advise this:

 

Obviously there are a multitude of variables, especially when it comes to virtual machine additions.

 

With that said, does anyone have any baseline recommendations on the type of memory/CPU they would advise for a full fledged system running 24/7, regularly streaming media, running 10-20 dockers, and a couple virtual machines?  Certain types of minimum processor recommendations?  Minimum RAM?

 

 

[Squid]

11 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

With that said, I was surprised to see that there wasn't a basic sticky with FAQ or recommended minimum requirements.  Something like:

 

To serve media, you need this:

For limited docker use, you need this:

For many dockers, start with this:

For dockers & virtual machines, we'd advise this:

https://lime-technology.com/hardware-recommendations/

 

https://lime-technology.com/hardware-requirements/

 

But, as you already noted, hardware recommendations have a wide variety of variables.

 

My AMD Sempron system runs a headless VM 24-7.

 

My main system AMD A8-6600K has 2 VM's (my main HTPC and my main desktop) along with a multitude of docker apps running constantly, and this would definitely be considered massive underkill by many users around here.

 

The real main considerations are:

 

How many concurrent transcoding streams from Plex do you want to run concurrently

and What exactly do you use the VM for?

 

I at worst utilize one stream via Plex, and I don't particularly game.  So my system actually exceeds my requirements, but doesn't even come close to other's requirements

Edited March 31, 2017 by Squid

[Living Legend]

34 minutes ago, Squid said:

https://lime-technology.com/hardware-recommendations/

 

https://lime-technology.com/hardware-requirements/

 

But, as you already noted, hardware recommendations have a wide variety of variables.

 

My AMD Sempron system runs a headless VM 24-7.

 

My main system AMD A8-6600K has 2 VM's (my main HTPC and my main desktop) along with a multitude of docker apps running constantly, and this would definitely be considered massive underkill by many users around here.

 

The real main considerations are:

 

How many concurrent transcoding streams from Plex do you want to run concurrently

and What exactly do you use the VM for?

 

I at worst utilize one stream via Plex, and I don't particularly game.  So my system actually exceeds my requirements, but doesn't even come close to other's requirements

 

Little confused.  So you have two systems, both running unRAID?  Why two vs one?

 

To answer your questions and follow up with a few of my own:

 

1. I really do a minimal amount of Plex transcoding, one max.  Most of the time, I simply serve media to a Kodi clients without transcoding.  I'm running 10-15 dockers right now and have minimal VM usage.  How do you feel my specs stack up for this usage?

 

2. Out of curiosity, what is the physical structure of your desktop environment?  Do you run a thin client which then remotes into the VM, or are all of your peripherals attached to the NAS?  I've always wondered.  If I went hardcore on the unRAID hardware, what would be the optimal way to run a desktop environment in another room in the home without running a bunch of long cables.  If I were to add a couple virtual machines running Windows that were meant for basic web browsing, media viewing, data processing, what changes do you think would need to be made to the current hardware, and how would you advise setting up these remote virtual machines?

Edited March 31, 2017 by Living Legend

[Squid]

3 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

Why two vs one?

Price of cases.  Cheaper for me to pick up a 2nd mid-range mobo et al and another 12bay hotswap case rather than a high-end mob and a 24bay case to expand into.  Probably going to be hitting a 3rd in a month or so.   That, and I try and apply simple Return On Investment to purchases.  IE:  Am I better off spending extra $$ on running a separate system in electricity or spending the money to expand it to the point where I would only need 1.  The balance sheet firmly showed that over the expected lifetime of the components that I would be far further ahead by spending more on electricity.

 

5 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

2. Out of curiosity, what is the physical structure of your desktop environment?  Do you run a thin client which then remotes into the VM, or are all of your peripherals attached to the NAS?

Physical structure of the main desktop VM are 12 Gig memory (server has 24), 3 of the 4 cores allocated to it, and passed through video and usb controllers.

 

My rack sits next to my desk, so nothing is extended, except for the hdmi on 2nd passed through card for the HTPC.  (50' active cable)

12 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

.  If I went hardcore on the unRAID hardware, what would be the optimal way to run a desktop environment in another room in the home without running a bunch of long cables.

 

Research, research, research.  First stop I would make on that journey without long cabling is to inquire at a high-end video install shop (ie: the guys that do professional installs of uber high-end home theaters) and get their opinion on how to do it.  Reviews from say Newegg, forums etc are always varied.  Ask the guys who actually know the answer.  Last thing you want is video degradation from doing things wireless.  That being said, it is fairly inexpensive to run HDMI / USB over CAT 5/6.

18 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

If I were to add a couple virtual machines running Windows that were meant for basic web browsing, media viewing, data processing, what changes do you think would need to be made to the current hardware,

My rather low-end hardware is more than sufficient for my needs which are pretty much identical to what you listed, with only one Plex stream (and the odd game when I'm bored). (And I can't really tell that it's not bare metal)   I wouldn't try and do more than one desktop VM on what I've got though.  

 

BUT, and it's big but is that IOMMU support (hardware passthrough) is definitely a caveat emptor situation.  Different motherboards support it better than others (and larger price doesn't necessarily mean better IOMMU support), and even where it says it supports it, it might not be stable.  When I started my VM experiment, I purposely kept my previous standalone desktop in working order just in case nothing worked properly (haven't had to turn it on in almost a year now).  I managed to luck out on my motherboard choice...

 

No matter what hardware you do decide to pick up, expect to spend time tuning it for the best possible performance you can get.

 

If I was going to do this all over again from scratch, without attempting to keep component cost as inexpensive as possible, I would definitely have gone a different way.  Ultimately for most users utilizing passthrough, a couple of VMs, plex streaming etc you're probably best off with an i7.  To me its major overkill, but it will pretty much guarantee you that you won't run into any unexpected performance issues.

 

 

[Living Legend]

Thanks for taking the time to write a thorough response.  Couple quick questions to what you explained:

 

12 minutes ago, Squid said:

Physical structure of the main desktop VM are 12 Gig memory (server has 24), 3 of the 4 cores allocated to it, and passed through video and usb controllers.

 

So in my hypothetical, for a system running multiple dockers and a desktop VM (we'll assume just 1 VM at the moment), you think 24GB RAM is an appropriate amount?  I'm currently running unRAID on 8 GB without issues, but I'm close to my limit.  My everyday desktop is Windows 10 i7-4790 with 8GB of RAM which runs flawlessly for my needs.  Is it as easy as saying that 8+8 is 16, and 16GB should meet my current needs, and 24GB would give me room to meet my growth demands?

 

23 minutes ago, Squid said:

 I managed to luck out on my motherboard choice...

 

What did you end up choosing?  I'm on a cheap  ASRock - B75M R2.0 now, but have not worked with hardware passthrough as I deal with all of my virtual machines through telnet and VNC.

 

I suppose I could mix and match hardware from my desktop and current unRAID setup to minimze cost.  Then I wouldn't need to buy the most expensive part, the CPU.  Case & PSU are already more than adequate.  I'd just have to look into if I needed a new MB, upgrading RAM, and possible graphics card.

[JonathanM]

22 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

So in my hypothetical, for a system running multiple dockers and a desktop VM (we'll assume just 1 VM at the moment), you think 24GB RAM is an appropriate amount?

No. When setting up a new system, use as few RAM slots as possible. Unless you are using high end server stuff (registered), each additional physical piece of memory adds electrical load that decreases stability. You would probably get away with it, most boards run fine when new with 4 sticks of RAM, but it's much preferable to only have 2 sticks. That means either 16GB (2x8) or 32GB (2x16).

 

If anything, start with a single 16GB stick and get another matching stick later if you need it.

[Squid]

5 minutes ago, jonathanm said:

If anything, start with a single 16GB stick

Ugh...   While I understand the argument, you're shooting yourself in the foot with only a single stick performance wise.  2 8GB sticks will noticeably outperform a single 16Gig.

 

41 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

Is it as easy as saying that 8+8 is 16, and 16GB should meet my current needs, and 24GB would give me room to meet my growth demands?

The real key with using 4 sticks is to read closely the mfg recommendations and stick to it.  Avoid double sided sticks (chips on both sides) like the plague when populated all 4 slots, and either make sure that all sticks are a match set (not just the same size, but the same p/n).  If you have to mix sizes between the two banks, then make sure that the CAS ratings match exactly between the two mismatch sets (MHz differences between the two sets doesn't impact stability.  CAS mismatches will)

 

46 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

What did you end up choosing?  I'm on a cheap  ASRock - B75M R2.0 now, but have not worked with hardware passthrough as I deal with all of my virtual machines through telnet and VNC.

I'm a strict AMD kinda guy, but FWIW Asus A88X-Pro.  Rock solid passthrough, and by far the best quality I/O shield I have ever seen in my life...

[JonathanM]

32 minutes ago, Squid said:

Ugh...   While I understand the argument, you're shooting yourself in the foot with only a single stick performance wise.  2 8GB sticks will noticeably outperform a single 16Gig.

I guess AMD is different. I've never been able to feel a meaningful difference except on benchmarks with my intel systems.

Edited April 1, 2017 by jonathanm

[Living Legend]

1 hour ago, Squid said:

The real key with using 4 sticks is to read closely the mfg recommendations and stick to it.

 

How are you working 24GB?  3 8GB sticks?  What type of sticks are you using?  And with what I previously mentioned, that I'm currently using 8GB on unRAID but running tight, and my desktop running Windows 10 is rock solid @ 8GB ,do you think 24GB is a good spot to be if I'd like to virtualize my desktop and have room to go?  Would you keep it at 16, or possibly just go 2 16B sticks and jump to 32?

 

Oh yeah, and if you think i7 would have been a better choice, what would you have done about the AMD MB?

Edited April 1, 2017 by Living Legend

[Squid]

11 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

How are you working 24GB?

2x4, 2x8

[Squid]

11 minutes ago, Living Legend said:

Oh yeah, and if you think i7 would have been a better choice, what would you have done about the AMD MB?

$$ vs benefit when I already had bulk of hardware.  Like I said, if I was starting from scratch I'd do things differently

[HellDiverUK]

Consider AMD's FX line of CPUs.  They're about the end of their life, with Ryzen now released, so they're super-cheap. 

 

I picked up a FX8350 and motherboard (Asus M5A97 R2.0) and used 32GB of ECC DDR3-1600 I had.  8 cores at 4GHz and motherboard for less than £200.  It's using the AMD Wraith cooler which works very well and is really quiet.

 

Power consumption is less than my old Xeon E5/X99 combo.