unRAID 6 on Hyper-V...where does it stand?

[JimPhreak]

As I sit here struggling with configuring my new ESXi server (some issues related to unRAID, some not), I can't help but wonder how well unRAID does/can work under Hyper-V since that would solve a lot of my current hardware compatibility issues.

 

I've searched around but haven't really found anyone posting much information about getting unRAID 6 working on Hyper-V host.  Has anyone gotten this working with some success?

[uldise]

As I sit here struggling with configuring my new ESXi server (some issues related to unRAID, some not), I can't help but wonder how well unRAID does/can work under Hyper-V since that would solve a lot of my current hardware compatibility issues.

 

I've searched around but haven't really found anyone posting much information about getting unRAID 6 working on Hyper-V host.  Has anyone gotten this working with some success?

 

i tried setup free Hyper-v on my test server to compare with esxi and i have no luck at all with them - looks like pure MS Xenserver gets to me more better result.

[garycase]

To my knowledge no one has successfully installed UnRAID on Hyper-V.  I tried a couple years ago; and there were several threads with folks trying this as well ... but it simply didn't (and I suspect still does not) work.

 

It WOULD be REALLY nice if it worked 

[JimPhreak]

To my knowledge no one has successfully installed UnRAID on Hyper-V.  I tried a couple years ago; and there were several threads with folks trying this as well ... but it simply didn't (and I suspect still does not) work.

 

It WOULD be REALLY nice if it worked 

 

Do you recall what some of the issues were?  Is it guest OS drivers?

[jonp]

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=33151.0

 

So we included guest driver support for it, asked folks to provide feedback, and all we heard was crickets.

[garycase]

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=33151.0

 

So we included guest driver support for it, asked folks to provide feedback, and all we heard was crickets.

 

You're right => that thread went very quiet.  I just added a request for some status from the two guys who were actively trying to get it working on Hyper-V.  They didn't respond to you in January, so not sure a follow-up will have any better results ... but doesn't hurt to try 

[JimPhreak]

If I can't get my ESXi host to play nice over the next few days I'll give Hyper-V a serious run and see what kind of results I get.

[smdion]

If I can't get my ESXi host to play nice over the next few days I'll give Hyper-V a serious run and see what kind of results I get.

 

I have it up and running easily on ESXi.. shouldn't be too hard for you

[JimPhreak]

If I can't get my ESXi host to play nice over the next few days I'll give Hyper-V a serious run and see what kind of results I get.

 

I have it up and running easily on ESXi.. shouldn't be too hard for you

 

I've got unRAID working fine now on esxi but I've got other bigger issues with regard to my esxi server that is making me consider trying Hyper-V.

[JimPhreak]

I'm reading conflicting information with regard to hardware passthrough on Hyper-V.  Some say it can be done, some say it can't. 

 

This has gotten me thinking about Storage Spaces as an alternative option.  I assume I'll get some push back on this considering this is an unRAID forum but I'm wondering if anyone can speak to their own experience with Storage Spaces on Server 2012 and how it might compare to unRAID.  Considering all my workstations at home are Windows (unRAID is the only non-Windows OS I run), using a Windows file server with NTFS for permissions doesn't sound like a terrible idea.  My main concerns are write speed to my 8TB Seagate shingled drives and the ability to spin down disks.

 

Can anyone speak on these issues?

[bkastner]

I'm reading conflicting information with regard to hardware passthrough on Hyper-V.  Some say it can be done, some say it can't. 

 

This has gotten me thinking about Storage Spaces as an alternative option.  I assume I'll get some push back on this considering this is an unRAID forum but I'm wondering if anyone can speak to their own experience with Storage Spaces on Server 2012 and how it might compare to unRAID.  Considering all my workstations at home are Windows (unRAID is the only non-Windows OS I run), using a Windows file server with NTFS for permissions doesn't sound like a terrible idea.  My main concerns are write speed to my 8TB Seagate shingled drives and the ability to spin down disks.

 

Can anyone speak on these issues?

 

I can.... Storage Spaces sucks. And this is coming from a huge Microsoft / Windows fan - and I work for a Microsoft services partner.

 

I really wanted to like Storage Spaces, but there are too many limitations.

 

Specifically, RAID sets are not easily expandable. If you create a 5 disk array in Storage Spaces and want to add more disks, you need to add another 5 disk array. You can't just add one disk. So, you could start with a 3 disk array, and then when you need more space, add 3 more (which is at least semi-reasonable). The limitation here is that it will create another RAID 5 array, so one of those 3 disks you added will be parity. The same with the next 3, and the next 3.

 

So you are stuck with either creating a large disk array to minimize the disks dedicated to parity - but you have to add huge disk sets. Or you create small arrays, but waste way more disks with parity.

 

If you are power conscious, you also can not have individual disks spin down. Since it's a RAID set all disks are up and running (this matters less to me than some, but worth pointing out).

 

Basically, it's just not nearly as flexible as UnRAID. I built a Storage Space for the same reason you are thinking of it, but once I realized how limited I was, I moved my data off, and rebuilt everything under UnRAID.

 

It's great you can use random disks for Storage Spaces, but it's still too restricting to be really usable in a home environment (unless you can create a disk array that will meet all your future needs and you will not need to add new disks down the road).

 

[JimPhreak]

I'm reading conflicting information with regard to hardware passthrough on Hyper-V.  Some say it can be done, some say it can't. 

 

This has gotten me thinking about Storage Spaces as an alternative option.  I assume I'll get some push back on this considering this is an unRAID forum but I'm wondering if anyone can speak to their own experience with Storage Spaces on Server 2012 and how it might compare to unRAID.  Considering all my workstations at home are Windows (unRAID is the only non-Windows OS I run), using a Windows file server with NTFS for permissions doesn't sound like a terrible idea.  My main concerns are write speed to my 8TB Seagate shingled drives and the ability to spin down disks.

 

Can anyone speak on these issues?

 

I can.... Storage Spaces sucks. And this is coming from a huge Microsoft / Windows fan - and I work for a Microsoft services partner.

 

I really wanted to like Storage Spaces, but there are too many limitations.

 

Specifically, RAID sets are not easily expandable. If you create a 5 disk array in Storage Spaces and want to add more disks, you need to add another 5 disk array. You can't just add one disk. So, you could start with a 3 disk array, and then when you need more space, add 3 more (which is at least semi-reasonable). The limitation here is that it will create another RAID 5 array, so one of those 3 disks you added will be parity. The same with the next 3, and the next 3.

 

So you are stuck with either creating a large disk array to minimize the disks dedicated to parity - but you have to add huge disk sets. Or you create small arrays, but waste way more disks with parity.

 

If you are power conscious, you also can not have individual disks spin down. Since it's a RAID set all disks are up and running (this matters less to me than some, but worth pointing out).

 

Basically, it's just not nearly as flexible as UnRAID. I built a Storage Space for the same reason you are thinking of it, but once I realized how limited I was, I moved my data off, and rebuilt everything under UnRAID.

 

It's great you can use random disks for Storage Spaces, but it's still too restricting to be really usable in a home environment (unless you can create a disk array that will meet all your future needs and you will not need to add new disks down the road).

 

Thank you for your feedback.  This is the kind of information I need to hear.

 

Given this fact and the fact that it doesn't look like you can pass through an entire storage controller in Hyper-V, it's no shock why no one on here has taken the Hyper-V plunge like I am considering.

[garycase]

I don't think the issue of not being able to pass through a controller is all that significant => you can pass through as many physical disks as you want [they just have to be set Offline in the host and then attached to a virtual controller in the VM].    Performance is still native, so all should be well from that perspective.

 

If I recall correctly from previous attempts to do this, it's getting the USB flash drive passed through in a manner that UnRAID "sees" it okay that's been the issue.  But it's been quite a while since anyone's tried this.

 

The last time I tried to set this up for a friend who didn't want a separate box, we ended up just using an Areca controller with a RAID-6 array for his primary storage.    That actually works VERY well ... MUCH faster read/write speeds than UnRAID, dual fault-tolerance, and still spins down the drives when not in use (although they're all spun up/down as a group of course).    I doubt you could use Archive drives like this, however, and I DO like the more flexible spin up/down of UnRAID, which rarely has all drives spinning.

 

I don't have a system I can try this on at the moment [Not enough extra disks in my wife's PC, which is the only one I have handy with Hyper-V].    Hopefully you'll find a way to get it working and share  :)

 

I'm not sure how simple it might be, but at least UnRAID now has the guest driver support that it needs (according to JonP):

In case folks didn't know, this was included in unraid 6 beta 12.

[JimPhreak]

I don't think the issue of not being able to pass through a controller is all that significant => you can pass through as many physical disks as you want [they just have to be set Offline in the host and then attached to a virtual controller in the VM].    Performance is still native, so all should be well from that perspective.

 

If I recall correctly from previous attempts to do this, it's getting the USB flash drive passed through in a manner that UnRAID "sees" it okay that's been the issue.  But it's been quite a while since anyone's tried this.

 

The last time I tried to set this up for a friend who didn't want a separate box, we ended up just using an Areca controller with a RAID-6 array for his primary storage.    That actually works VERY well ... MUCH faster read/write speeds than UnRAID, dual fault-tolerance, and still spins down the drives when not in use (although they're all spun up/down as a group of course).    I doubt you could use Archive drives like this, however, and I DO like the more flexible spin up/down of UnRAID, which rarely has all drives spinning.

 

I don't have a system I can try this on at the moment [Not enough extra disks in my wife's PC, which is the only one I have handy with Hyper-V].    Hopefully you'll find a way to get it working and share  :)

 

I'm not sure how simple it might be, but at least UnRAID now has the guest driver support that it needs (according to JonP):

In case folks didn't know, this was included in unraid 6 beta 12.

 

From what I've been hearing from someone who used Hyper-V for this very purpose (but SnapRAID instead of uunRAID), even though you can technically still present the drives natively to Windows, smart features will not work and hdparm will not work to spin down disks.

[garycase]

... smart features will not work and hdparm will not work to spin down disks.

 

Ahh ... I could live without the SMART features (easy enough to check them occasionally through the host); but no spindown is definitely NOT good.

 

Assuming that's still the case in the latest Hyper-V version this is a pretty severe issue.

 

[JimPhreak]

... smart features will not work and hdparm will not work to spin down disks.

 

Ahh ... I could live without the SMART features (easy enough to check them occasionally through the host); but no spindown is definitely NOT good.

 

Assuming that's still the case in the latest Hyper-V version this is a pretty severe issue.

 

Yea, the disk spins downs are a huge reason why I use unRAID over some other alternatives.

[smdion]

I am in the process of saving up for a nice RAID card, because I am currently passing thru the harddrives as Mapped Raw LUNs in ESXi and can confirm no smart/spin down

[JimPhreak]

I am in the process of saving up for a nice RAID card, because I am currently passing thru the harddrives as Mapped Raw LUNs in ESXi and can confirm no smart/spin down

 

You don't need anything much.  You can use something like an M1015 to pass through the entire controller to ESXi.  Unfortunately you can't do that in Hyper-V.

[garycase]

Agree => since you're not actually using the RAID card as anything except a bunch of SATA ports, you can use some pretty inexpensive cards, since  you can simply pass through the entire card in ESXi.  It's a shame you can't do that in Hyper-V.

 

Jim => it'd still be cool if you could try simply running UnRAID in Hyper-V so we know if it CAN run ... even without disk spindown.

 

[JimPhreak]

Agree => since you're not actually using the RAID card as anything except a bunch of SATA ports, you can use some pretty inexpensive cards, since  you can simply pass through the entire card in ESXi.  It's a shame you can't do that in Hyper-V.

 

Jim => it'd still be cool if you could try simply running UnRAID in Hyper-V so we know if it CAN run ... even without disk spindown.

 

I'll see what I can do Gary.  It's tough because I run my router/firewall (pfSense) and Media Server (Plex) on my VM server so every moment that's down means my server is offline and that means a lot of unhappy people.  But I will try to find a good time to work on this as I'm curious myself.

 

I may even test something like Proxmox (built on KVM) as you can do hardware passthrough there, it's got a pretty simple interface, and there are use cases of people getting hte 10GbE NICs working on it unlike ESXi.

[enetec]

...

If I recall correctly from previous attempts to do this, it's getting the USB flash drive passed through in a manner that UnRAID "sees" it okay that's been the issue.  But it's been quite a while since anyone's tried this

...

 

Yes, this seems to be the main issue on Virtualbox too... https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=37687.0

 

Some here seem to have fine working systems on ESXi using Plop to boot from USB, but this doesn't work fine on Virtualbox too... 

[smdion]

...

If I recall correctly from previous attempts to do this, it's getting the USB flash drive passed through in a manner that UnRAID "sees" it okay that's been the issue.  But it's been quite a while since anyone's tried this

...

 

Yes, this seems to be the main issue on Virtualbox too... https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=37687.0

 

Some here seem to have fine working systems on ESXi using Plop to boot from USB, but this doesn't work fine on Virtualbox too... 

 

A few of us are also using VMDKs with the unRAID software, because of slow boot issues with PLOP.  Not sure what magic was done there, but it works great (except for the auto update feature).

[uldise]

A few of us are also using VMDKs with the unRAID software, because of slow boot issues with PLOP.  Not sure what magic was done there, but it works great (except for the auto update feature).

 

With new unassigned disk plugin update process with VMDK is much easier now

update with unRAID GUI, then mount your VMDK, and copy new files over and you are done..

[smdion]

A few of us are also using VMDKs with the unRAID software, because of slow boot issues with PLOP.  Not sure what magic was done there, but it works great (except for the auto update feature).

 

With new unassigned disk plugin update process with VMDK is much easier now

update with unRAID GUI, then mount your VMDK, and copy new files over and you are done..

 

.. you can mount the VMDKs thru that.  Awesome.

[uldise]

 

.. you can mount the VMDKs thru that.  Awesome.

 

Yes, you can, look at this plugin thread (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=38635.0), you can't mount VMDKs with first releases but it's corrected now by the author. thanks again to gfjardim for this great plugin