Help needed for new build

[WorriedAboutDataLoss]

Hello.

 

My first post on this forum - have been a long time lurker and reading up a lot of stuff here and on the Wiki. I'm finally thinking of putting together my firsy unRaid server. I want to use a few of my existing components:

 

- Intel D865GVHZ micro-ATX motherboard - Has 2 onboard SATA slots + 3 PCI slots

- Celeron-D processor

- 1280 MB RAM (1GB stick + 256 MB stick)

- PNY 2.0 16GB DRIVE (has Unique GUID)

 

I already tried putting unRaid on the above hardware and was able to boot properly and even run pre_clear on an old IDE hard drive I had sitting around.

 

I will definitely need a new case + power supply (the current PSU I have is an old 200W on it's last leg) + SATA expansion card

 

I'll be setting up with a max of 6-7 drives (1 parity, 1 cache and 4-5 data drives) and don't see it growing in the near future (atleast a couple of years)

 

Here's what I'm thinking:

PSU : CORSAIR CX500M - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=17-139-050&Tpk=17-139-050

Case: Antec 302 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129180

SATA Expansion card - ?? I have No idea!!

 

Is there a smaller case which I can use - I'm very interested in the Fractal Design Node 304 but not sure it can hold my micro-ATX board. Something which can be left in the living room and still keep 'she who must be obeyed' happy. Otherwise I'll have to put it in a closet.

 

I plan on running plex / PMS media server on this box once setup with unRaid. Is my CPU / RAM up to this OR will I be better off going with an entirely new build?

 

Thoughts / suggestions / concerns appreciated!!

[garycase]

The Node 304 does not work with micro-ATX motherboards.

 

Nevertheless, I'd bite the bullet and replace the motherboard/CPU so you can use a mini-ITX based system.    FAR smaller; VERY quiet; and very low power.

 

I used a Lian-Li PC-Q25B with the Supermicro  X7SPA-H-D525-O board an am VERY happy with this build -- great performance; only 20 watts power consumption on idle (drives spun down); and a VERY nice case.    [http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X7SPA5 ]

But the Fractal Designs would be nice with it as well.

 

If you want a bit more "horsepower", this thread describes a very similar build that uses a Core architecture CPU instead of the Atom:  http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=24786.0

 

[mrow]

I don't know what your finances are like but that hardware is extremely dated and you should really just scrap it if you plan to use it for anything other than a plain file server.

 

For about $150 bucks you can get a Celeron G1620/motherboard/4GB of RAM that will be have enough on board SATA ports for the drives you plan to add and will be powerful enough for Plex video transcoding.

[dirtysanchez]

+1 to everything already mentioned. My build is the one garycase linked above BTW.

 

I notice you want to run PMS. If you are only going to be doing direct play streaming, the Atom build garycase mentioned will be sufficient. If you are looking to have PMS do transcoding you'll need a beefier processor like what I have in my build or similar (the Celeron G1620 mrow mentioned would also work and is 1/2 the price of my Core i3). If you don't know the difference between direct play and transcoding, either read up on the subject or just go with the beefier processor as transcoding is much easier if you don't want to deal with making sure your media is compatible with all of your playback devices.

[dirtysanchez]

Forgot to mention, the hardware you currently have could run unRAID and PMS and should work ok for direct play with PMS. Transcoding on the other hand won't work on that old hardware.

 

Better to scrap it and buy newer components if you can afford to do so.

[WorriedAboutDataLoss]

Thanks everyone!!

 

I think I've got motivated enough to shell out for a new setup and not use my existing parts. I was actually looking at both dirtysanchez's Landfill (mentioned above) build and greenythebeast's 'El Ilusionista' @ http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=25982.0

 

Currently I only stream / direct play and do absolutely no transcoding (480p rips of my physical DVDs) and some music (my current desktop is pulling media server duties using PMS). But I think it's nice to be prepared for future requirements.

 

Any thoughts on Core i3 (Intel architecture) for LandFill vs the AMD A6-5400K build for El Illusionista? I know it's mostly AMD / Intel preferences but any glaring differences I should keep in mind?

 

Cheers!

[mrow]

Thanks everyone!!

 

I think I've got motivated enough to shell out for a new setup and not use my existing parts. I was actually looking at both dirtysanchez's Landfill (mentioned above) build and greenythebeast's 'El Ilusionista' @ http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=25982.0

 

Currently I only stream / direct play and do absolutely no transcoding (480p rips of my physical DVDs) and some music (my current desktop is pulling media server duties using PMS). But I think it's nice to be prepared for future requirements.

 

Any thoughts on Core i3 (Intel architecture) for LandFill vs the AMD A6-5400K build for El Illusionista? I know it's mostly AMD / Intel preferences but any glaring differences I should keep in mind?

 

Cheers!

 

 

To be perfectly honest, there really aren't many scenarios where and AMD chip is a better choice these days. Performance per watt and performance per dollar both favor Intel. AMD's main advantage is gaming performance per dollar. For instance that A6-5400K you mentioned is about 30% slower, runs hotter and uses more electricity than the Celeron G1620 I mentioned, all while costing $10 more than the Celeron. The old AMD adage from a decade ago about GHz not being the most important factor in performance still holds true. That Celeron beats the AMD chip while running about 1GHz slower than the A6-5400K.

[garycase]

Any thoughts on Core i3 (Intel architecture) for LandFill vs the AMD A6-5400K build for El Illusionista?

 

Simple -- go with the Intel architecture as in LandFill.

 

A6-5400:  Scores 2153 on PassMark's CPUMark; 65w TDP

i3-3220T:  Scores 3729 on PassMark's CPUMark; 35w TDP

 

... so you use about half the energy and get almost twice the performance with the Intel CPU

 

If you want to spend a bit less for the CPU, the G1620 scores 2812 on PassMark, and has a 55w TDP, so it's still a better choice than the AMD chip.

 

Note that the Atom CPU I used in my server only scores 694 on PassMark ... but that's plenty for UnRAID => you only need more "oomph" if you're going to run CPU-intensive add-ons.  But it clearly wins on power consumption -- it's got a 13w TDP 

 

 

For what you've outlined, I'd build a clone of Landfill 

[dirtysanchez]

Again, agree with both garycase and mrow.  Intel is where it's at these days in both performance per watt and performance per dollar. 

 

I'm not sure where you live, but here in CA electricity isn't exactly cheap.  Since my server runs 24/7 I put a lot of thought into building a server that used as little power as possible while still having the horsepower I required for the plugins I wanted to run.  As a result, my server (while not as low power as garycase's Atom server) has pretty darn low power draw IMO, only 33W at idle.  Granted, a system that used say 60W at idle wouldn't break the bank on the electric bill, but why flush money down the toilet.

 

In addition, while TDP is a fairly good indicator of the max power a CPU will draw (even though it's really the amount of heat the cooling system for the CPU needs to dissipate) the CPU's in our servers spend the vast majority of their lives at idle.  And for the most part an Intel 55W TDP CPU will idle at the same power draw as an Intel 35W TDP CPU of the same family.

 

In other words, the Celeron G1620 will likely idle at the same power draw as my Core i3-3220T.  The difference will be when the CPU is working.  The Celeron will expend more power to do less work, but of course it's all relative.  Real world, the Celeron should be able to transcode 2 simultaneous 720p streams, where the Core i3 can do 3 to 4 simultaneous, and will cost a few dollars more per month in electricity to do so.  Either CPU would be a great choice for a SFF low-power unRAID + PMS server.

[dirtysanchez]

Of course, I also used 7200 RPM drives, not "green drives".  I wanted the blazing fast Seagate 1TB/platter drives and the difference in power consumption was negligible. 

[garycase]

dirtysanchez's 7200rpm drives are nice, but quite candidly I think the WD Reds are plenty fast enough 

 

Writes will be a bit better with the 7200rpm units;  but reads from the array are generally going to be limited by your network bandwidth ... and the Reds can saturate a Gb network, so anything faster won't help.

 

But I do like the parity check speeds dirtysanchez gets 

[dirtysanchez]

dirtysanchez's 7200rpm drives are nice, but quite candidly I think the WD Reds are plenty fast enough 

 

Writes will be a bit better with the 7200rpm units;  but reads from the array are generally going to be limited by your network bandwidth ... and the Reds can saturate a Gb network, so anything faster won't help.

 

But I do like the parity check speeds dirtysanchez gets 

 

All very valid points. 

 

I'm a big fan of the Reds myself as well, but the Seagates were on sale for such a great price when I built Landfill that I couldn't resist (especially with their awesome speeds).  In fact, over 6 months later, I still haven't seen a lower price.  $100/ea for the 3TB and $70/ea for the 2TB.

[mrow]

Writes will be a bit better with the 7200rpm units;  but reads from the array are generally going to be limited by your network bandwidth ... and the Reds can saturate a Gb network, so anything faster won't help.

 

 

Unless you're virtualized and using the vmxnet3 virtual NICs, then you want as fast as you can get. 

[WorriedAboutDataLoss]

Just one last question - in dirtysanchez's LandFill build the motherboard specs show 4 3Gb/s and 2 6Gb/s SATA ports.

 

I'm assuming it doesn't really matter that 4 of those ports are at slower 3Gb/s bus speeds.

 

The drives I'm currently planning to use

Cache : Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm : 2 GB

Parity : Seagate Go-flex 3TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA1 : Seagate Go-flex 3TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA2 : Seagate Go-flex 2TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA3 : Seagate Go-flex 2TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA4 : Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm : 2 GB

[dirtysanchez]

Just one last question - in dirtysanchez's LandFill build the motherboard specs show 4 3Gb/s and 2 6Gb/s SATA ports.

 

I'm assuming it doesn't really matter that 4 of those ports are at slower 3Gb/s bus speeds.

 

The drives I'm currently planning to use

Cache : Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm : 2 GB

Parity : Seagate Go-flex 3TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA1 : Seagate Go-flex 3TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA2 : Seagate Go-flex 2TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA3 : Seagate Go-flex 2TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA4 : Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm : 2 GB

 

Correct, it does not matter. Even the fastest spinner drives (the Seagate 1TB/platter drives) can only do about 1.5Gb/s max throughput. If you were using SSD's you would want all 6Gb/s ports, but for spinners 3Gb/s is plenty.

[BobPhoenix]

Writes will be a bit better with the 7200rpm units;  but reads from the array are generally going to be limited by your network bandwidth ... and the Reds can saturate a Gb network, so anything faster won't help.

 

 

Unless you're virtualized and using the vmxnet3 virtual NICs, then you want as fast as you can get. 

But that only helps when you are communicating between VMs.  If your connections are external to the box you are still limited by your nic.  Teaming can help that out.

[garycase]

Just one last question - in dirtysanchez's LandFill build the motherboard specs show 4 3Gb/s and 2 6Gb/s SATA ports.

 

I'm assuming it doesn't really matter that 4 of those ports are at slower 3Gb/s bus speeds.

 

The drives I'm currently planning to use

Cache : Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm : 2 GB

Parity : Seagate Go-flex 3TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA1 : Seagate Go-flex 3TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA2 : Seagate Go-flex 2TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA3 : Seagate Go-flex 2TB drive (will take the drive out of the enclosure)

DATA4 : Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm : 2 GB

 

As already noted, it really won't make any significant difference with spinning platter drives ... the only transfers that are at interface speed are buffer-host transfers, which are a VERY tiny percentage of the disk activity.

 

There is, however, a newer version of that board that has all 6Gb SATA ports:

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-H87IPLU

 

It's a Socket 1150 board, so you have to use one of the new Haswell CPU's with it.  This would be a good choice:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116897

 

Adds a few $$ to the cost, but it scores 4854 on PassMark ... so you'd have more CPU "horsepower" than you'd ever need for UnRAID use.  It does have a fairly high TDP 65w), but it idles at very low wattage, and in this application you'd almost never be pushing it beyond a very low utilization %.

 

There will also be some lower cost Haswell CPU's released in September, which the Pentium and Core i3 chips will be released.    There's a very nice 35w Core i3 4130T in that mix, which would be a good choice if you want to wait for it.    But the Core i5-4570S is a superb choice, and will give you more power than the i3 ... so unless the cost is a deterrent, there's no reason to wait.

 

[WorriedAboutDataLoss]

Thanks everyone for all your help so far!!

 

I might / might not come into some used hardware at a very big discount and could end up going in an entirely different direction compared to this SFF build. Wanted to get an opinion here on how good the following CPU / motherboard combo will do (for the same purpose - Media server + file server + some Plex transcoding)

 

Motherboard - ASUS F2A55-M/CSM - Has 6 Onboard SATA ports

CPU - AMD A4-5300 Trinity 3.4GHz Socket FM2 65W Dual-Core Desktop APU (scores 2052 on PassMark)

Memory - Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600

[Ford Prefect]

...I am not that fond of comparing benchmarks between platforms.

In a real life scenario, with live-transcoding for concurrent users/clients, there is an advantage in having more real cores,

even if benchmarks are in the same range.

 

Also - and I think we've had that discussion already somewhere here in the forums - what is the value of live-transcoding?

With disk space in abundance, pre-transcoding and storing the media-files with different resolutions (and sizes) for each client capability is a feasible option.

Does it really matter if it takes a day/week/month longer to do that transcoding work for your existing library?

 

Coming back to your option on that AMD box...

The basic advantages/disadvantages for AMD vs. Intel have been laid out in this thread already.

So is this a "AMD vs Intel" decision/thingy for you?

That would be perfectly OK, but if it "has to" be AMD, I'd go and search for an AM3+ based build,

with ASUS mobo and CPU (with DDR3 memory support) with a passmark to your liking (without transcoding, even a Sempron 145 will do).

Check the mobo specs with ASUS and if it supports ECC (most AM3+ models do) then upgrade to ECC RAM.

'*THIS* is a real advantage for an unRAID setup from AMD over Intel, because from Intel you can't have that with a desktop mobo.

[WorriedAboutDataLoss]

Thanks Ford Perfect.

 

Right now - it's not a question of Intel vs AMD for me. I'm open to both platforms - no bias here. Just need to know if this particular combo will do the job as I can get it on the cheap (someone nearby is selling it used) or will I regret getting it a couple of months down the line

 

I may not even be using it for transcoding. Just want to make sure I can run Plex / PMS plugins on this system

 

Thanks again!

[Ford Prefect]

...technically the AMD combo would do OK for that...with 8GB of RAM you can do whatever may lie ahead, in terms of no. of plugins employed.

The GPU in it is a waste...the combo will consume a lot more power.

You are still missing other parts for your build....if this combo would save you just 50-100 bucks out of maybe a 1000 total (including disks), I'd go with a complete new intel based combo if the money is at hand.

 

...if live-transcoding is out of the equation, go have a look at the Celeron847 mobos, discused here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=27265.0 ...add RAM and check if the used AMD will beat that price.

 

Edit: the plain 847-mobo will limit your build to 4 disks initially...things to consider.