Help me design an SSD server!

[Rajahal]

Here's the basic idea:

 

+ 4 () = AWESOME

 

Components:

Case:QBox 4 - $158

 

Hot Swap Bays (6-in-1): iStarUSA BPU-126-SA 1 x 5.25" to 6 x 2.5" SATA Hot-Swap Backplane RAID Cage x 4, $75 each

 

Where I'm stuck is actually getting this many SATA connections on a miniITX board.  I'm not sure it can be done with the consumer parts available to me.  The best I can get is 14 ports with something like a Supermicro miniITX board and a SASLP card.  Anyone know of any other options to gain more ports?  Port multipliers maybe?  I'm also looking into the new AMD Zacate boards, but I'm not seeing anything with more ports than the Supermicros offer.

 

If I can't pack enough SATA ports into a miniITX mobo, then I could either downgrade to these 4 x 2.5" bays drive cages or upgrade the case to a larger model.

 

I'm also not sure that four of those hot swap bays will even fit in the case, since the bottom-most slot is partially occupied by the motherboard.  Even fitting just three of those hot swap units in this case would yield 18 2.5" bays.

 

I of course realize that most people aren't willing to pay the premium for 2.5" drives right now.  This is a forward thinking build - I believe that 3.5" drives will have ever-decreasing demand as the smaller, lighter, cooler 2.5" drives become the new standard.

 

With a server like this, you could have some SSD drives for fast access, and then some slower HDDs for data storage.

[grandprix]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816151042

 

Or something with many external connectors that unRaid will be compatible with (naturally).. question is, which one of the brand/model cards like this one is compatible with unRaid...

 

[Whaler_99]

Another thing to keep in mind for the 2.5" - laptop drives, you could cram a bunch of those in there as well. The prices are coming down and capacity going up on these. Even being able to run 14 x 2.5" laptop drives in that small of case would be great for someone with little room. Or for selling a unit that would have a much smaller footprint, hence less shipping charges. I would think the 2.5" laptop drives would run a bit quieter/cooler maybe than their 3.5" counterparts?

 

@grandpix - While nice, a $1000 bucks. Kinda makes the build a moot point I think... but, there is the option if someone wanted to pay for it...

 

Shawn

 

[Rajahal]

That card is ridiculous!  But that is an option.  I wonder if there's some sort of JBOD version that's cheaper, that would be ideal.

[SeeDrs]

how about a internal sata port multiplier

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm.asp

 

[kizer]

how about a internal sata port multiplier

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm.asp

 

 

Doesn't appear to be SlackWare Support. Of course who knows what can be done about that.

http://www.addonics.com/support/faqs/faq-pmsupport.asp

[grandprix]

@Shawn, why moot?  He didn't mention anything about price being a factor.   I got the impression he wanting as small in size and as big in capacity as possible.  Going with a miniITX, while I haven't looked specifically for one, I haven't seen one in my browsing that has more than one PCIe x8 slot.  40 drives on one card and it has 512MB of DDR2-533 on it.. shoot.  Would be small in size, high in capacity, quick and could probably stream to your entire neighborhood via Gigabit and still have enough left to laugh at what most of us are running. ;p

 

Besides, we're talking an unRaid with SSD's, to get any kind of real useful capacity, it's not gonna be chump change.

 

[grandprix]

$23k for 9.18 GB so far.. lol.. yeah sure, I'll order two of them.. I cant finish a build, there aren't enough 512 GB SSD's on hand at Newegg.  Must really suck for the person who can afford such a beast with no repercussions from a loved one.

[Whaler_99]

@Shawn, why moot?  He didn't mention anything about price being a factor.   I got the impression he wanting as small in size and as big in capacity as possible.  Going with a miniITX, while I haven't looked specifically for one, I haven't seen one in my browsing that has more than one PCIe x8 slot.  40 drives on one card and it has 512MB of DDR2-533 on it.. shoot.  Would be small in size, high in capacity, quick and could probably stream to your entire neighborhood via Gigabit and still have enough left to laugh at what most of us are running. ;p

 

Besides, we're talking an unRaid with SSD's, to get any kind of real useful capacity, it's not gonna be chump change.

 

 

Sitting here chuckling, all to true grandprix, as I look over at my game system with a Raid0 SSD array!

 

Shawn

 

[Whaler_99]

how about a internal sata port multiplier

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/ad5sapm.asp

 

 

Wonder how fast a parity check would run on that. Still, another option...

 

Shawn

[Superorb]

I think running several 2.5" drives would be a great option for a SFF build. They would run cooler and consume less power, so the PS

U doesn't need to be a giant powerhouse, just something efficient. Drives would be pretty pricey though, and much more so with SSD's.

[MrD1234]

That card is ridiculous!  But that is an option.  I wonder if there's some sort of JBOD version that's cheaper, that would be ideal.

 

Yes.  Try this instead

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118114&cm_re=lsi_9211-_-16-118-114-_-Product

 

and

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816401184&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Hard+Drive+Controllers+/+RAID+Cards-_-Hewlett-Packard-_-16401184

 

That case is only going to accommodate 3 of those bays as stated on the website.  I would seriously not constrain the design with that case.

[WeeboTech]

I might consider these .

 

http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/mobilerack/CSE-M28E2.cfm

 

As far as addonics port multiplier support. It's based more on the chipset

If you are using a silicon image SATA card or a JMB363 card port multiplier support is highly likely.

Also the PCI-X supermicro SATA card supports port multipliers too.

[Rajahal]

Yes.  Try this instead

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118114&cm_re=lsi_9211-_-16-118-114-_-Product

 

Unless I'm missing something, this card supports only 4 drives....the SASLP card would be cheaper and supports double that many drives.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816401184&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Hard+Drive+Controllers+/+RAID+Cards-_-Hewlett-Packard-_-16401184

 

Now that's what I'm talking about!  No RAID functions, so it keeps the cost down...perfect.  24 drive support (negating any motherboard ports) would require this card for $380 plus six forward breakout cables at ~$20 each...call it $500 total.  That's roughly $21 per drive.  By comparison, a single SASLP card supports 8 drives for ~$140 total ($100 for the card plus two breakout cables) - $17.5 per drive.  Given this, the HP card is pretty darn reasonable if one is limited to a single PCIe slot...

 

Cabling in a tiny case might be a challenge...but I'll likely run into that issue with any design that packs this many drives into such a small space.

 

This card is very helpful, thank you for the recommendation.

 

That case is only going to accommodate 3 of those bays as stated on the website.  I would seriously not constrain the design with that case.

 

I think you are right.  I don't particularly like the look of the shuttle case either, it is just the smallest case with the highest number of 5.25" bays that I could find.

 

I might consider these .

http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/mobilerack/CSE-M28E2.cfm

 

As far as addonics port multiplier support. It's based more on the chipset

If you are using a silicon image SATA card or a JMB363 card port multiplier support is highly likely.

Also the PCI-X supermicro SATA card supports port multipliers too.

 

Thanks!  Also a very helpful contribution.  The Supermicro cage's single 80mm fan is definitely preferable to the iStarUSA's dual 40mm fans.  Drive density isn't quite as high (8 drives in the space of two 5.25" bays instead of 12), but cooling is much better.  I think these Supermicro units are more appropriate for a 2.5" HDD server, and I conjecture that the iStarUSA bays with the two small fans removed or disabled would work well for an SSD server (since SSDs produce so much less heat).  I would need to test that theory, of course...

[WeeboTech]

Thanks!  Also a very helpful contribution.  The Supermicro cage's single 80mm fan is definitely preferable to the iStarUSA's dual 40mm fans.  Drive density isn't quite as high (8 drives in the space of two 5.25" bays instead of 12), but cooling is much better.  I think these Supermicro units are more appropriate for a 2.5" HDD server, and I conjecture that the iStarUSA bays with the two small fans removed or disabled would work well for an SSD server (since SSDs produce so much less heat).  I would need to test that theory, of course...

 

I like the iStar units. I would probably open then up and rip out the fan, then use case fans to pull the air through.

However one of my concerns with some of these brands is longevity of production.

 

I remember buying the trayless units wanting three finding two, but unable to find the third for months.

The supermicros have been in production a long time.

 

If had the money to build an SSD array, I would be using a larger case capable of very high density.

I don't see the need to cram it into a tiny case when you need massive amounts of drives to make up for the density.

 

 

 

[MrD1234]

 

 

Unless I'm missing something, this card supports only 4 drives....the SASLP card would be cheaper and supports double that many drives.

 

 

Now that's what I'm talking about! 

 

You actually need both.  The 4 port is an SAS HBA the second card is an SAS expander.  The HBA card is what the OS talks to.  The SAS expander is like a network switch for SAS / SATA drives.

 

Actually the HP card is 36 ports, but in practice you can not use the external port and you have to sacrifice one or two ports to link to the HBA card.  The LSI HBA is nice if you get the 8i (2 sas port) model you can dual link to the expander for double the bandwidth.

 

There are also Intel and Chenbro models for the SAS expander but the Intel model only supports 20 drivers after linking and the Chenbro is mucho expensivo.

 

 

 

 

[Rajahal]

Ah, I see.  Thank you very much for the explanation.  A bit of a disappointment since it means that two PCIe slots are needed (which excludes many miniITX boards from consideration), but still a viable option...and much cheaper than the $1000 card.

[MrD1234]

Ah, I see.  Thank you very much for the explanation.  A bit of a disappointment since it means that two PCIe slots are needed (which excludes many miniITX boards from consideration), but still a viable option...and much cheaper than the $1000 card.

 

Thanks!  Yes one definitely does not spend $1k on a full feature RAID card for UnRAID

 

BTW, I believe both the chenbro and Intel cards use a molex connector to power the board and can use any slot.  Additionally there are "mezzanine" form factors of those cards too and you may be able to custom mount them.

 

[Superorb]

 

I like the iStar units. I would probably open then up and rip out the fan, then use case fans to pull the air through.

 

This is exactly what I did with my iStar cages.

[technojunkie]

Ah, I see.  Thank you very much for the explanation.  A bit of a disappointment since it means that two PCIe slots are needed ...

 

The expander only uses the pcie slot for power. If you're reasonably competent with a soldering iron, you could probably order a pcie connector like this one and solder a molex pigtail to the proper pins.

[Rajahal]

Interesting, thanks.  If I did power it from a traditional PCIe port, it shouldn't matter what speed that port is rated for, correct?

[MrD1234]

Interesting, thanks.  If I did power it from a traditional PCIe port, it shouldn't matter what speed that port is rated for, correct?

 

Correct.  However, the board does need a "power good" signal.  Some boards have a tendency to not assert that signal if the bios scan does not detect a card.

 

The newer Chenbro card based on the LSI chipset might be a better alternative since it gets power from the molex connecter and only uses any slot for structural support

 

http://www.chenbro.com/corporatesite/products_detail.php?sku=187

[MrD1234]

Ah, I see.  Thank you very much for the explanation.  A bit of a disappointment since it means that two PCIe slots are needed ...

 

The expander only uses the pcie slot for power. If you're reasonably competent with a soldering iron, you could probably order a pcie connector like this one and solder a molex pigtail to the proper pins.

 

You also need to assert the power good signal for the card to run.

[joshpond]

Does unRaid's kernel support trim. I thought a newer kernel version than what I've got (.32.9)

 

Apparently the intel drives do better without trim support but you will see a degradation in performance over time.

 

Josh