Unraid and TL-WR841N wifi router

[gnollo]

I'd like to share this issue, to see if anyone knows why this occurs.

My unraid server is connected to a Gigabyte switch. I recently connected said TL-WR841N as I was looking to get better wi-fi connectivity (it offers n speed).

Two problems. If I connect it to the switch as a router (lan cable into the upling), it won't let me see any PCs on the network.

If I connect it to the other LAN ports, and disable DHCP, everything works with one MASSIVE PROBLEM.

Reads and writes to Unraid go all the way down to nought.

Copying an avi file from uraid will interrupt half way through with 20kb speeds, and write goes up to 150kbps.

Turned the router off and I now have speeds back up to 8.3MB/second (which is still a tad slow but MASSIVLY faster than 20kb speed).

What gives?

[garycase]

It's not real clear just how you have this setup.  There's no "uplink" port on a switch.

 

Do you have multiple DHCP servers on your network?

[gnollo]

The switch does not have an uplink port, but the wifi router does (blue) as you can see in the picture link below

 

http://www.faculty-x.net/images/TL-WR841N-04.jpg

 

My network is a 1GB network with one broadband router connected to two GIGA switches and 4 PCs with Giga network cards + unraid tower hanging off it.

All acquiring automatically DNS and IP.

I'm not sure what a DHCP server is, really. (I confess my ignorance...)

[trurl]

Normally the "uplink" is for WAN, i.e. connecting to the internet.

 

Still unclear what your network configuration is. Since you were not trying to use this router as intended to connect to the internet, is there another router in your network that does connect to the internet? Maybe your internet provider gave you a router to access their services? Sounds like you may have multiple DHCP as garycase said.

 

If this is what you have then you will need to configure your new router as a wireless access point and turn off its DHCP.

 

 

[gnollo]

Normally the "uplink" is for WAN, i.e. connecting to the internet.

 

Still unclear what your network configuration is. Since you were not trying to use this router as intended to connect to the internet, is there another router in your network that does connect to the internet? Maybe your internet provider gave you a router to access their services? Sounds like you may have multiple DHCP as garycase said.

 

If this is what you have then you will need to configure your new router as a wireless access point and turn off its DHCP.

 

Correct, the internet provider gave me a router (THOMSON) to access their services. This is then connected to one switch, which is then connected to another switch, which is connected to:

- the unraid server on one port

- the wireless access point, with DHCP turned off on another port

With the wireless router ON write speeds go down to 115Kb on the unraid server.

With the Wireless router OFF write speeds go up to almost 9MB.

 

Why is this happening?

[Joe L.]

Normally the "uplink" is for WAN, i.e. connecting to the internet.

 

Still unclear what your network configuration is. Since you were not trying to use this router as intended to connect to the internet, is there another router in your network that does connect to the internet? Maybe your internet provider gave you a router to access their services? Sounds like you may have multiple DHCP as garycase said.

 

If this is what you have then you will need to configure your new router as a wireless access point and turn off its DHCP.

 

Correct, the internet provider gave me a router (THOMSON) to access their services. This is then connected to one switch, which is then connected to another switch, which is connected to:

- the unraid server on one port

- the wireless access point, with DHCP turned off on another port

With the wireless router ON write speeds go down to 115Kb on the unraid server.

With the Wireless router OFF write speeds go up to almost 9MB.

 

Why is this happening?

Most likely there is an IP address conflict on the wireless router or somewhere on your LAN.

 

Please list the IP addresses of:

The thompson router = ??

The wireless access point = ??  (with DHCP turned off and using either ONLY the LAN ports or ONLY the (uplink) WAN port.  It must be set as an access point only.  What specific make/model is it?)

The unRAID server = ??

 

What specific make/model switches are you using?

 

Did you wire the cables between the devices?  (if yes) Did you attach the ends?  What wiring scheme did you use?

Are the cables cat5e, or cat6 ?  (cat5 is NOT sufficient for GB speed, it must be cat5e or cat6)

 

You should ONLY have one LAN cable connected to the Thompson router.  It should go to the first of your switches.  The ONLY exceptions would be devices that are only 100Mb/s devices that cannot go any faster.  (Many media players ONLY have a 100Mb/s LAN connection)

 

Joe L. 

 

[PeterB]

If I connect it to the switch as a router (lan cable into the upling), it won't let me see any PCs on the network.

Not surprising - connected to the wan (uplink) port means that your unRAID server is on a different (sub)net to the rest of your devices.

 

If the address/routing is not set appropriately, then there will be no traffic between the two sides.

[garycase]

When you refer to "...  the wireless access point, with DHCP turned off on another port "  ==> Is that an access point;  or simply a router you're using as an access point?

 

If it's a router, you should be connecting to one of the LAN ports on it -- NOT the WAN port (it should be empty).  In addition, DHCP has to be disabled AND you need to be sure that (as noted already) there are no IP address conflicts.

 

First test:  Take the "access point" out of the setup (just unplug the connection) and see if all works well.  If so, then your issue is clearly a configuration problem with the access point -- and we can get some info from it that will let you resolve it.

 

[unevent]

Taking a stab in the dark on this, but I suspect your Thomson modem is also a wireless device.  It is probably also set up the same way you set up your new TP-Link wireless N router (SSID and security).  You also mentioned the new wireless router is N based and you wanted the better N speeds, so I suspect your existing Thomson device is G.  If I am correct, then I have a couple suggestions.  If all your wireless devices (computers, tablets, etc.) are all N based, then I suggest disabling the wireless capability of your Thomson modem and use only the new router.  If you have a mixture of G and N devices then keep the Thomson and connect all G devices to it.  All N devices should be connected to your new TP-Link router and it should be set for N only.  It should also have a unique SSID in this case on the TP-Link N router, say "gnolloN" - something to identify it as N only and be different than the Thomson device.  You can use the same security setup and key if you wish (though suggest WPA2 Personal + AES with at least 20 character alpha-numeric key for both if not already using it).  What this will do is separate all G and N devices so that the TP-LinK N router will operate at full N speed.  When you have G and N together on the same router things slow down.

 

If you have both wireless routers (Thomson and the TP-Link) on the same SSID and security setup, and more importantly on the same channel or within two channels of each other, what is happening is you are most likely getting reduced speeds because the routers are having to negotiate with each other for transmit/receive time.  If you want to keep both on the same SSID and operate both wide open (no regard for isolating G and N devices) then set them to isolated channels such as 1, 6 or 11.  Even if there are 10 other routers on those channels you want to still use those three channels.  Set the Thomson on 1, 6 or 11, and the TP-link to one of the other two, just not the same as the Thomson.  This will allow your routers to communicate with your neighboring routers for air time and will be less interference because of transmitters on the overlapping side channels (2-5, 7-10).  It will not address the issue of a neighbor on one of the overlapping side channels, but at least your own two are not fighting each other, which should have the higher power.  A program called Inssider (search on Google, free download) is a valuable tool to use for seeing what your wireless environment looks like.

 

I assume your Thomson modem is giving out the DHCP addresses which is why you have DHCP disabled in the TP-Link device.  If that is the case, then you are fine.  As long as everything you want to connect to is on the same subnet (XXX.XXX.XXX.*).  It would help to know what switches you have, category of cabling (CAT 5, 5e or 6) and also how they are interconnected.  In the setup you have you do not want to use the WLAN port (blue port) of the TP-Link device.  That blue port would only be used if you wanted to bypass the Thomson device and use the TP-Link as your only router to the Internet.  The TP-Link in your scenario is only a wireless access point, it is not functioning as a router.

 

 

 

[gnollo]

Most likely there is an IP address conflict on the wireless router or somewhere on your LAN.

 

Please list the IP addresses of:

The thompson router = ??

The wireless access point = ??  (with DHCP turned off and using either ONLY the LAN ports or ONLY the (uplink) WAN port.  It must be set as an access point only.  What specific make/model is it?)

The unRAID server = ??

 

What specific make/model switches are you using?

 

Did you wire the cables between the devices?  (if yes) Did you attach the ends?  What wiring scheme did you use?

Are the cables cat5e, or cat6 ?  (cat5 is NOT sufficient for GB speed, it must be cat5e or cat6)

 

You should ONLY have one LAN cable connected to the Thompson router.  It should go to the first of your switches.  The ONLY exceptions would be devices that are only 100Mb/s devices that cannot go any faster.  (Many media players ONLY have a 100Mb/s LAN connection)

 

Joe L.

 

IP addresses of:

The thompson router = Thomson TG585 v7: IP 192.168.1.254

The wireless access point = TL-WR841N Wifi router IP address  192.168.1.66

DHCP turned off/using either ONLY the LAN ports

It must be set as an access point only [i don't believe this mode is available

The unRAID server = IP 192.168.1.73

What specific make/model switches are you using? Netgear GS605 5-Port Gigabit Platinum Switch

 

 

Did you wire the cables between the devices?  NO

Are the cables cat5e? I believe that they are CAT5

Even with CAT5, should I not get more than 10MB write speeds? Also how can I test how fast my LAN is?

 

 

[garycase]

Your Thomson modem is indeed also a wireless access point, so you may have some conflict between the two wireless nodes.

 

But that shouldn't impact wired connections.    Test this:  Take the new router out of the system, and see if all of your transfer speeds go back to normal.

 

[gnollo]

I disabled the Wi-Fi on the Thomson modem, was only using the other Wi-Fi router as Wi-Fi access point.

When I turned off the new TL-WR841N router all my transfer problems went away.

The question is why...

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[Joe L.]

With cat5 you will not likely get much more than 10MB/s speeds.  Sorry. 

 

you can type

ethtool eth0

 

It will ONLY show you the speed of the link to the switch.  If the connection to the PC from the switch is 100Mb/s about all you'll get to 10 to 12 MB/s throughput.

[Joe L.]

If you do have multiple wireless access points, they must be on DIFFERENT non-overlapping channels.  are they?

I personally have three wireless access points in my home, on non-overlapping channels 1, 6 and 11, on two separate LANS, with two different internet providers.    Most of devices on the LAN are not wireless, but I do have about 5 devices that are wireless, and a old enough house where a single access point does not cover it all. (wire-lath in walls/under floor tiles make it difficult to get coverage)

[gnollo]

Only had a problem with the lan connections speed to the unraid server, no issues with Wi-Fi per se.

Your explanation of the limitations of cat 5 makes sense will test your command tomorrow

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[garycase]

Simply connecting the router as an access point -- with NO connections to the LAN ports (except the cable from it to the switch) should not impact your speeds.  If, however, you're connecting anything to the LAN ports on the new router, THAT will slow whatever's connected down to 100Mb, since that router doesn't have gigabit ports.

 

Is that by chance what you were doing?

 

[unevent]

I believe garycase hit the nail.  If the unRAID server is plugged into the TP-Link router then you have reduced the connectivity of it on your network to 100Mb/s or 100/8=12.5MB/s (not subtracting the overhead).  If you keep the unRAID server connected to you Netgear gigabit switch then you will retain gigabit speed potential of 1000/8=125MB/s (~117MB/s actual TCP throughput after overhead) for wired devices.  Enjoy the higher wireless speeds with the TP-Link, but don't plug gigabit devices into the LAN ports on it or include it in the daisy chaining between gigabit switches.

[gnollo]

With cat5 you will not likely get much more than 10MB/s speeds.  Sorry. 

 

you can type

ethtool eth0

 

It will ONLY show you the speed of the link to the switch.  If the connection to the PC from the switch is 100Mb/s about all you'll get to 10 to 12 MB/s throughput.

 

This is what telnet reports when I type the command

 

 

 

"root@Tower:~# ethtool eth0

Settings for eth0:

        Supported ports: [ TP ]

        Supported link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full

                                100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full

                                1000baseT/Full

        Supports auto-negotiation: Yes

        Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full

                                100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full

                                1000baseT/Full

        Advertised pause frame use: Symmetric Receive-only

        Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes

        Speed: 1000Mb/s

        Duplex: Full

        Port: Twisted Pair

        PHYAD: 0

        Transceiver: internal

        Auto-negotiation: on

        MDI-X: Unknown

        Supports Wake-on: pumbg

        Wake-on: g

        Current message level: 0x00000033 (51)

        Link detected: yes"

 

[gnollo]

I believe garycase hit the nail.  If the unRAID server is plugged into the TP-Link router then you have reduced the connectivity of it on your network to 100Mb/s or 100/8=12.5MB/s (not subtracting the overhead).  If you keep the unRAID server connected to you Netgear gigabit switch then you will retain gigabit speed potential of 1000/8=125MB/s (~117MB/s actual TCP throughput after overhead) for wired devices.  Enjoy the higher wireless speeds with the TP-Link, but don't plug gigabit devices into the LAN ports on it or include it in the daisy chaining between gigabit switches.

 

Nothing is plugged in the TP-Link Router, but a lan cable connecting the router from one of the LAN ports to the switch (the same Giga switch that is feeding the unraid server).

For the purpose of testing I even turned BOTH WIFI off, the only connection I was testing was the Lan connection between unraid and another PC connected via the giga switch.

With the router turned on, I was getting 150 KBps speeds. With the router off, speeds were back up to 10MBps.

I reckon that the fact that I cannot set the router as access point (the mode just is not an option) is creating some interference when I turn DHCP off for the router. It is going back!

 

On another note, as I am already running CAT5 cable in the wall, and I don't want to break the whole house apart, is there any way to convert CAT5 to CAT6, without replacing the entire cable?

[garycase]

is there any way to convert CAT5 to CAT6, without replacing the entire cable?

 

No.  However, as long as it's Cat-5e (not just Cat-5) you'll get very good bandwidth anyway.

 

Question:  Is the cable run from your switch to UnRAID one of the Cat-5 runs in the walls?

 

If so, buy a long patch cable (Cat-6) and use it to make that connection, to see if that makes a difference.    You MAY have a wire pair that's lost continuity -- if one of the pairs isn't solidly connected, the result will be MUCH slower connection speeds.    Wouldn't explain why connecting your new router is causing issues;  but may explain why even your "hi" speeds are still fairly slow.

 

[unevent]

CAT 5 and 5e are both spec'd at 100MHz bandwidth.  The only difference is slightly tighter crosstalk limits on 5e and some new crosstalk limits that didn't exist on 5.  As long as your runs are fairly short (<~50ft) you will be fine at gigabit speeds with that cable.

 

[garycase]

CAT 5 and 5e are both spec'd at 100MHz bandwidth.  The only difference is slightly tighter crosstalk limits on 5e and some new crosstalk limits that didn't exist on 5.  As long as your runs are fairly short (<~50ft) you will be fine at gigabit speeds with that cable.

 

There's a VERY significant difference in the specifications of Cat-5 and Cat-5e.  The more stringent specifications of 5e puts limits on the crosstalk, and enhances the bandwidth from 100MHz for Cat-5 to 350MHz for Cat-5e.  The result is that Cat-5e can easily support Gigabit networks at modest distances.  Cat-6 cables have a bandwidth of 550MHz and are "certified" for Gigabit, so I'd certainly use those for any new runs or new patch cables.

 

[unevent]

CAT 5 and 5e are both spec'd at 100MHz bandwidth.  The only difference is slightly tighter crosstalk limits on 5e and some new crosstalk limits that didn't exist on 5.  As long as your runs are fairly short (<~50ft) you will be fine at gigabit speeds with that cable.

 

There's a VERY significant difference in the specifications of Cat-5 and Cat-5e.  The more stringent specifications of 5e puts limits on the crosstalk, and enhances the bandwidth from 100MHz for Cat-5 to 350MHz for Cat-5e.  The result is that Cat-5e can easily support Gigabit networks at modest distances.  Cat-6 cables have a bandwidth of 550MHz and are "certified" for Gigabit, so I'd certainly use those for any new runs or new patch cables.

 

Might be falling for marketing hype on those bandwidth specifications.  By the spec (TIA/EIA-568-A*, TIA/EIA-568B.2-1*), 5 & 5e are 100MHz, 6 is 250MHz, 6a is 500MHz.  A manufacturer can sweep a cable to whatever they want and advertise it as such, but the TIA/EIA-568 standards are the requirement.  A good read: http://www.gocsc.com/UserFiles/File/Panduit/Panduit098765.pdf and another http://www.scatmag.com/technical/techarticle_dec02.pdf.  NEXT for 5e vs 5 is +3dB, ELFEXT is +0.4dB difference.  As I said crosstalk specs were tightened and new specs added.  5e would be the minimum for gigabit on new installations, but if you had to use 5 it's not the end of the world if you use it correctly.

[garycase]

The specifications only require 100MHz for Cat-5/5e, and 250MHz for Cat-6;  but virtually all Cat-5e cables made in recent years have 350MHz bandwidth, and Cat-6 cables are 500-550MHz.

 

Note that EIA-568 standards set MINIMUM bandwidth requirements, and these include the entire infrastructure ... cables, connecting hardware, patch cords, channels, etc. and also specific the acceptable insertion loss, NEXT loss, and far end crosstalk levels (ELFEXT).    The actual bandwidth of the actual cables depends on a variety of factors, but the simple fact is that virtually all modern Cat-5e cables are rated at ~ 350MHz, and Cat-6 at 500-550Mhz.

 

FWIW, I still have 100' patch cables in all 3.  If I use 100' patch cables between the SAME two systems with Gigabit NICS, I get ~ 160Mb/s with Cat-5;  800Gb/s with Cat-5e; and 920Gb/s with Cat-6 ... all measured transferring the same 8GB file.  The Cat-5e is labeled "Cat-5e 350MHz".  The dismal performance of the Cat-5 cable may be due to its age (late 1990's), but I don't think so.    The Cat-5e cord is also pretty old (don't recall exactly when I got it).

 

[gnollo]

The specifications only require 100MHz for Cat-5/5e, and 250MHz for Cat-6;  but virtually all Cat-5e cables made in recent years have 350MHz bandwidth, and Cat-6 cables are 500-550MHz.

 

Note that EIA-568 standards set MINIMUM bandwidth requirements, and these include the entire infrastructure ... cables, connecting hardware, patch cords, channels, etc. and also specific the acceptable insertion loss, NEXT loss, and far end crosstalk levels (ELFEXT).    The actual bandwidth of the actual cables depends on a variety of factors, but the simple fact is that virtually all modern Cat-5e cables are rated at ~ 350MHz, and Cat-6 at 500-550Mhz.

 

FWIW, I still have 100' patch cables in all 3.  If I use 100' patch cables between the SAME two systems with Gigabit NICS, I get ~ 160Mb/s with Cat-5;  800Gb/s with Cat-5e; and 920Gb/s with Cat-6 ... all measured transferring the same 8GB file.  The Cat-5e is labeled "Cat-5e 350MHz".  The dismal performance of the Cat-5 cable may be due to its age (late 1990's), but I don't think so.    The Cat-5e cord is also pretty old (don't recall exactly when I got it).

 

Thanks for the explanation, do you have any links to the patch cable you described, I'd like to buy some and proceed with testing.

Thanks!