Time to consider a hardware refresh/Thoughts/Advice!

[SuperW2]

I built my original UnRaid server  back in 2008ish, it has changed and morphed a bit over the years (most recently in 2011), but generally has served it's purpose.  I’ve added storage, RAM, upgraded the original Celeron CPU, replaced the power-supply, and added drives and changed SAS Cards since originally built.  Store all my TV, Movies, Music, Data Backups, PC Backups, etc, etc. on there.  It has been great for everything I've thrown at it.

 

I think it's time I consider an upgrade of some of the guts (primarily MB, CPU, Case Fans and CPU Fan, and maybe new SAS Cards)… I think the Case is still decent, albeit HEAVY (holds my 19 Drives in the 4 5-in-3’s), I *think* the Power Supply is OK (more recent), but the MB/CPU are pretty dated and maybe the SAS/SATA cards are not optimal.

 

I also have a real NOISE (and heat) problem.  I have the 4 80mm Fans from the IcyDocks, then 3 other 80mm’s (2 at the bottom rear of case, 1  top middle of case blowing out) and a 120mm Rear behind the CPU and am using the stock Intel CPU Cooler which is also noisy.  Obviously not all my drives are “Green” but they still run pretty warm and the system is so loud when spun up, I actually have to turn it off to take conference calls when I’m working from my home office.  I know there are some quieter fan options (Coolink Swif2-801) for the 80mm’s, and I’m sure I can get something quieter for the CPU and the 120mm rear fan as well.

 

Here is my Config as of right now:

 

Case: Cooler Master CM Stacker STC-T01-UWK - http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16811119039

Motherboard: Asus P5B-VM DO v101.g - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131085

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4Ghz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115003

Power Supply: Cooler Master Silent Pro M - 1000W (RSA00-AMBAJ3-US) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171049

HD Trays: (4) x Icy Dock 5 In 3 MB455SPF-B http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994028&Tpk=MB455SPF-B

Memory: 4 GB Total - A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2 6400 and Corsair 2GB (2 x 1GB) PC2 6400

SATA/SAS Cards: SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816101358 and Adaptec RAID 1430SA http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816103105

Drives: - Ball Park of 30TB of used

Parity: 4TB Seagate ST4000DM000

Data

Qty 4 - ST31500341AS 1.5tb

Qty 1 - ST4000DM000 4.0tb

Qty 9 - ST1500DL003 1.5tb

Qty 4 - ST3000DM001 3.0tb

 

Here is an Outside view

 

So I guess the first question is does it seem to make the most sense to keep the case and 5-in-3 trays and Drives that I already have and upgrade the MB/CPU, etc?  I need to be able to support up to 20 drives total (which) is all I have physical space for without going External enclosure, which I don’t want to do. 

 

Any suggestions for MB/CPU Combos as well as “quieter” CPU Fans?  I don’t need to go bare bones (prefer Intel) and I do Plex streaming as well as Full BD and 1080P internally at home so willing to go bigger than I need if necessary for future growth.  No VM’s right now, but not out of the question in the future.

 

When I upgrade, can I just get all of the drives recognized on the new hardware and then reassign the drives in UnRaid without risk of losing my data as it (too big to backup)?

 

Thanks for looking and for your advice!

SW2

[garycase]

It looks like you've quite happy with the case; and it holds plenty of drives; so I'd keep it and just work on the "innards".

 

Are you unhappy with the performance?  ... or just the noise?    If the latter, then work on adding sound isolation foam to the sides of the case; and replace the fans with quieter fans.    Drives running warm are a good indication of one of two things:  (a) inadequate ventilation OR (b) the drives are beginning to fail (as they build up internal resistance, they run hotter).

 

It sounds like what you need to do more than replacing the motherboard/CPU/memory is to systematically replace your drives with NAS quality units (WD Reds or Seagate NAS) ... these will draw less power; run much cooler; and at the same time let you grow your storage capacity significantly as you replace your 1.5TB units with 4TB NAS drives.

 

Since the system "... has been great for everything I've thrown at it ", it's not clear why you want to replace the motherboard/CPU/RAM ... or even the SATA cards.    If you're looking for better CPU performance, then that makes sense -- but otherwise focus your efforts on improving the cooling and noise level.  The stock Intel cooler shouldn't be noisy => if it is, perhaps you simply need to remove it, clean it off and replace the thermal compound, and replace it.  Of you could add a nice 3rd party cooler instead.

 

As for the system being "too big to backup"  (as you noted here:

... without risk of losing my data  ... too big to backup ...

 

... Of course it's not.  I've got over 40TB, and it's certainly all backed up.    There may be data that's "not important enough to back up" ... but if you have data you don't want to lose, it should always be backed up.  UnRAID -- or any other RAID -- is NOT a backup ! 

 

My detailed thoughts on backups are here:  http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=31020.0

 

Note that as you replace older drives with newer higher-capacity NAS units, the old drives work very well for storing your backups.

 

[SuperW2]

I am unhappy with the performance (and noise/heat)... I am doing more BluRay streamed from Plex as well as would like to move my Sickbeard/SabNZB off my primary Window box to the UnRaid among other things.  Parity and rebuilds seem much slower than I think they should (I don't know the exact MB/Sec, but generally ~25-30 if I remember correctly).

 

Point taken on the backup comment, probably not articulated correctly... I do have files on my UnRaid that are in the dozens of TB range that I don't have anywhere else... I'd be sad if it were lost, but not sad enough to spend the $$$$ to spin up a secondary UnRAID to make a replica.  The "important" stuff is backed up from my Primary PC to the UnRaid as well as an offsite copy that I maintain on a quarterly basis.

[garycase]

The need for better performance puts a different light on things.  In that case, I'd absolutely replace the motherboard/CPU/RAM.    To maximize performance while also maximizing reliability, I'd go with a Haswell-based Xeon with ECC memory.    The SuperMicro boards that support E3 Xeons support ECC RAM, although it's still unbuffered.  With unbuffered ECC you'll still have superb reliability as long as you restrict yourself to 2 installed modules -- easy to do with a pair of 8GB ECC modules.

 

So ... in addition to improving your fans and sound insulation, I'd buy something like this:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182831

 

with two of these:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239399

 

and this CPU:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116909

 

or you could buy one of the SuperMicro boards with IPMI and use a Xeon without graphics

 

 

[neilt0]

RE: SABnzbd specifically, you could switch to nzbget and not need to upgrade because of that.

 

I run nzbget on a lower-end machine and max out my line (170mbps). My rebuilds are at over 100MB/sec, though (SATA II). I think the rebuilds are much down to the drive speed as much as anything though.

[SuperW2]

RE: SABnzbd specifically, you could switch to nzbget and not need to upgrade because of that.

 

I run nzbget on a lower-end machine and max out my line (170mbps). My rebuilds are at over 100MB/sec, though (SATA II). I think the rebuilds are much down to the drive speed as much as anything though.

 

Thanks, I'll look into it... I used SAB a while back on my UnRaid and didn't have much luck so I will give NZBGet a try... I also use Sickbeard which I"m also running on my Windows PC that I'd like to offload to the UNRaid.

[mrow]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Chip-Processor-3-4-BX80646E31240V3/dp/B00D697PZK/

[SuperW2]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Chip-Processor-3-4-BX80646E31240V3/dp/B00D697PZK/

 

I ordered the E3-1230 v3...There was a bundle deal with the SM MB and didn't see a HUGE difference in the Passmark scores between the 1230 and the 1240.

 

Here is what I ordered today...

Intel Intel Xeon E3-1230V3 Haswell 3.3GHz 8MB L3 C

SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O ATX Server Motherboard LGA

SUPERMICRO AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 PCI-Express 2.0 x8 SATA x2

Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR x2

[garycase]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

The integrated video on the E3-12x5 versions is only "useless" if you buy a motherboard with IPMI.

Note that I said that in my comment ... i.e.

 

... or you could buy one of the SuperMicro boards with IPMI and use a Xeon without graphics

 

[mrow]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

The integrated video on the E3-12x5 versions is only "useless" if you buy a motherboard with IPMI.

Note that I said that in my comment ... i.e.

 

... or you could buy one of the SuperMicro boards with IPMI and use a Xeon without graphics

 

 

I don't know of any board released in the last 5 years or so that will not default to the USB drive if none of the SATA drives have a bootable partition. I've set up many unraid servers for people without ever connecting them to a monitor. In fact I've never set up an unraid server with a monitor connected to it.

[garycase]

In fact I've never set up an unraid server with a monitor connected to it.

 

I haven't connected one in a while either; but I certainly like having the ABILITY to do so ... without the need to add a graphics card.    I prefer IPMI, but barring that I'd certainly use a chip with integrated graphics just for the option.    Trivial cost difference ... and just in case you ever wanted to repurpose the system it's certainly handy to have 

[SuperW2]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

The integrated video on the E3-12x5 versions is only "useless" if you buy a motherboard with IPMI.

Note that I said that in my comment ... i.e.

 

... or you could buy one of the SuperMicro boards with IPMI and use a Xeon without graphics

 

 

Thankfully the MB you recommended and linked in your earlier reply and the one that I ordered (SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O) has IPMI so getting the E3-12x0 v3 CPU should be OK, yes?  So if I want to plug VGA into the Server, just during config, I'll either have to add a Video Card, or connect via IPMI (which I have no clue how to do yet).

 

Also, I was thinking about my Power Supply, other than Noise (which I know it's making some) will it be OK with the MB/CPU Combo?  1000W, 80A on a single +12V Rail, which at the time back in late 2011 when I bought it was what was recommended for a "larger" 18-20 drive server.

[mrow]

That PSU should work since it's EPS 12V compliant but unless you can find another thread on here confirming it the only way to know is to try. Supermicro motherboards are notoriously picky.

[garycase]

As mrow noted, the PSU will probably work ... but Haswell based CPU's/chipsets require very precise power -- if you were buying a new PSU I"d suggest you only look at "Haswell certified" or "Haswell compliant" units.    Doesn't mean an older non-compliant unit won't work ... but as mrow noted, the only way to know for sure is to try it [This isn't really a Supermicro issue -- it's true of all Haswell boards].

 

[CaptainSpalding]

I have had the same case as OP. Now I have a bit similar Sharkoon Rebel 12 Value.

 

My problem has also been the slow parity checks and the noise.

 

But I have tested just about everything (I've even booted without CPU fan, heatsink only), but I think I comes down to the drives themselves. I have had about 50MB/s parity check speeds.

 

Now I have new unraid build with 4 x 4TB (Seagate DM's) drives in a 4-in-3 enclosure, that is not in a case, but has one 120mm fan cooling it. Now that IMO is near silent and the parity checks run at about 100MB/s (has 1.8Mhz Atom and 4GB 800Mhz RAM). 

 

So my goal has been to replace all my drives with newer 4TB drives and put them in these http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=249. That way there would be more space between the drives to for more airflow and maybe also could get lower rpm/CFM. There are also rubber grommets to reduce the vibration.

 

But have to see how the project completes.

 

 

 

 

[SSD]

Drives running warm are a good indication of one of two things:  (a) inadequate ventilation OR (b) the drives are beginning to fail (as they build up internal resistance, they run hotter).

 

garycase -

 

Is this your hypothesis or have references for this theory? I have never heard nor observed failing drives heating up.

 

I did a little searching and found what I already knew - hot drives can cause failure (although, interestingly, people are saying not as much as you might think), but I found no posts implying that heat was a symptom of failure.

[garycase]

Is this your hypothesis or have references for this theory? I have never heard nor observed failing drives heating up.

 

Not a hypothesis or theory -- it's a simple fact.  I've seen this for over 40 years on drives of all types.    There are numerous references that also list this as one of the symptoms of a failing drive -- here's one from Windows Server:  http://searchwindowsserver.techtarget.com/tip/Hard-disk-drives-dying-Six-signs-a-drive-is-about-to-fail

 

Note Item #5:  "... 5.Running hot. All drives get warm, but if the hard disk drive itself is running unusually hot compared to others in the enclosure, it is probably nearly the end of its useful life. "

 

 

[tr0910]

Gary I'm sure you are right, but we need to define what hot means. In this forum "hot" is thrown around quite loosely.  Some drives run hot at the best of times, and this is normal. Other drives normally run cool. It's only if you have some data to support abnormal temperature's that I would worry, and the first thing I would look for is fans seized up.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[garycase]

"Hot" in this case is simple to define ==> Simply compare it to the temperatures it normally runs at in the specific situation.    If you have a drive that typically runs at 32-33; and hits 40 during parity checks;  then if it's suddenly idling at higher temps, you should first confirm that it's not due to an obvious cause like clogged filters; excessive internal dust in the case; a failed fan; etc.    MOST of the time when drives start running a couple degrees warmer, that's the issue [in fact, that's how I determine when to clean my filters -- I'll notice the drives are idling 1-2 degrees warmer than usual].

 

But if a drive is running warmer with no apparent cause, that's a good indication that it's developed a bit of internal friction ... and if the temps start rising even more it's a good time to retire the drive [i use drives like this for backups].

 

But you're right about there being no absolute numbers to look at -- different drives will start out at different temperatures (even drives of the same make/model).    To know if it's "running hot", you have to know what it normally runs at.

 

 

 

[SuperW2]

As mrow noted, the PSU will probably work ... but Haswell based CPU's/chipsets require very precise power -- if you were buying a new PSU I"d suggest you only look at "Haswell certified" or "Haswell compliant" units.    Doesn't mean an older non-compliant unit won't work ... but as mrow noted, the only way to know for sure is to try it [This isn't really a Supermicro issue -- it's true of all Haswell boards].

 

So far so good with the new SuperMicro MB and my existing Power Supply... everything up and running on the new system and working well as far as I can tell (I did have to swap out one of my IcyDock 5in3's as there seemed to be and issue with one of the ports)

 

New Noctua Case and CPU fans and it's MUCH MUCH quieter.

 

I've setup my Plex, Sickbeard and SABNZB on it so far (taking those services off of my primary desktop), and will be looking into some of the Virtualization stuff as time permits.  I'm still running 5.0.5, and now that I have all my plug-ins setup and configured the way I want them, am less inclined to move to 6.x until it's final (and I figure out how to backup all my settings for my plugins).

 

SW2

[garycase]

Sounds good.  Not a bad plan to stay with v5 until v6 is a bit further down the evolutionary path.    The attraction of v6 with its built-in hypervisor is really nice; but I agree it's not a bad idea to stay with the stable version unless you have a 2nd "play" server (as many of us do) ... or, if you want to use it as your main server, be CERTAIN it's 100% backed up.

 

[SuperW2]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Chip-Processor-3-4-BX80646E31240V3/dp/B00D697PZK/

 

I ordered the E3-1230 v3...There was a bundle deal with the SM MB and didn't see a HUGE difference in the Passmark scores between the 1230 and the 1240.

 

Here is what I ordered today...

Intel Intel Xeon E3-1230V3 Haswell 3.3GHz 8MB L3 C

SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O ATX Server Motherboard LGA

SUPERMICRO AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 PCI-Express 2.0 x8 SATA x2

Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR x2

 

Note, to anyone looking at this motherboard, even though NewEgg (and other WebStores) indicate IPMI, looking at SuperMicro's site (and scouring the BIOS) it appears that it does NOT and they are using some generic language from SM on the overview (unless I'm really dense and just missing it).

 

SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O ATX Server Motherboard LGA

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182831

 

 

Although at the end of the day, not a huge deal breaker for me... I had an old PCI VGA card laying around, a 20ft VGA cable that reaches from the server to a monitor and I rarely need access directly to the server.

[eroz]

I'd go for the E3-1240 v3 versus the 1245 garycase listed. $20 cheaper and no useless integrated GPU.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Chip-Processor-3-4-BX80646E31240V3/dp/B00D697PZK/

 

I ordered the E3-1230 v3...There was a bundle deal with the SM MB and didn't see a HUGE difference in the Passmark scores between the 1230 and the 1240.

 

Here is what I ordered today...

Intel Intel Xeon E3-1230V3 Haswell 3.3GHz 8MB L3 C

SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O ATX Server Motherboard LGA

SUPERMICRO AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 PCI-Express 2.0 x8 SATA x2

Kingston 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR x2

 

Note, to anyone looking at this motherboard, even though NewEgg (and other WebStores) indicate IPMI, looking at SuperMicro's site (and scouring the BIOS) it appears that it does NOT and they are using some generic language from SM on the overview (unless I'm really dense and just missing it).

 

SUPERMICRO MBD-X10SAE-O ATX Server Motherboard LGA

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182831

 

 

Although at the end of the day, not a huge deal breaker for me... I had an old PCI VGA card laying around, a 20ft VGA cable that reaches from the server to a monitor and I rarely need access directly to the server.

Reading the manual says it does have it.  It might need to be enabled in BIOS first.  I think it might be "Activate Remote Assistance Process".

[SuperW2]

Reading the manual says it does have it.  It might need to be enabled in BIOS first.  I think it might be "Activate Remote Assistance Process".

 

There is only 2 mentions of IPMI anywhere in the Manual that I found...ftp://ftp.supermicro.com/CDR-X10-UP_1.02_for_Intel_X10_UP_platform/MANUALS/X10SAE.pdf

 

Page 65

Question: Why can't I recover the BIOS even when I’ve followed the instructions

in the user’s manual for the motherboard?

Answer: Please disable the IPMI jumper and try it again. For the jumper location,

please check Chapter 1.

 

Page 75

Energy Performance

Use this feature to select an appropriate fan setting to achieve the maximum system

performance (with maximum cooling) or maximum energy efficiency (with maximum

power saving). The fan speeds are controlled by the firmware management via IPMI

2.0. The options are Performance, Balanced Performance, Balanced Energy, and

Energy Efficient.

 

This SM page does not list IPMI under the X10SAE board but do a number of the other Server MB's...

http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/Xeon_X10.cfm?pg=MB

[eroz]

Reading the manual says it does have it.  It might need to be enabled in BIOS first.  I think it might be "Activate Remote Assistance Process".

 

There is only 2 mentions of IPMI anywhere in the Manual that I found...ftp://ftp.supermicro.com/CDR-X10-UP_1.02_for_Intel_X10_UP_platform/MANUALS/X10SAE.pdf

 

Page 65

Question: Why can't I recover the BIOS even when I’ve followed the instructions

in the user’s manual for the motherboard?

Answer: Please disable the IPMI jumper and try it again. For the jumper location,

please check Chapter 1.

 

Page 75

Energy Performance

Use this feature to select an appropriate fan setting to achieve the maximum system

performance (with maximum cooling) or maximum energy efficiency (with maximum

power saving). The fan speeds are controlled by the firmware management via IPMI

2.0. The options are Performance, Balanced Performance, Balanced Energy, and

Energy Efficient.

Here found this wiki.

Intel Active Management Technology (AMT) provides similar functionality to IPMI.  AMT is not intended to be used by itself; it is intended to be used with a software management application.[1] It gives a management application (and thus, the system administrator who uses it) better access to the PC down the wire, in order to remotely and securely do tasks that are difficult or sometimes impossible when working on a PC that does not have remote functionalities built into it.

 

So no true IPMI.....