jbrodriguez Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 i've been hearing about docker for a while now, but never quite understood what it was. as virtualization is in the process of being incorporated into unraid, i started researching a bit more about different options smartos as suggested by grumpybutfun is a nice option. then i took the time to discover more about docker and it seems really cool, although i haven't played with it yet some good explanations i found are https://www.docker.io/learn_more/ http://www.activestate.com/blog/2013/06/solomon-hykes-explains-docker http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1emva0/docker_way_better_than_a_vm/ food for thought ... something i'm considering for the overhaul of my media/storage setup Quote Link to comment
spants Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just to let you know that you are not the only one interested in Docker!. It would be great to have a 64bit host, Unraid VM with docker modules for couch, sb, mysql etc Tony Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Just to let you know that you are not the only one interested in Docker!. It would be great to have a 64bit host, Unraid VM with docker modules for couch, sb, mysql etc Tony Agreed Quote Link to comment
nicinabox Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Isn't docker designed for deploying apps? It's a higher level tool than would be necessary to distributing modules. I highly doubt all this is necessary to distribute couch: Download the base image from the docker index Create a new LXC container Allocate a filesystem for it Mount a read-write layer Allocate a network interface Setup an IP for it, with network address translation Modules should be distributed at the package level, not the application level. Docker is a great tool, it's just not really designed for the problems that we have, IMO. Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Docker IMHO is the future for a load of things people use VMs for this now. It doesn't do everything a VM can do but when you can use Docker it is vastly more efficient than a VM. There is a reason it is new cool kid in town and would be perfect for unRAID appliance model as it can run in isolation, is portable and has relatively minimal requirements. Its one down side is it often hard to explain exactly what it is and what it is for. I HIGHLY recommend anyone interested in VMs to make a cup of coffee, turn the phone off and spend 15 mins here: https://www.docker.io/gettingstarted/ for some it will come as a revelation. Quote Link to comment
jbrodriguez Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 i have to agree with spants, prostuff1 and NAS. i sense a hint of an unraid docker suggestion from the post by NAS, but then again i may have misread from all the virtualization discussions, i came up with ONE TRUTH , for me at least .. i want unraid to have bare metal access to it's hard disks. from the little i know about docker, seems that an unraid container might have bare metal access to the underlying disks, it's an interesting concept. for the time being, i'm going back to unraid running bare (two separate arrays) and i'm throwing esxi out in favor of an ubuntu 12.04 host, with a couple zfs pools and filesystems, running kvm and docker containers to replace the apps i previously ran in different esxi vms. i don't have plans as of yet for kvm vm's, but i will install it just in case. i will post about it in a couple of days. Quote Link to comment
spants Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The docker tutorial is great!... also check out this youtube video and think about how it could be used for the "packages" we install in unraid (shipyard looks useful!) Tony Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The big plus point is that there is a whole community working on Docker stuff. So for example want rtorrent: https://index.docker.io/u/novo/rtorrent/ or something simpler like nmap: https://index.docker.io/u/xorbyte/nmap/ or even a whole LAMP stack to play with https://index.docker.io/u/nickgs/lamp/ Quote Link to comment
spants Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Oh yes! Looks like the tools that I need... So a 64bit linux base with docker, unraidVM and this would be 90% of my requirements. Probably just crashplan (native install perhaps?) https://github.com/GeoffreyPlitt/docker-pirateship ================================= A pirate ship built on Docker. This project pulls several Docker'fied downloading tools and runs them in a Vagrant VM. Tools included: CouchPotato via https://github.com/GeoffreyPlitt/docker-couchpotato Headphones via https://github.com/GeoffreyPlitt/docker-headphones NZBmegasearcH via https://github.com/GeoffreyPlitt/docker-megasearch Sabnzbd via https://github.com/GeoffreyPlitt/docker-sabnzb Sick Beard via https://github.com/GeoffreyPlitt/docker-sickbeard Usage: vagrant up Then go to: CouchPotato: http://localhost:5050 Headphones: http://localhost:8181 NZBmegasearcH: http://localhost:5000 Sabnzbd: http://localhost:8080 Sick Beard: http://localhost:8081 Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I am genuinely surprised given the level of quite a few users here this thread hasn't exploded. Is Docker still to new to be cool? Quote Link to comment
PCRx Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm still trying to figure out what benefit this will provide. I already have ESXI with unRaid and all my VM's doing what I need. What's the benefit in adding another layer just to do what I'm already doing? Quote Link to comment
jbrodriguez Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'm still trying to figure out what benefit this will provide. I already have ESXI with unRaid and all my VM's doing what I need. What's the benefit in adding another layer just to do what I'm already doing? with docker, you wouldn't need to run esxi and full blown vms. each app you currently run in a vm, would become a docker container, which is a lot less resource intensive than a vm. also, you wouldn't need a vt-d capable motherboard to run docker apps, a regular motherboard would do just fine. among other things Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 In simple terms Docker gives you the abilty to run an app as a container (think like an isoltaed VM). They are portable so if I make one you can use it. This is guarateed and doesnt require you to worry about base OS etc etc. What the dev runs the user can run. because you dont need to virtualise the whole OS the wasy ESXi does it is super efficient. You could easily run thousands of them if needed on a single machine. Also that single machine does not have to be super specific to whatever the VM wants i.e. on a VMware whitelist. Here is an exmaple. Let say someone wants ot make a plugin for unRAID. Lets say this is curl for simplicty. lets also say I want to make that to tun within ubuntu. Here is the complete procedure: docker pull ubuntu docker run -t -i ubuntu apt-get install curl thats it done. lets run it docker run -t ubuntu curl www.google.com That is a trivial basic example but it should be obvious how this can scale and there are some extra super clever tricks in there. Quote Link to comment
jumperalex Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 There needs to be an emoticon here for [head exploding] ... so what do we need to get docker installed unraid? Do we really need 64-bit first? Do we need something other than slackware? Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The simple answer to that is probably not a lot. Just some general excitement and want for the feature would likely get us most of the way there as compared to some of the things being thrown about here docker is technically a relatively easy add. And if that blows your mind check out the relative speed of running something. It is up and running before ESX begins to start the virtual bios Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I currently run plugins for some of my things on unRAID, but this is all within an ESXi box. Assuming docker gets added/supported I would probably move away from using the plugins and to using docker containers. It will not replace my ESXi setup as I do other things with it, but I could see it replacing my use of some plugins. I prefer the ESXi approach to virtualization as opposed to that being proposed with KVM/Xen. I think KVM/Xen has it merits but I would not use it for the XBMC stuff that proponents of it like to push. To each there own. Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Coincidently I think we are in the same boat. I have unRAID and I also have ESX. I wont be dropping ESX as it does things i need that nothing else can. However that is not to say that Docker is not a better way to do many of the things I previously could only use ESX for. In certain scenario Docker beats ESX hands down and I suspect a crazy amount of what people do now with addons, plugins and stripped out VMs could be done better with Docker. And if you don't use it then it costs nothing. There is almost zero cost for the users who don't care for anything other than stock unRAID. This is a video talking about Docker. It is 47 mins long so not for everyone but its an easy watch and has examples that show you how cool it is. Introduction to Docker dotCloud founder and CTO Solomon Hykes recently stopped by Twitter HQ to show us Docker, an open source project designed to easily create lightweight, portable, self-sufficient containers from any application. Quote Link to comment
tallnerd1985 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Forgive my ignorance with Linux and such but ain't this pretty much the same thing as a jail on FreeNAS/NAS4Free? Quote Link to comment
grumpybutfun Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Forgive my ignorance with Linux and such but ain't this pretty much the same thing as a jail on FreeNAS/NAS4Free? I wouldn't say the same but it's similar. Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 yeah think of Docker as standardising and putting a useabilty framework around containers. Containers/jails have existed for ages in linux/bsd etc but as it hit mainline Linux ... and a few other things happened at round the same time... it became far more useful as a real world utility. Quote Link to comment
tallnerd1985 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 yeah think of Docker as standardising and putting a useabilty framework around containers. Containers/jails have existed for ages in linux/bsd etc but as it hit mainline Linux ... and a few other things happened at round the same time... it became far more useful as a real world utility. Thats cool. In all honesty, without rekindling the flame war, integrating this with the upcoming 64-bit edition of UNRaid along with maybe the kernel not so neutered down with KVM/QEMU support, UNRaid would be a killer NAS solution without deviating too much from the appliance methodology. Quote Link to comment
prostuff1 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 yeah think of Docker as standardising and putting a useabilty framework around containers. Containers/jails have existed for ages in linux/bsd etc but as it hit mainline Linux ... and a few other things happened at round the same time... it became far more useful as a real world utility. Thats cool. In all honesty, without rekindling the flame war, integrating this with the upcoming 64-bit edition of UNRaid along with maybe the kernel not so neutered down with KVM/QEMU support, UNRaid would be a killer NAS solution without deviating too much from the appliance methodology. Correct. Some like and prefer the "appliance" approach that has existed for a very long time. I am one of those. Some like and prefer the I have everything at my finger tips. This is all fine and dandy, different strokes for different folks. Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Something else to consider is that Docker gives you dependency isolation. unRAID OS updates would not break addons. Other addons could not break your addon (common with python etc). This alone is a huge deal when like me you want the reliability of an appliance over all other things. With isolation be a primitive (as they call it) unRAID should in theory never be impacted by addons no matter how crazy they are. I mean you can rm -rf / in a Docker container and it would make zero difference to unRAID host. Quote Link to comment
tallnerd1985 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Something else to consider is that Docker gives you dependency isolation. unRAID OS updates would not break addons. Other addons could not break your addon (common with python etc). This alone is a huge deal when like me you want the reliability of an appliance over all other things. With isolation be a primitive (as they call it) unRAID should in theory never be impacted by addons no matter how crazy they are. I mean you can rm -rf / in a Docker container and it would make zero difference to unRAID host. My only concern is of two things. Can this be legally packaged with UNRaid or would it have to be a add-on from the stock image. Secondly, due to the nature of this product, there would still have to be maintainers of the docklets if I am not mistaken?(After reading the guides, it looks alot easier to make those opposed to a PLG install file) Quote Link to comment
grumpybutfun Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Can this be legally packaged with UNRaid or would it have to be a add-on from the stock image. Its GNU licensed software. Of course you can. If were to install Ubuntu, CentOS, Fedora, etc. with a GUI Desktop... You are talking about 1,200+ individual GNU Licensed software packages that make up the whole. Including Docker in a Distro (like unRAID) is no different than including XBMC, Samba, NFS, Apache, Gimp, Gnome, etc. Quote Link to comment
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