Hi!

 

I´m experiencing the following issue: The SMB Shares won´t show up in Windows Clients anymore after upgrade to UNRAID 7.0.0 but if I access them like \\serverIP\sharename I can access the files and so on, but not "like before" where the server was available in the file explorer - network places and I could brose the folders shared of the server.

 

Any help will be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Nothing changed in Unraid that would cause that, but check that WSD is enabled (Settings - SMB)

On the Windows client,      Settings    >>>   Network & Internet    then click on 'Properties'.  Make sure it is set for 'Private network'.  (Not sure if this is really required but other folks have found it is necessary.) 

 

Another thing you can do on the Windows Client.  Open Control Panel.  (Use Task Bar search window to find it.)  Now click on 'Network and Sharing Center', in left pane, click on 'Change advance sharing settings'.  In the 'Private Network' section, make sure that 'Network discovery' is turned on. 

5 hours ago, JorgeB said:

Nothing changed in Unraid that would cause that, but check that WSD is enabled (Settings - SMB)

Hi!

 

Thanks for the help. WDS is enabled. 

2 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

On the Windows client,      Settings    >>>   Network & Internet    then click on 'Properties'.  Make sure it is set for 'Private network'.  (Not sure if this is really required but other folks have found it is necessary.) 

 

Another thing you can do on the Windows Client.  Open Control Panel.  (Use Task Bar search window to find it.)  Now click on 'Network and Sharing Center', in left pane, click on 'Change advance sharing settings'.  In the 'Private Network' section, make sure that 'Network discovery' is turned on. 

Hi!

 

Thanks for the guide, but yes, all that is fine, I´m just experiencing this problem after upgrading to UNRAID 7.0.0, and all the Windows terminals are experiencing the same problem. Mixed Win10 and Win11.
The windows shares are listed, but no UNRAID shares are listed in windows terminals, only the UNRAID SMB shares can be accessed by \\ServerName\Share only...

 

Regards

13 hours ago, W_T_F_Rules said:

but not "like before" where the server was available in the file explorer - network places and I could brose the folders shared of the server.

This has been a problem in Windows since SMBv1 was blacklisted.  There are ways around it.  I would recommend using the workaround described in the March 15th (2024) edit of this post:

 

     https://forums.unraid.net/topic/110580-security-is-not-a-dirty-word-unraid-windows-1011-smb-setup/#findComment-1009109

 

1 minute ago, Frank1940 said:

This has been a problem in Windows since SMBv1 was blacklisted.  There are ways around it.  I would recommend using the workaround described in the March 15th (2024) edit of this post:

 

     https://forums.unraid.net/topic/110580-security-is-not-a-dirty-word-unraid-windows-1011-smb-setup/#findComment-1009109

 

Okay, I´ll read it and test the solutions provided, thanks again!

 

SMBv1 is not active in any windows clients on my side

I'm having the exact same issue.

 

I can manually browse to the server by name or IP address, but it's not showing up automatically in network discovery. I pinned it to Quick Access and I can access the structure fine, but it does not show up whatsoever under Network.

 

Hard to pin down when it started as this week I've done updates to both Unraid and Windows.

 

No issues with ACLs on the Unraid server's folders.

Edited January 17, 20251 yr by Xrathe

7 hours ago, Xrathe said:

can manually browse to the server by name or IP address, but it's not showing up automatically in network discovery. I

Basically, it is the Window's side that has bugs/problems in it.  It has not worked reliably since SMBv1 was blacklisted.  (SMBv1 has serious security issues especially for Home LAN users!!!)   I have major problems with 'Network' even finding Windows clients computers on my LAN that are connected using a SMB peer-to-peer network.  So it is not a just a problem of Unraid-Windows setups! 

 

Here is check list of things that I have found that enable it to work approximately 97% of the time.

 

• Make sure that your Windows clients are are setup to be using 'Private' network type for your LAN connection.   (For security, when you connect using a 'foreign' network, the connection type should be set to 'Public'.)
• Make sure that Network Discovery is turned on both the Windows computers (even it you are not sharing from that computer!) and your Unraid server*.  (That setting is a toggle under SMB Settings called 'Enable WSD'.)    Turning it on for Windows clients is described above in one of my posts above and you can find that post by using the link below.
  
          https://forums.unraid.net/topic/185023-smb-shares-won´t-show-up-in-windows-clients-anymore-after-upgrade-to-unraid-700/#findComment-1512087
• It has been found that leaving your servers on 24-7 does help.  Windows will scan your network for new server only every several minutes (> 5).  While new servers joining a network are suppose to broadcast that they have joined, I have long suspected that packet can easily be lost.  Since no one is really expecting it,  a rebroadcast will not be requested.

 

It also seems that clicking on the 'Network' icon in Windows File Manager will force it to scan the network (this can take a few seconds) and that sometimes works. 

 

These are all workarounds and they seem to help but to be brutally honest, setting up a 'Quick Access' Link is probably the best solution for most Unraid users.  It will always be there and it always works. On all of the computers where we access my two Unraid servers on a daily basis, I have set up the Quick Access entries for both of my Unraid servers in File Manager. At this point, I never even look what servers are listed under 'Network'.  I just automatically click on the server's Quick Access link just as I would for getting to the Documents folder.  I did use the 'Network Neighborhood' approach back in the Win 10 days but it has setup issues in Win 11**.  (That approach is a 'neater one' if you have many servers on your network.)  

 

*  Here is the text from that toggle:

I underlined how I think it should be read when that client is not sharing resources...

 

 

**  Point of information, if Network Neighborhood is setup under Win 10 and you upgrade to Win 11, it still works under Windows 11.  (This is it the reason I didn't discover that the setup procedure didn't work for Win 11 until someone pointed out they were having issues!) 

I think I can duplicate this issue sometimes with one of my servers, i.e., the server disappears from the network neighborhood after array start sometimes, it comes back when the array is stopped, looking into it.

 

 

4 hours ago, JorgeB said:

I think I can duplicate this issue sometimes with one of my servers, i.e., the server disappears from the network neighborhood after array start sometimes, it comes back when the array is stopped, looking into it.

 

 

 

If I restart the server remotely and keep an eye on one of the Windows machines, I can see the server pop up during the restart process, but it quickly vanishes.

Edited January 17, 20251 yr by Xrathe

11 hours ago, Xrathe said:

If I restart the server remotely and keep an eye on one of the Windows machines, I can see the server pop up during the restart process, but it quickly vanishes.

Yep, that's what I also see, it shows up after boot, then it goes out briefly during array start, and for me sometimes it comes back after it starts, others it doesn't, I've already brought this to LT's attention, but I can only make it happen with one server and not always, so it may take some time to figure out what the problem is.

Users having this issue, where the server disappears from the Windows network neighborhood after array start, but shows up with the array stopped, please try restarting Samba after array start to see if it helps:

 

/usr/local/etc/rc.d/rc.samba restart

 

On 1/17/2025 at 11:07 AM, Frank1940 said:

 

Well, I´ve tried everything listed in this thread (thanks!) but noithing worked... also smbd restart / samba restart wich didn´t helped either, but now I can read other users are experiencing the very same as I do. Also I installed a few Windows VMs and the same behaviour remains.

 

I´ll wait for DEVs to figure it out and hope they can find the issue soon.

 

Thanks y´all!

Edited January 18, 20251 yr by W_T_F_Rules
mispelling

I will add this to the mix.  This morning, I started up my main Windows (11PRO ver23H2 on most of my windows clients) client computer.  After about 20 minutes, I opened up Windows File Manager.  There was nothing under 'Network' in the left pane.  I click on the '>' before the word.  A Windows 'spinner' popped up and about 3-5 seconds later both of my Unraid servers will displayed under it.

 

I will now throw another some more observations:

• I turned on another Windows client computer.  (Many of my Windows computers are setup for peer-to-peer networking.  It beats sneaker net and allows for simple collaboration on editing and assembling projects!)  Again I have to click on 'Network' and after another short delay both Unraid servers show up.  But my main computer does not show up as a server.  I  waited about twenty-fives minutes.  Opened another destination in file manager.  Then my main client computer popped up on the list of servers under 'Network'!
• I go back to my main client computer.  I have now waited for more than twenty-five minutes.  I can not get that second Windows client to show up in file manager.  Finally, I open that client computer's shares by clicking on the shortcut.  File manager immediately opens it (showing me the shares)  and the computer instantly shows up under 'Network'.
• On my main client, I have a shortcut to that main computer.  If I click on that shortcut and open up the shares in file manager, it instantly pops up under Network.  (Remember that computer never shows up on the list of servers under Network.  I have never had a client-server show up under Network on it own.  I have to force it by clicking on a shortcut.  To be honest, I can't think of a possible use for this capability.  I can also see where you could do some really stupid stuff like trying to copy a file onto itself.*  But it does show that the client and server functions are separate processes under Windows and appear to be independent of each other.)

The point I am trying to make is that Windows File Manager can't handle peer-to-peer Windows client-servers cleanly either.  So trying to fix this problem from the Unraid side may prove impossible.  I also have the feeling that MS does not really care about the peer-to-peer side of SMB.  They are interested in selling Windows Server and Active Directory as the networking solution.  Plus, I would guess that far less than 2% of all Windows users use the peer-to-peer networking protocol. 

 

*I have not try this so I don't know what would happen.  If you want to try it, I would suggest a 'test-type' file be created because it would probably get thrashed if Windows permitted it to happen!)

1 minute ago, W_T_F_Rules said:

Well, I´ve tried everything listed in this thread (thanks!) but anything worked... also smbd restart / samba restart wich didn´t helped either,

Do you mean nothing worked?

 

Did creating a short cut to the server on the desktop not access the server?  (If you need help creating one, download the "An Alternative Method to Network Neighborhood" PDF in this link.) 

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/110580-security-is-not-a-dirty-word-unraid-windows-1011-smb-setup/#findComment-1009109

 

After you open the server using the shortcut, doe it not show up under 'Network'?  (If not be sure that you give details about your Windows-- Type and version.)

If you have "NetBIOS" enabled, disable it.  It is not necessary anymore for Windows clients and may be causing issues.

14 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

Do you mean nothing worked?

 

Did creating a short cut to the server on the desktop not access the server?  (If you need help creating one, download the "An Alternative Method to Network Neighborhood" PDF in this link.) 

 

       https://forums.unraid.net/topic/110580-security-is-not-a-dirty-word-unraid-windows-1011-smb-setup/#findComment-1009109

 

After you open the server using the shortcut, doe it not show up under 'Network'?  (If not be sure that you give details about your Windows-- Type and version.)

 

I´m running UNRAID in a SOHO with 15 Windows 10/11 mixed clients. 

Accessing the shares using the \\servername or serverIP\sharedresource works.

 

Simply can´t make understand my customer that before upgrading to 7.0.0 all of those windows settings wasn´t needed, and now is just a "let´s try all these and see what happens" is practically setting myself on fire when before the update everything was fine...

 

I got your point of view, but best scenario for me right now is to roll back to previous UNRAID version and hope everything get back as it was and wait for the next update and test it in a non productive environment to check if this SMB issue is solved (of course, reading the changelog first).

 

Regards

This is a bit off the wall, but when this happens, go to the UD Settings page and click on the "Remote Servers" tab and enter a Windows client name or IP address and click "Test".  UD does several tests that might show what the problem might be.  If the IP address works and not the name, there is a name lookup issue.

 

Also try the Unraid server you are on (yes, you are testing yourself) and see if anything shows out of that.

 

1 hour ago, W_T_F_Rules said:

Simply can´t make understand my customer that before upgrading to 7.0.0 all of those windows settings wasn´t needed, and now is just a "let´s try all these and see what happens" is practically setting myself on fire when before the update everything was fine...

I appreciate your frustration and the assumption it is Unraid because it happens on an Unraid update, but keep in mind we are subject to the following things that change that we have no control over:

• Linux Kernel changes.
• Samba changes and security updates.
• Windows security updates.

Nothing like this showed up in either internal, beta, or rc testing.  If we can reproduce the issue, we can work on a resolution.  If we cannot make it happen, it's pretty much a trial and error approach so we can find what affects it.  Do we like to do it this way?  No, but it's the best we can do until we can reproduce it or seek out a proper resolution.  If you don't have the patience for this approach, feel free to do what you have done - downgrade and wait it out.

36 minutes ago, W_T_F_Rules said:

I got your point of view, but best scenario for me right now is to roll back to previous UNRAID version and hope everything get back as it was and wait for the next update and test it in a non productive environment to check if this SMB issue is solved (of course, reading the changelog first).

 

 

This is all assuming that the change that 'broke' things on the Unraid side of the equation. I have heard that there are problems in the 24H2 version of Windows File Manager that are suppose to be address in the February updates. Not sure if these issues affected any other versions.  Samba was updated in this latest Unraid version.   Unfortunately, most most people simply allow Windows updates to just happen.  Unfortunately the release of Unraid 7.0 was January 9th and the January Windows update was January 14th...

 

Good luck on the rollback.  Let us know if it fixes things...

Now let me toss in another thing that just occurred. 

 

I opened up File Manager on my main Windows Client-server(i.e., my primary PC).  The other Windows client-server computer (I.e., my wife's priimary PC) was missing from under 'Network'.  Remember it was there just few hours ago. This computer has been on since about 7:00Am this morning.  It never sleeps.  My wife's computer has been on since about 7:20AM and it never sleeps.   Of course, clicking on a shortcut to that computer instantly restore it to its place under 'Network'.

 

I don't quite what to make of all this. But I do know that it is not just a Unraid-Windows SMB problem because a virtually identical problem also exists on the Windows-Windows SMB side of the equation.  (Let me the first to admit that we don't use the Windows-Windows SMB connections near as much as the Unraid-Windows SMB connections so that is a rather minor issue if I have to use an couple of next mouse clicks to get to those resources.)

 

This problem (or one of its cousins) has been around for me for a number of years (> three).  I first noticed it when I turned off SMBv1.  I did that after I 'retired' some old Linux set-top media players that used SMBv1 only.  (Their software had not been update since 2011!) 

 

But I also recall that this problem was around back before that.  The 'solution' at that time was to leave you Unraid server on 24-7 and see that it was always elected the Local Master.  Even then it could take up to 40 minutes for either a client or a server to be fully integrated into the network.  (SMBv1 pooling times only occur about every twenty minutes or so.  Remember this network scheme was designed and released as 'Workgroup for Windows' when the 80386 with 620KB of RAM was the king of the hill as far as CPU's and memory went!)

3 hours ago, dlandon said:

This is a bit off the wall, but when this happens, go to the UD Settings page and click on the "Remote Servers" tab and enter a Windows client name or IP address and click "Test".  UD does several tests that might show what the problem might be.  If the IP address works and not the name, there is a name lookup issue.

 

Also try the Unraid server you are on (yes, you are testing yourself) and see if anything shows out of that.

 

I appreciate your frustration and the assumption it is Unraid because it happens on an Unraid update, but keep in mind we are subject to the following things that change that we have no control over:

• Linux Kernel changes.
• Samba changes and security updates.
• Windows security updates.

Nothing like this showed up in either internal, beta, or rc testing.  If we can reproduce the issue, we can work on a resolution.  If we cannot make it happen, it's pretty much a trial and error approach so we can find what affects it.  Do we like to do it this way?  No, but it's the best we can do until we can reproduce it or seek out a proper resolution.  If you don't have the patience for this approach, feel free to do what you have done - downgrade and wait it out.

Hi and thanks for your post, and yes, I know what you say and I know it too, but we know that sometimes dealing with end customers is something you´ll never stop learning with what *stupid question they will come out, and as an IT professional, I need to behave myself no matter wrong the customer is.

 

I tested stopping the array and the server name appears in all windows terminals and when the array is start again, it just goes away. When array stopped, no shares are being shown.

 

All disks are in ZFS from scratch from previous version 6.x.x

 

Thanks for supporting this.

 

I´ll try that UD thing you meantioned, I´ll let you know how it goes.

 

Regards

3 hours ago, Frank1940 said:

 

This is all assuming that the change that 'broke' things on the Unraid side of the equation. I have heard that there are problems in the 24H2 version of Windows File Manager that are suppose to be address in the February updates. Not sure if these issues affected any other versions.  Samba was updated in this latest Unraid version.   Unfortunately, most most people simply allow Windows updates to just happen.  Unfortunately the release of Unraid 7.0 was January 9th and the January Windows update was January 14th...

 

Good luck on the rollback.  Let us know if it fixes things...

Yeah, All windows terminal are updated and I waited a week or so to update UNRAID from it´s previous version to 7.0.0 most of it to take advantage of ZFS.

 

In my scenario, all the 15 terminals stopped showing the server icon in the network neighborhood just after the update, and a few minutes back I tested stopping the array as I read above and same happened, server icon showed up and when array started again, server icon goes off.

 

For the time being shares works reaching them as I mentioned before (\\servername or IP\share_name) and thing won´t escalated as a nightmare as sometimes after big updates may occur.

 

Thanks!

11 hours ago, JorgeB said:

Users having this issue, where the server disappears from the Windows network neighborhood after array start, but shows up with the array stopped, please try restarting Samba after array start to see if it helps:

 

rc.samba restart

 

Didn't seem to make any difference.

 

Kept an eye on Network in File Explorer and didn't see it pop up like I do on reboot.

10 hours ago, Xrathe said:

Didn't seem to make any difference.

OK, thanks for testing, the problem with this issue is that it only happens to a few users, I managed to reproduce it a couple of days ago with one of my server, but yesterday no longer could.