Do VM's actually even work?

[beetlebug515]

First forum post. I have a system running a 5700G and a quadro p400 for Plex transcode. I've been running UnRaid for a good while now, and thought I knew how to get a GPU passed through. Apparently passing through a 5700G isn't actually possible? I've been trying everything for days and all I get are constant server lockups. I've even rolled back a few versions of unraid as I've read that 6.10.3 caused some issues for people. I'm at a point now where I'm just contemplating how to migrate to Truenas Scale as the VM implementation there has at least been looked at recently by the dev's. Pretty disappointed that an advertised feature of UnRaid simply doesn't work. 

 

To be clear, I can't pass through ANY gpu. Even the Quadro causes server lockups with Nvidia driver uninstalled and the card and sound component bound to VFIO. Sad that I paid money for this. Can anyone there take some of my dollars and use them to fix this? Tons of people want this feature, based on all of the reading I've done. 

 

TL;DR If I don't pass through the 5700G audio component, I get error 43. If I DO pass it through, the server locks up. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by beetlebug515
Additions

[Evedoescomputerstuff]

I have a p400 in one of my unraid builds passed through to a VM for basic desktop accel (it used to be for transcoding). Works great.

The vBios is probably what you're missing since you didn't mention it and it's easy to overlook.  I just grabbed a vbios from TechPowerUp. The Quadro cards aren't as 'AIB'd' to death like consumer cards so finding a compatible vbios is easy.

If you for some reason can't find your card on TechPowerUp, you might have to dump the vBios yourself. There's a script that allegedly works but hasn't for me in the past. The *easiest* way to reliably extract it is to toss it in a computer, boot up windows and use GPU-Z to save it to a file. Place the resulting file on your server in one of your shares (like isos alongside your OS install images), then on the VM config GUI in the GPU section, locate your bios file. 

If you're using it for transcode that means the GPU works (in theory) and that you probably have the same nvidia drivers for Unraid as I do. I don't *think* you need the Unraid nvidia plugin just to pass the GPU through but I figured I'd mention it since it is running in my setup. 

 

The p400 I have is most likely the same as yours and I was actually blown away at how easy it was to get working with a tiny bit of tinkering. 

 

As for passing iGPUs? I haven't played with it but that sounds like way too much of a headache. GPU prices are crashing so depending on what your goal is for pass through, something cheap might work wonders and be significantly easier to get working. 

 

I tried TrueNAS Scale on the first RC (so please take this with a grain of salt) and didn't like it. Docker configuration sucked, charts were meh, portainer helped a bit. I was getting really bizarre slow downs and lockups without much logic behind them and felt as though with my more 'JBOD' storage arrangement that it wasn't right for me. If you don't need ZFS and you already use unRAID, I can't think of a major reason to switch over IMO. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Evedoescomputerstuff

[beetlebug515]

I was finally able to get p400 passed through after going back and forth between UnRaid versions, but igpu should really work. There really should be no reason for it to be this difficult. Looking at all the other threads with tens of thousands of views shows that this is something people actually want. The more I look in to the history of UnRaid, the more I start to despair. People have been asking to be able to install to a disk since 2014. Still no sign that it will ever happen. Thousands of people want to use igpu, but looks like the devs would rather just let the community do their work for them while they sit on their behinds and roll around in cash.

Edited September 17, 2022 by beetlebug515

[dlandon]

1 hour ago, beetlebug515 said:

I was finally able to get p400 passed through after going back and forth between UnRaid versions, but igpu should really work. There really should be no reason for it to be this difficult.

Unfortunately, iGPU pass through is not that straight forward.  The hardware, processor, and IOMMU groupings can all be a factor in getting iGPU pass through to work,  Can you post a link to where you have requested help on getting it to work?

 

Did you look at this Spaceinvader One video? 

 

 

1 hour ago, beetlebug515 said:

People have been asking to be able to install to a disk since 2014. Still no sign that it will ever happen.

This is not how Unraid works and is not likely to change any time soon.  Just because people ask, doesn't mean it's just automatically going to happen.

 

1 hour ago, beetlebug515 said:

Thousands of people want to use igpu, but looks like the devs would rather just let the community do their work for them while they sit on their behinds and roll around in cash.

This couldn't be farther from the truth and your comment is not very productive.  I can understand you are frustrated, but just post your concerns and give us a chance to help you work through it.  As I said earlier, iGPU is not just a straight forward thing that Unraid can just automatically make work.  A lot of time has been put into iGPU passthroough and LT will continue to improve this feature, but with all the various hardware and IOMMU groupings based on varying hardware, it is not as easy as you seem to think.

[beetlebug515]

Maybe it isn't very productive, but I just had a VM break that I spent hours on today simply because I plugged in a tablet to a passed through usb bus. This is insane, and I'm done.

[beetlebug515]

Look, I've spent two days on this and I just want it to work. It doesn't. I've gone through at least 20 VM's, power cycled 18 times, seen more non-sensical errors than I can count. This is a waste of time. 

[beetlebug515]

For instance, I just had one that refused to update because it said it couldn't find a USB device that was already there and passed through. Then refused to start because of pci mode errors. ALL I did was plug in a wacom tablet. That's it.

 

[beetlebug515]

If this were free software, I could forgive the fragility and borderline uselessness of the VM engine. It isn't free though. VM's are a big selling point and they simply don't work without hours and hours of pain. 

[dlandon]

8 minutes ago, beetlebug515 said:

If this were free software, I could forgive the fragility and borderline uselessness of the VM engine. It isn't free though. VM's are a big selling point and they simply don't work without hours and hours of pain. 

I've had two VMs working for years through all versions of Unraid since VMs were introduced without prob;ems.  One is using a passed through GPU that took maybe an hour to configure.  It does work and can be done.  Many Unraid users have working VMs with passed through GPUs.

 

If you want some help post your diagnostics file and explain what you are doing and we will give you some help.  If all you want to do is complain, then maybe Unraid isn't going to work for you.

[Evedoescomputerstuff]

2 hours ago, beetlebug515 said:

Maybe it isn't very productive, but I just had a VM break that I spent hours on today simply because I plugged in a tablet to a passed through usb bus. This is insane, and I'm done.

Did a reboot fix it and allow you to boot the VM again? With USB I agree things can be finnicky, a slightly more surefire system (and one that supports hotplug) is finding a 'group' of USB ports on your unRAID machine that can be passed through as a USB controller. Those ports will become unavailable to unRAID or other things on your server, but will in ideal circumstances, function as regular hotpluggable USB ports to the VM.

 

I highly recommend considering copying the 'xml' (you don't need to use XML for most VM config tasks) at each stage as you're working through making the VM. It makes it much easier to revert to something that did work. Furthermore, as you're figuring this out, copying the vdisk image file for your VM at various stages is useful as well. It's a snapshot of the computer essentially and makes trying something out hassle free as you can always restore the working image. This is actually one of the reasons I *really* like the VM system (once it works, passing stuff through is always going to be a bit of trial and error), snapshotting and quickly switching through images can be helpful if you're trying things liable to break an OS, or if you're developing something for a specific config.

 

As mentioned by others, passing through an iGPU isn't as trivial as it you'd think due to how IOMMU assignments get sliced up and parted out so to speak. That's why a supported dGPU is often easier to make work in a VM. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Evedoescomputerstuff

[ghost82]

23 hours ago, beetlebug515 said:

Can anyone there take some of my dollars and use them to fix this?

You did not understand what is unraid. For vms in general, unraid includes qemu and libvirt and adds a gui to manage vms, nothing more; qemu and libvirt are external projects.

Switching to something else will not solve your issues, unless the os is using something different than qemu/libvirt and/or other kernel versions.

 

Why not complaining with amd, or nvidia, or with your motherboard manufacturer?If you correctly configured your vm and it still doesn't work the issue may be in your mb bios, or in your gpu firmware. I'm running linux/windows/mac os vms all days from 4 years, everyday, never had an issue with nvidia or amd gpus.

[wacko37]

On 9/18/2022 at 6:42 AM, dlandon said:

This couldn't be farther from the truth and your comment is not very productive.  I can understand you are frustrated, but just post your concerns and give us a chance to help you work through it.  As I said earlier, iGPU is not just a straight forward thing that Unraid can just automatically make work.  A lot of time has been put into iGPU passthroough and LT will continue to improve this feature, but with all the various hardware and IOMMU groupings based on varying hardware, it is not as easy as you seem to think.

 

Sadly feel the exact same way as @beetlebug515 right now, I've literally wasted days on this with ZERO! replies to my posts on the UNRAID forums.

 

See here: 

 

And here:

 

I wish I had half the knowledge you devs had....I'd be bloody dangerous! The only responses I got where from the Libreelec forum, after troubleshooting its clear its an issue within unraid passthrough, that's after 2 days of searching and testing!

 

Then I decided to try a windows 11 VM to test if I could get HDMI audio or even a video from my iGPU......LOL I should have know better...... Microsoft! I could only get VNC graphics to work, then any time I updated a driver or windows update that required a reboot it corrupted windows and would no longer boot!

 

If passthrough of an iGPU is so difficult why is it only now in this forum that I am hearing about? It should be noted very clearly within the unraid VM gui itself. 

 

Like so many other things, modern iGPU cannot boot in legacy mode (their push for everything UEFI), i spent a day alone pulling my hair out on this! @SpaceInvaderOne so many times you mention to boot only in legacy mode but never once have you mentioned that its not possible without a dGPU. 

 

Now my finding could be so untrue / false, but after days of trial and error "LEARNING" this is what I have found to be true from my perspective

 

Now I cant believe I've just called out SpaceInvaderOne & All devs on this forum, I'm so bloody grateful for all the work that you do because none of this would be possible without your hard work. All i ask is if someone who has the knowledge / foresight can tell me if what I'm trying to achieve is even possible to save me from wasting anymore of my time on a feature that clearly is a beta at best!

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by wacko37

[SimonF]

25 minutes ago, wacko37 said:

 

Sadly feel the exact same way as @beetlebug515 right now, I've literally wasted days on this with ZERO! replies to my posts on the UNRAID forums.

 

See here: 

 

And here:

 

I wish I had half the knowledge you devs had....I'd be bloody dangerous! The only responses I got where from the Libreelec forum, after troubleshooting its clear its an issue within unraid passthrough, that's after 2 days of searching and testing!

 

Then I decided to try a windows 11 VM to test if I could get HDMI audio or even a video from my iGPU......LOL I should have know better...... Microsoft! I could only get VNC graphics to work, then any time I updated a driver or windows update that required a reboot it corrupted windows and would no longer boot!

 

If passthrough of an iGPU is so difficult why is it only now in this forum that I am hearing about? It should be noted very clearly within the unraid VM gui itself. 

 

Like so many other things, modern iGPU cannot boot in legacy mode (their push for everything UEFI), i spent a day alone pulling my hair out on this! @SpaceInvaderOne so many times you mention to boot only in legacy mode but never once have you mentioned that its not possible without a dGPU. 

 

Now my finding could be so untrue / false, but after days of trial and error "LEARNING" this is what I have found to be true from my perspective

 

Now I cant believe I've just called out SpaceInvaderOne & All devs on this forum, I'm so bloody grateful for all the work that you do because none of this would be possible without your hard work. All i ask is if someone who has the knowledge / foresight can tell me if what I'm trying to achieve is even possible to save me from wasting anymore of my time on a feature that clearly is a beta at best!

 

 

I havea z690 with12600k uhd770 and have not been able to passthru. code43 in windows. Hoping driver support will come 

[wacko37]

Thanks for the reply mate, just to confirm I can passthrough Video & onboard soundcard to the Libreelec VM fairly easily.... now that I know what to do.

 

In the pic below I only have sound output options for the rear i/o, what I'm missing is the HDMI options, which I know works when running the same Libreelec os natively outside of Unraid.

 

Is there something else I need to passthrough?

 

 

 

EDIT: Also is it worth continuing this discussion over on the original thread (if there is discussion to be had)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by wacko37