Rajahal

Hey Raj, how many cycles for the times above? 1 cycle each. Running multiple cycles by using the -c flag would skew the data quite a bit, since on the 2nd, 3rd, etc. pass the previous cycle's post-read doubles as the current cycle's pre-read. I will be running a second cycle on each drive (not using the -c flag) at a later date, so I'll report those numbers once I have them. I'm currently setting up three of my test servers with 2-3 drives each to test out the SIL3132 controller as well as the Biostar A880G+ motherboard for 3TB drive compatibility.

Hi Joe, I have a total of 15 3TB Hitachi CoolSpin drives that I'm burning in for a client. I figured I would take the opportunity to help test out preclear1.12beta. I believe this post contains all the info you asked of other uses, but let me know if there's anything else you need. Below are the results for 8 of the 15 drives. These drives were divided into groups of four and precleared simultaneously using two different test servers. The hardware of each server is described below. Both servers were running unRAID 5.0-beta10. Here's the time to completion for each drive: Drive Duration Server Name 6H9A 48:49:35 Thailand 7MGA 47:41:13 Thailand GY8A 48:28:24 Thailand 6AKA 48:55:51 Thailand DYPA 41:29:50 Prototype GE4A 42:06:13 Prototype HSAA 40:28:49 Prototype HXBA 43:02:11 Prototype AVG: 44.6 hours 'Thailand' is a Supermicro X7SLA-H with a built-in Atom CPU and 2 GB of DDR2 533 RAM (2 x 1GB). 'Prototype' is a ZOTAC GF6100-E-E with a Sempron 140 CPU and 2 GB of DDR2 800 RAM (1 x 2GB). Here's the averages across each set of hardware: Thailand: 47.75 hours Prototype: 41.5 hours Interesting! It seems that the slower CPU and RAM in 'Thailand' are enough of a difference to account for an extra 6.25 hours of preclear time! I was wondering if 2 GB of RAM would be enough to simultaneously preclear four 3TB drives. It appears it is enough, but slower RAM may contribute to longer preclear times. I'll preclear some of the remaining drives on 'Prototype' with 4 GBs of DDR2 800 RAM (2 x 2GB) installed to see if there's any difference. Unfortunately 'Thailand' is already at its maximum RAM capacity. Edit: Oops, forgot to included the preclear reports. They are now attached to this post. I had to manually enter the .txt file extension for each one...didn't preclear used to take care of that by itself? Also, the text files don't seem to align themselves nicely like they used to. They now look like this: Is that the fault of the preclear script, or my Win7 computer? preclear_reports.zip

I would suggest the Corsair 650W as being better matched for your server. It has 8 molex connections as opposed to 3 on the CoolerMaster, so you shouldn't have to use any power splitters when providing power to your 4224's backplanes. Low quality power splitters are abundant, and a common cause of intermittent problems and troubleshooting woes. In my mind, avoiding them when possible is always worthwhile. In this case, you'll even save money by doing so. Ultimately you are faced with an easy decision when viewed in this context. And yes, the 650W will provide ample power for your 24 green drives (plus your single 7200 rpm drive if you keep it in the array).

Definitely looks like a bad drive. I suggest attempting preclear 2 or 3 more times. If it still fails every time (especially if those reallocated sector counts keep increasing), then RMA it.

The Corsair also has a variable fan speed based on internal temperature. In my opinion, that is worth the $10 difference versus the Rosewill.

Those temps look good, I hope they stay that way.

ProfQ: I'm glad you found fans that are quiet enough, but I'm worried that the lower CFM rating will mean inadequate airflow when you fill the cage with 5 drives. Do you have 5 drives you could test in there?

Very interesting! I assume the fans are blowing upwards? Is the motherboard on some sort of mounting bracket, or is it just sitting on the wood?

I see, thanks for the clarification. I really like your build. Could you add the total price of your server (without drives) to your UCD post? I think your build is probably a bit more expensive than my 9 drive prototype, but I still like it.

Of course I recommend my prototype builds, my personal server is actually very similar to the 9 drive budget box. Also take a look at ilovegoodnugz's build as well. The case he chose comes with 9 built-in hot swap drive bays (they use trays, not trayless), and he added a 10th drive bay to the top. I think the outcome is pretty nice.

Correct. We aim to charge about $10 above Newegg's retail price. Of course we may not match every sale, rebate, etc., but we will at least match their retail price in the sense that you intended.

Our intention in offering hard drives through our website is to offer the option of purchasing a server with drives that are already precleared, preinstalled, and preconfigured to be used in shares and add-ons. We charge (on average) $10 above the Newegg price for a hard drive to account for the extra time and testing we put into them. We aren't against the idea of selling precleared drives by themselves, but that is not our primary goal. The 2 TB Hitachi 7200 rpm drives we offer are the 7K2000 model, the same one you linked at Newegg. The 2 TB Hitachi CoolSpin drives are the 5K3000 model. Simply put, we will not match Newegg's price but always charge $10 on top of it. At this time we also charge for shipping for all of our products, so purchasing hard drives through us will not save you money, but they will save you time and potential hassle. As Johnm said, you are paying for GreenLeaf service and for our guarantee that the drives will be trustworthy. Also, Greenleaf Technology's headquarters is located in Reno, NV. We have no branch in Las Vegas. Johnm: Thank you for the kind words.

Any hard drive ordered through us will have passed at least 2 preclear cycles. What other websites did you have in mind?

Well, the variable fan is definitely new. You might be right about the efficiency rating.

I've started using the TX650 V2 in my 20+ drive builds. I like it. In addition to being more efficient (Bronze rated instead of Plus rated), it has a variable speed fan that spins down under low load, much like the more expensive Seasonic PSUs. Plus it is the same price or sometimes cheaper than the older TX650. I don't see any other differences between the two PSUs.

I think you mean high CFM vs. low dB or sone....RPM makes no difference at all.

Shawn, you're right, I think. The top 3 5.25" are hard to fill, it seems, so the most I could put in there would be a 3-in-2, as far as I can see. That would make it 9 internal + 3 in that 5.25 space, which means 12 total, which isn't that much considering the size of the thing. No matter, I kinda like the brash looks, and I moved my build into it. It's a high-airflow case, and even during a parity check, it almost runs too cool (low 30's). It sure looks the business, what with the red fans and all. I'll post photos in the coming days. FWIW, I also just built a Hackintosh in a Corsair Obsidian 650D case - now that's a great case, in my book. Not sure how good it would be as an unRaid server, but for a "normal" PC, it's pretty awesome. I've made a little clip, which is more about the innards and all, but still, maybe it'll give you an impression (youtube link) Sorry I'm a bit late to respond to this, I've been under the weather the past week, but I'm on the mend now. So it sounds like you went ahead and moved your server into the Antec case. How do you like it?

I believe that the Supermicro unit's lights only work when the unit is connected to a Supermicro controller card or motherboard using the included cable. So not a bug per se, but a limitation to be sure. I would just start with standard preclears. You can use the -n option to skip the initial preread and make the process go much faster. A 2 TB green drive takes 6 - 8 hours with the -n option, so a 7200 rpm drive should be even faster. The writing phase is what will produce the most heat anyway, so there's little point in running the preread.

Here's the screw spacing: top fan - 125 mm rear fan - 105 mm

I don't claim to really know anything about running unRAID through a VM, but I do know that unRAID doesn't actually have to boot off a USB flash drive. The only thing that needs to be on a flash drive is the unRAID license key (Plus.key or Pro.key) as it is tied to the flash drive's GUID (serial number). The actual unRAID system files (bzimage, bzroot, etc.) can be located and loaded from another drive, be it a hard drive, an SD card, a CF card, a floppy disk, etc. You might look into some of the old threads and wiki information about getting unRAID to run on old motherboards that don't support booting from USB. Specifically search 'kicker disk'.

I'll try to remember to measure the fan screw hole spacing when I get home tonight. If I forget, shoot me a PM.

Thermaltake V6 I haven't used the V5, so I would trust PeterB's comparison of the two. My take on the V6 is that it is good, but not great. The biggest disappointment is that the top docking bay's cables block the upper-most 5.25" bay, as I documented earlier in this thread. As others have noted, the PCI bay locks are a bit flimsy and not as secure as tradition screw in ones, but they do work. I'm still using the case for various prototype builds (trying out different motherboards, drive cages, etc.). It is lightweight and easy to work with. The front bezel pops off very easily, which makes it easy to flatten the tabs between the 5.25" bays. If you see value in the top dock and don't mind giving up the upper-most 5.25" bay, then I would recommend the V6. It would be a great case for a smaller server, such as one that supports 10 drives or less. If you want a full 15 bay server, then go with the V5 as PeterB said (or the Azza Helios 910, the Antec 902, or the myriad of other options). Corsair Obsidian 650 The Corsair Obsidian 650 looks like a great case, I've always wanted to use one. However, I'm so influenced by unRAID at this point that I can't bring myself to buy any case that doesn't have at least nine 5.25" bays, even if I'm using it for a non-unRAID purpose! Azza Helios 910 I've now used a few of the Azza Helios 910 cases in client builds. Here's my thoughts on the case: 1) Flattening the 5.25" bay tabs takes a bit longer than some cases since they extend across nearly the entire length of the bay. 2) Removing the plastic cross bars from the front is easily accomplished with a pair of wire clippers. 3) The case plastic is very black, so it is generally a bit darker than the black plastic used in most drive cages. Might aggravate certain OCD individuals... 4) The side fan/vent is really pretty pointless for an unRAID build, but it does look nice if you are into that kind of thing. I personally would rather not have it as it allows sound to escape the case much more easily. A solid case wall will do a better job at sound dampening. 5) The top fan sometimes emits a very slight rattle, I wonder if it doesn't mount against the case quite right. I've tried tightening the screws but couldn't get the rattle to stop (short of just disabling the fan altogether). I might experiment with putting a bit of foam between the fan's casing and the case. This rattle is very quiet, so it isn't a huge concern. If you are using any fans that are even a bit loud, then chances are you won't even hear it. 6) I really like how tall the case's feet are. It keeps the case higher up off the surface it sits on, allowing for good airflow underneath the case (important if you use the lower vents, which I generally don't) and makes it very easy to pick the case up and move it around. 7) The interior surface of the 5.25" bays will color your hands with black residue. At first I thought that was just a result of flattening the 5.25" tabs and scraping off some of the paint, but later I realized that my hands would pick up the black color even from the case brand new out of the box! Sometimes metal parts are coated with an anti-rust chemical to protect them as they are shipped across the ocean, so maybe that's what I'm seeing. Anyway, don't wear your white lace gloves while working on the case I give the case's cable management 9 out of 10 stars. My only real gripe is that there's no space above the motherboard's 4 pin power cable to route that cable behind the motherboard. However, since I always mount the PSU with the fan facing up, generally this cable won't reach behind the motherboard tray anyway. The case has plenty of other cable management holes, and lots of space both behind and beneath the 5.25" section to stow extra cabling. Even when using the long Norco drive cages I'm able to route cables around easily. 9) The power and reset buttons look and feel a bit cheap, but they work fine. Overall my impression with the Azza Helios 910 is still positive, and I will continue to use these cases in my builds. I do wish they were available without the large side fan, and I may be contacting Azza about creating a customized version of the case that will work a bit better for unRAID servers right out of the box (i.e. no side fan, no 5.25" bay tabs, etc.). If I'm able to pull that off, then I'll see what I can do about making the case available to the community at large. For the time being, I recommend purchasing the case from Amazon as it is available with free shipping (unlike Newegg). However, Amazon's free shipping does take aeons (probably 2 weeks or so...Newegg always gets parts to me in 3 days or less). I recently completed a 15 Drive Eco using this case, and I'm currently working on a 12 Drive Eco. I'll post pictures of both on the GreenLeaf site soon.

Makes sense that the SM drive cage LEDs would work well with the SM cards/mobos. I just wonder if they will work as well with other cards/mobos.

I don't believe that any of us are using unRAID in an enterprise environment. I do believe that the Supermicros are the best choice in that environment. However, I don't see the advantage of uninterrupted uptime with unRAID since the software itself is not hot-swap compatible. It wouldn't bother me to power down to swap a fan any more than it would bother me to power down to swap a drive (granted, swapping a fan on the Supermicro is still MUCH easier than swapping a fan on the Norco....maybe I'm biased about the importance of that factor since I've never had a fan die on me). If one wants to use all 7200 rpm drives in a single 5-in-3 cage, then the 92 mm fan on the Supermicro is definitely a plus. However, if one wants to use all green drives or a mixture of green and 7200 rpm, then the Norco's 80 mm stock fan is more than adequate. I'll also point out that the Norco's stock fan is much quieter than the Supermicro's stock fan (which adds to the Norco's value). This is a valid point. However, do the Supermicro's drive status and fan status LEDs function if your motherboard doesn't have the appropriate drive/fan failure headers? I'm not sure if they do. I know that when I built a client server using the Supermicros and a consumer-grade board (the Biostar A760G M2+), the board had no headers for the cage's LEDs, so the included LED cable was useless. If you are building a server using a server-grade board then the LEDs would be useful. Also, as I'm sure you know, unRAID can be configured to alert you (email, beeping, etc) of a drive failure or other important event. It just isn't part of stock unRAID. Another valid point. I always configure servers so that the drive's assignment on the devices page (parity, disk1, disk2, etc.) corresponds to its physical location in the server (slot 1, slot 2, etc.). So a quick look at the devices page will make a failed drive easy to identify. However, some people may prefer to rely on LEDs to tell them what to do. I'll mention that the current unRAID 5.0 beta (6a) includes an 'identify drive' button. This function will briefly reads from a drive to make that drive's activity light blinks. Should work with any drive bay that features a HDD activity light, and with every motherboard (not just the server-grade ones). Something to look forward to. Depends on your usage, of course. Many users will probably only do this once or twice a year, but it certainly is one of the few server maintenance operations needed on a normal server that is working properly. Besides, that was just an example. I don't think anyone can complain about better protection for a drive offered by a cheaper unit... A matter of preference perhaps. I've never seen a drive's circuit board overheat, only the drive's platter compartment. I imagine that the solid bottom on the Norco drive trays would act like a bit of a heatsink, but I've never had a reason to test it.

Indeed, thick steel, and they are the only drive trays that protect the drive's circuitry. The handles are plastic, but thick plastic (much thicker and sturdier than the handles on Supermicro trays). Each drive tray also has some vertical bits of plastic behind the handle that can be used to pull out a drive tray that is stiff or sticking a bit. I'm still a bit confused as to why so many people consider the Supermicro cages to be 'tank-like' and 'server grade'. It seems to me that they have some of the worst drive trays (since the flimsy plastic handles feel like they will break with too much use). Sure the drive cage is sturdy, but how often do the cages undergo crushing force? I would be more concerned with how well the drives are protected during common operations such as upgrading a parity drive. I believe that the Norco drive trays are the best design of all the 5-in-3s I've used. Even though some of the other drive trays use metal handles (such as the IcyDocks), they all have other cons that (in my opinion) outweigh the sturdier drive handles. I can pretty much guarantee that the Norco drive trays will do the best job of protecting the drive while it is outside of the drive cage. The cage itself is longer than the others, which is a downside, and the fan is not easy to replace. If the Norco cages had external fans like the Supermicro ones (and were shorter because of it), then I think they would be hands down the best design overall.