Which linux distro for a complete linux newbie?

[Guest]

Hi guys I was wondering which linux distro is good for a complete newbie

[JonathanM]

Mint tends to have many of the toys built in already, where you might have to go fetch and configure them on your own with the other two.

 

Do you want to learn how to set up a system with choices you make as you go, or do you want it mostly all done for you already? Saying you are a complete newbie doesn't convey what you want out of the experience.

[Guest]

Coming from a windows background I would have to say mostly done for me until I find my linux sea legs. I will check out mint. Thanks

[SSD]

I would mention that most flavors of Linux are going to be very similar from the command line. Main difference is how you load / install apps, which vary.  Some versions have access to a wider / different set of apps. I'm actually quite adept at the Linux command line.  I now like it much better than the DOS command line in windows, even if it is more difficult to master.

 

But the UI of the graphical interface of the different versions can vary to a much larger degree.  Some Linux versions support different UIs. I would suggest going to YouTube and watching some videos and getting a flavor for which UI seems most natural to you.  I did this a couple years ago and was surprised that some of the most basic things I did in Windows were done quite differently. Simple things like the app list at the bottom of the screen were unattainable or suboptimal in some of the UIs.

 

I started playing with the three OSes you mention to try them out.  I set up VMs. Had a lot of trouble as I recall getting them to install but I don't remember the details. Was able to at least run a bootable image though a VM that gave full access to the OS features. 

 

In the end I found it an annoying experience. Many of my instincts from running windows for decades were wrong. I suppose if I felt the Linux UI had significant advantages, I could have persevered, but I felt i was moving sideways and backwards so didn't really feel motivated. And not only that, I would have had to give up the apps that I have achieved guru like knowledge, including Word and Excel. I also have a text editor that people who have watched me use have said it appears the editor was reading my mind. I have written dozens of intricate macros, over about a 10 year stint where I was doing heavy software development (over 20 years ago). My fingers still remember most of the buttons as I still use it when tinkering on special projects.  Even if the Linux UI were awesome, the time to develop the kind of expertise and customizations I have with the programs I know inside out, would have been impossible to learn in Linux in any reasonable timeframe.  

 

But if loading an OS for my kid or wife, who are always running browser apps and writing the occasional letter or resume in a word processor, I'd have few qualms setting them up in Linux.

 

But don't let my experience and decisions overly influence you.  I'm older, set in my ways, opinionated,  argumentative and particular. Lots of folks have moved to Mint or Ubuntu and are very happy. And the cost is much less / free.  Don't know your reasons for wanting to switch, but certainly worth your time to check out the videos and spend a few evenings creating VMs to get your feet wet, so you'd be in a better position to decide which Linux you like best (or dislike least ;) ).

 

Will be interested in what you decide and why!

[CHBMB]

@SSD  Sounds like TL:DR "Can't teach an old dog new tricks"

 

In response to @antaresuk I would suggest Ubuntu, I'm a full time Linux desktop user and have been now for a couple of years, it's a little difficult initially as like @SSD has mentioned you do need to find completely new ways to do things, and that does take a bit of getting used to, however, it can be done.

 

Personally I find it easier to use Linux now than Windows 10, and up until a couple of years ago I was a Windows guy for the desktop too, however I was dual booting Ubuntu/Windows for a while until a Windows update hosed my Linux install and in anger and annoyance, along with increasing concerns about the data mining in Windows 10 I formatted my drive and haven't looked back.

 

The reason I'd suggest Ubuntu is just due to it being probably the most popular Linux desktop, so there's a plethora of information available.

 

I started out on Ubuntu, then tried a distro called Antergos, now have been fairly settled on Solus, but I'm prone to a little distro hopping just to try out different desktop environments and distros.

 

Not sure how much you know about Linux Desktops, but essentially there are two components.

 

1.  The distro itself, Ubuntu, Mint, Solus, Arch, Gentoo, etc etc 

2.  The desktop environment, which essentially is what it looks like on your screen.  Common ones are Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXQT, Budgie, Mate

 

The other thing to be aware of is that some distros are derivatives of other distros.  So Mint, Elementary, KDE Neon, are derivatives from Ubuntu.  Once you realise that, it does mean that most of the time, but not always, you can apply solutions to problems in Mint from the Ubuntu resources.  Or in the case of Antergos or Manjaro, from the Arch Wiki.

 

It sounds complicated but you soon get your head around it.  

 

If you want to chat about Linux some more, feel free to drop by the linuxserver.io Discord channel.

[SSD]

57 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

@SSD  Sounds like TL:DR "Can't teach an old dog new tricks"

@antaresuk

 

I did a quick search for why is Linux better than Windows and found https://itsfoss.com/linux-better-than-windows/.

 

But I'll look that these 11 from my perspective. In paren is whether I think this is an issue that would have some sway for me to switch to a different OS, and why. 

1. Open Source Nature (No perceived benefit - maybe a negative, see below)

2. Secure (Maybe, see below)

3. Can revive old computers (Yes, but only for the OS installed on that old computer, not for switching an experienced user from Windows, see below)

4. Perfect for programmers (No, not a problem I perceive in Windows)

5. Software updates (No, not a problem I perceive in Windows)

6. Customization (Maybe, but negative of Linux, see below)

7. Variety of distributions (Yes, but negative for Linux, see below)

8. Free to use (Yes, a positive or negative for Linux, see below for both aspects)

9. Better support community (No, all of Internet is support for Windows - can get answers to most any question with Google in 1 minute or less)

10. Reliability (No, not a perceived issue with Windows which hasn't crashed for me since prior to Windows 7)

11. Privacy (Yes, see below)

 

Open Source (#1) / Customization (#6) / free (in a negative way) (#8). - I'd rather the OS come with features configured based on manufacturer doing usability studies, including observing and learning from actual users experiences, and presenting the best solution. I do want some configuration - font, color, etc. Occasionally I find a missing customization that annoys me, but mostly the Windows OS and apps have the customization I need, and simple enough to be able to be performed by any user. Linux customizations can be very complex. Some require recompiling the kernel! Even the name is intimidating for 99% of users. Some equivalent customizations can be done much more simply with Windows. And I've seen some of Linux UI customization that could take days to finagle to figure out to see if anything made me like it better. I found Linux worse than Windows in this area. They are too complex to benefit most users. And are an excuse for not doing the usability studies, which are much more valuable. (And it takes money to do that, which is disadvantage of the whole open source / free "benefits".)

 

Secure (#2) - I do think Windows is slightly less secure that it should/could be. If Linux is better, that would be a plus, but expect that security vulnerabilities will continue to be found in each and resolved with updates. This is not something that I feel was a big issue with Windows, and wouldn't feel a strong motivator to switch.

 

Revive old computer (#3) / free (in a positive way) (#8) - Not applicable to me switching, but is applicable to selection of OS for a new or revived computer. If you are wanting to use a hand me down for a kid or family member with no strong OS preference, Linux might be a big plus with lighter weight and being free. If you're in a browser all day, doesn't much matter what is the OS. I myself have done one for my daughter in law with Mint (she didn't like it and I had to install Windows).

 

Privacy (#11) - I am not happy that Windows has moved in a direction that affects privacy. But there are tools to help (look at Gridrunner video on installing a Windows VM). And Google, Amazon and other Web sites are already leaking private data. I'd much rather stop those from leaking than Windows. So this is not a dealbreaker, but an issue to be managed. If Linux does a better job here, bravo. But it is not going to be enough of a benefit to push me there.

 

@CHBMB - if you gave advantages you might pick differently. Like the package manager does make it easy to install new apps (if it is included in that Linux's package manager). Probably #1 on my list. Superior command line (I love it and use unRAID's command line a lot), but you can get Linux shells that run under Windows.  I'm curious if you have anything you would deem compelling. Combating the Microsoft monopoly was one I would have listed 10-15 years ago. But now Microsoft is struggling, and I sort of feel the other way. 

 

[TSM]

A couple of months ago I installed Mint on an old laptop, and I must say that I found it easier to use than I thought I would.  My plan was to move to Mint on my main computer once I reached a descent level of comfort on the laptop.  But I never did it, and ended up dropping the project because I could never get Hulu or Netflix to work.  

 

There's lots of info online about the difficulties using Hulu and Netflix on Linux.  Lots of suggestions and solutions offered, but I could get none to work for me, 

[SSD]

3 hours ago, SSD said:

@antaresuk

@CHBMB

@TSM

7. Variety of distributions (Yes, but negative for Linux, see below)

 

 

Somehow lost my commentary on this one. And this is a biggee. The variety of distributions is a huge impediment to Linux IMO, and I think severely limits its adoption. Every person is in analysis peralysis trying to figure out what Linux version to use. I started looking at Linux because there was a specific program I wanted to run that was only available in Linux. They recommended Fedora, but Fedora was not recommended as a person's first desktop Linux. So I installed Ubuntu, arguably the most popular along with the related Mint version, and endeavored to get the program to work. It was not available in the package manager, but I found an Ubuntu version on the Internet and tried to install it. Worked fine. But it was not the latest version and lacked the feature I needed. So I kept looking and found the current version. I think I had to compile it, and it compiled. It sort of worked, but kept crashing and certain features just didn't work. Tried and tried to fix - no luck. I'm no slouch in figuring this kind of thing out, but I got frustrated and finally installed Fedora to see if the app itself was bad. The app in its latest version was it its package manager, and it installed perfectly and worked perfectly. This would never happen with Windows. So how many people are running multiple Linux distributions to access the apps they want to use? I think a large percentage. Windows has a variety of distributions, home, professional, and enterprise. Virtually any windows program will install and operate on any of them. And even on backlevel versions of Windows. I can't remember any problem ever installing a Windows app since the copy protected floppy days. The variety of Linux distributions is not a benefit at all, and a huge negative for me moving to Linux.

[pcaro]

Ubuntu is a good recommendation but nowadays kde is better for desktop (even more for a windows transition).

The best kde support and best option for a windows user,  imo, OpenSUSE.

[bonienl]

3 hours ago, SSD said:

The variety of Linux distributions is not a benefit at all, and a huge negative for me moving to Linux.

 

It reminds me of a candy (sweets) test a store did to see how choice affects sales.

 

Initially the store had only two choices available, say red and green. And they could see that one flavour was in higher demand than the other.

Next they introduced ten more choices, believing that this would increase sales as people have now more alternatives. However the opposite happened, sales went down.

Study showed that too many choices make people indicisive , where else two choices represented a simple "I like" or "I don't like" decision.

[CHBMB]

3 hours ago, SSD said:

The variety of Linux distributions is not a benefit at all, and a huge negative for me moving to Linux.

 

Depends on your point of view really.  I love the variety and have tried every desktop environment and many distros out.  It was distracting to strart with, but eventually you settle with one that makes sense to you, and I find it improves my work flow.

 

I use desktop Linux solely, have installed Linux for my Dad on his desktop, my FIL has Windows, my wife has Windows.  Ask me which one I get the most requests for a Teamviewer support session for?  (Not the wife obviously, she lives with me )

 

A good analogy is this I think.  Windows is like a family saloon car, easy to use, on the whole dependable, might have features that are undesirable, but the maintenance is easy and on the whole it just works and people feel comfortable with it.

 

Linux is like a classic sports car, it needs care and attention (especially at the start of you using it) but once you get your head around it, the possibilities are pretty amazing.

 

If someone had told me three years ago I'd have become a Linux advocate, and run it as my daily driver, I'd never have believed them.  Now I'm doing so, and am at a point now, where I'm definitely more familiar with Linux than Windows, would I ever go back?  Well you can never say never, but it's not something I can foresee happening.  Overall I'm a lot more satisfied with my desktop computing experience than I was in Windows.  Might not be the right decision for everyone, and I accept that.

 

Paradoxically I think the people who probably benefit from Linux desktop use the most are people like my parents, virtually no chance of malware, updates all taken care of in one step with the repositories and for their browsing and email use, install Firefox and Thunderbird and it's pretty much the same experience they were used to with Windows.

[JonathanM]

4 hours ago, CHBMB said:

Paradoxically I think the people who probably benefit from Linux desktop use the most are people like my parents, virtually no chance of malware, updates all taken care of in one step with the repositories and for their browsing and email use, install Firefox and Thunderbird and it's pretty much the same experience they were used to with Windows.

This, x100.

 

I see so many people being taken advantage of by those stupid popup "your computer is infected, call microsoft at 800-xxx-xxxx to clean it or your world will end" scams. I'm not saying linux is immune from malware, and if the windows users weren't such easy targets I'm sure the scammers would start targeting linux users, but for now, I'm loving not really having to worry about my 80+ year old parents getting scammed. My dad easily handles updating both mint and opensuse on their desktop and laptop, and laughs when he gets scam emails about his norton subscription expiring.

[CHBMB]

Yeah my Father In Law actually got scammed for £400 a few years ago by one of those calls.

He however clings to his Windows install and continues to call me day and night for every pop up that appears.

If I hadn't grown to love the old git so much it would drive me mad.....

[SSD]

3 hours ago, jonathanm said:

This, x100.

 

.. stupid popup "your computer is infected, call microsoft at 800-xxx-xxxx to clean it or your world will end" scams. I'm not saying linux is immune from malware, and if the windows users weren't such easy targets I'm sure the scammers would start targeting linux users, but for now, I'm loving not really having to worry ...

 

This is a good thing. My wife has gotten her Chrome browser infected with something the Antivirus doesn't find that within about 10 minutes, her browser will turn into this giant RED blinking "Emergency" and saying you are infected with things to will cause your face to be burned off with a firm female voice. I just bring up the task manager and kill it. And now I've installed Firefox until I can figure out what's going on with Chrome. 

 

This is indeed annoying. But I think other OSes are susceptible to some degree, but Windows gets the main attention because (IMO) its so darn popular.

 

8 hours ago, CHBMB said:

 

Depends on your point of view really.  I love the variety and have tried every desktop environment and many distros out.  It was distracting to strart with, but eventually you settle with one that makes sense to you, and I find it improves my work flow. 

 

I use desktop Linux solely, have installed Linux for my Dad on his desktop, my FIL has Windows, my wife has Windows.  Ask me which one I get the most requests for a Teamviewer support session for?  (Not the wife obviously, she lives with me )

 

But are you running multiple distros?

 

8 hours ago, CHBMB said:

 

A good analogy is this I think.  Windows is like a family saloon car, easy to use, on the whole dependable, might have features that are undesirable, but the maintenance is easy and on the whole it just works and people feel comfortable with it.

 

No sure what is a "family saloon car". ??????

 

8 hours ago, CHBMB said:

Linux is like a classic sports car, it needs care and attention (especially at the start of you using it) but once you get your head around it, the possibilities are pretty amazing.

 

I drive a 1990s high end sports car. And I use Windows. The horror. ?

 

8 hours ago, CHBMB said:

If someone had told me three years ago I'd have become a Linux advocate, and run it as my daily driver, I'd never have believed them.  Now I'm doing so, and am at a point now, where I'm definitely more familiar with Linux than Windows, would I ever go back?  Well you can never say never, but it's not something I can foresee happening.  Overall I'm a lot more satisfied with my desktop computing experience than I was in Windows.  Might not be the right decision for everyone, and I accept that.

 

Long on praise. Short on specifics. Still trying to understand this adoration. Maybe Linux GUIs have a secret subliminal message. Maybe you need to do a screen recording and watch it in super slo mo for an occasional frame of this:

 

 

8 hours ago, CHBMB said:

Paradoxically I think the people who probably benefit from Linux desktop use the most are people like my parents, virtually no chance of malware, updates all taken care of in one step with the repositories and for their browsing and email use, install Firefox and Thunderbird and it's pretty much the same experience they were used to with Windows.

 

This is true. Except people have gotten used to Office. Maybe you can run it in a browser. If so, you're probably right.

 

But I have a small set of must have apps (one of which I wrote) that would be hard to replace. I think I mentioned the macros I have defined that read my mind. Loosing that would set me back 30% productivity doing programming. And Word, Excel, PPT are standard business apps and I am very good with them. Even if I loved Linux, the apps issue would make me think more than twice about switching.

 

But although my desktop is Windows, I spend a pretty fair amount of time on the unRAID Linux command line, creating Linux scripts/utilities, etc. So you might say I have a foot in both camps.

[JonathanM]

1 hour ago, SSD said:

Long on praise. Short on specifics. Still trying to understand this adoration. Maybe Linux GUIs have a secret subliminal message.

For me it's this massive sense of relief. Maybe it's not really warranted, but after spending all day dealing with customer's issues with windows based systems, it's nice to kick back and relax with an OS that isn't trying to spy on me, or otherwise make my life hell. I spend so much of my life fixing screwed up windows machines, I really appreciate things that just work. It wasn't always like that, I spent many frustrating hours learning how to make a linux desktop work the way I want, but now that I'm there it sure is nice.

 

As far as the MS Office thing goes, for the average user transitioning from Word to LibreOffice Writer is no more painful than the transition from Word 2003 to 2007 was. It's pretty much just about finding the menu locations for the function you want. Document compatibility is pretty darn good, you can trade documents back and forth with MS Office users without issue. Granted, power users with macros and vbscript are not going to transition well, but for the average user, it's fine.

[SSD]

22 hours ago, jonathanm said:

For me it's this massive sense of relief. Maybe it's not really warranted, but after spending all day dealing with customer's issues with windows based systems, it's nice to kick back and relax with an OS that isn't trying to spy on me, or otherwise make my life hell. I spend so much of my life fixing screwed up windows machines, I really appreciate things that just work. It wasn't always like that, I spent many frustrating hours learning how to make a linux desktop work the way I want, but now that I'm there it sure is nice.

 

I hear you. Just being tech support for my wife can be a challenge. She has the gift of being able to do impossible things and expect that since I know technology I can undo it. She once deleted the speaker icon in the tray. No way to change volume. Yea, that kind of thing. With Linux, the the add'l power to customize, she'd wind up customizing the UI and suddenly the UI would disappear. (Someone should hire her as a tester. If she put her seal of approval on a software, I'd trust it with my life! ),

 

22 hours ago, jonathanm said:

 

As far as the MS Office thing goes, for the average user transitioning from Word to LibreOffice Writer is no more painful than the transition from Word 2003 to 2007 was. It's pretty much just about finding the menu locations for the function you want. Document compatibility is pretty darn good, you can trade documents back and forth with MS Office users without issue. Granted, power users with macros and vbscript are not going to transition well, but for the average user, it's fine.

 

"Fine" is not a exactly a rousing endorsement. Word has lots of peculiarities - bugs that have existed so long that you now have to call them features. And it can take some arm twisting to get just what you want. But I know all (or many) of the "wrinkles" - even how to occasionally use them to my advantage. Unless Libreoffice can make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (has some amazing features lacking in MS Word), I can't see myself making a change.

 

I'm even more tied to Excel. I do alot of analytics requiring some formulas and macro writing / custom functions. I just can't see switching. And my employer has Windows as a standard, and no way to get out of that - so then I'd be constantly switching between the Windows tools and Linux tools.

 

I just see little upside for me right now, but not ruling it out. I can see the demise of Windows once a tipping point with Apple/Linux usage makes it non-profitable for MS. Or even potentially the end of MS. Remotely possible in the next 10 years I suppose. So i'll dip my toes in the water from time to time to see how it is progressing. Maybe one day I'll jump in.

 

Cheers!

[CHBMB]

 
"Fine" is not a exactly a rousing endorsement. Word has lots of peculiarities - bugs that have existed so long that you now have to call them features. And it can take some arm twisting to get just what you want. But I know all (or many) of the "wrinkles" - even how to occasionally use them to my advantage. Unless Libreoffice can make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (has some amazing features lacking in MS Word), I can't see myself making a change.
 
I'm even more tied to Excel. I do alot of analytics requiring some formulas and macro writing / custom functions. I just can't see switching. And my employer has Windows as a standard, and no way to get out of that - so then I'd be constantly switching between the Windows tools and Linux tools.
 
I just see little upside for me right now, but not ruling it out. I can see the demise of Windows once a tipping point with Apple/Linux usage makes it non-profitable for MS. Or even potentially the end of MS. Remotely possible in the next 10 years I suppose. So i'll dip my toes in the water from time to time to see how it is progressing. Maybe one day I'll jump in.
 
Cheers!

It's just a case of whatever tool is best for the job I think, for me, at the moment, that's Linux, for you, at the moment, it's Windows.

You have very valid reasons for your decision and I have very valid reasons for mine, I don't think it makes either of us right or wrong to be honest.

[SSD]

2 minutes ago, CHBMB said:

It's just a case of whatever tool is best for the job I think, for me, at the moment, that's Linux, for you, at the moment, it's Windows.

You have very valid reasons for your decision and I have very valid reasons for mine, I don't think it makes either of us right or wrong to be honest.

 

Absolutely agree.

 

I was just trying to poke the gun wielding minions to elucidate their innermost thoughts on the subject.

[SSD]

Saw article in Forbes today, with is a person advocating switching to Linux.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/07/19/ditching-windows-2-weeks-with-ubuntu-linux-on-the-dell-xps-13/#429e311b1836

 

Entertaining read for anyone interested in taking the plunge. Lots of good reasons.

 

Only negative of note (for an Office expert) ...

 

Quote

LibreOffice is there too, and while not quite as slick as Microsoft Office it has the benefit of being quite functional and best of all free.

 

[CHBMB]

Saw article in Forbes today, with is a person advocating switching to Linux.
 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/07/19/ditching-windows-2-weeks-with-ubuntu-linux-on-the-dell-xps-13/#429e311b1836
 
Entertaining read for anyone interested in taking the plunge. Lots of good reasons.
 
Only negative of note (for an Office expert) ...
 

LibreOffice is there too, and while not quite as slick as Microsoft Office it has the benefit of being quite functional and best of all free.

 
That pretty much sums up how I ended up on Linux.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Guest]

Good article @SSD